LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Kieran_Frost]

I think there is a difference between Marvel printing a letter and Marvel advocating for said letter's point. I imagine that they received far worse letters at the time which they did not print. The letter-writer, Aaron Gore, while definitely prejudiced, isn't really "expressing vile hatred." This was probably one of the few letters from the "other side" where the person had anything close to a rational thought, misguided as we may think it is.

And I think that there is plenty of reason to print letters like this, even if only to show people how bizarre people sound when they try to justify their prejudice or bigotry. To me, a letter like this can help more than a letter praising the Hulkling/Wiccan relationship because anyone who's "in the middle", so to speak, might read that letter and think "wow, I don't want to be on that guy's side".

When someone proudly calls them self "anti-gay" and labels homosexuality as a "character flaw" they are full of hate. And I consider homophobia vile. So "vile hatred" seems very apt. I'm done using kid gloves for bigots. It is time to call a spade a spade!

[NexusTenebrare]

The community forum had a thread about whether characters should have PTSD, someone suggested Peter Parker's whole life was a PSTD trigger.

Peter Parker is actually a character I would consider an exception to the rule.
He was actually shown badly suffering from the things that happened to him. I remember quite a few times that he was very broken psychologically. Of course the fact that he had at one time four books a month devoted to him alone allowed for more psychological exploration than the average superhero comic.

[America / Bucky / Russia]

I guess I shouldn't just assume everyone knows what I know but it's always interesting when something like that happens. The new writers for Wonder Woman didn't know she had a gay following until taking on the title. I'm like "whaaaaa?"

I didn't know she had a gay following until I read up on the Heinberg run! Now I've been reading some Denny O'Neil Diana Prince: Wonder Woman I'm like "yeah, gonna add to that gay following."

The letter-writer ABR posted thinks we are over represented yet people still seemed surprised to see us. LOL

Overrepresentation made me laugh. Two gay characters dating plus a girl in Runaways come to mind as 'active gay characters in 2005'. Overrepresentation my ass.

Well even if it's canon they sometimes forget and draw guys looking at girls. I guess I can hope that most writers would know better.

Get me to write, Marvel. My canon will be perfect.
*and the script very, very overdue

When someone proudly calls them self "anti-gay" and labels homosexuality as a "character flaw" they are full of hate.

It's a character strength.

[hawkeyefan]

When someone proudly calls them self "anti-gay" and labels homosexuality as a "character flaw" they are full of hate. And I consider homophobia vile. So "vile hatred" seems very apt. I'm done using kid gloves for bigots. It is time to call a spade a spade!

Oh, I'm not defending his stance; I think it's definitely an example of bigotry. I was defending Marvel's decision to print that letter. I don't think that unpopular opinions should be silenced or ignored, whether I agree with them or not.

They don't really still print letters, but Brevoort will post some comments and questions from fans that are much more hate filled than that. And he does it not because he agrees, but instead to show how stupid those folks sound.

[Michael P]

Not sure if I've posted this in the thread before, but here's an interesting letter from Young Avengers (v1) #7.

I remember that one. The overwhelming response to it, both from the Marvel staffer who wrote the letter column, and from numerous fans in subsequent columns, was "You're dead wrong." So there's that, at least.

[legion_quest]

Not sure if I've posted this in the thread before, but here's an interesting letter from Young Avengers (v1) #7.

What an interesting letter.

One the one hand, what a tool for thinking that homosexuality if a flaw.....but on the other, I kinda respect him for stating outright he's a bigot and then going on to say that he's still going to read anyway and has found his own, granted wrong and generally insulting way to get over it and still find enjoyment from the title.

His view is wrong, but his approach at least is somewhat more refreshing than just 'rabble rabble rabble'

[Tiamatty]

Overrepresentation made me laugh. Two gay characters dating plus a girl in Runaways come to mind as 'active gay characters in 2005'. Overrepresentation my ass.

In fairness, he did say comics were the exception to the overrepresentation of gays.

While we're on the subject of anti-gay letters, though, I remember Avengers Academy also printed a letter from a guy who said he was dropping the book over Striker being gay. The guy wrote his letter in a polite and reasonable manner, so Christos Gage gave a similarly polite and reasonable response, and some later letters were the same.

[Platinius]

Proof that one can be bigoted and not be a huge @ss at the same time. I don't know if that is a good thing...

[Venomous Mask]

In fairness, he did say comics were the exception to the overrepresentation of gays.

While we're on the subject of anti-gay letters, though, I remember Avengers Academy also printed a letter from a guy who said he was dropping the book over Striker being gay. The guy wrote his letter in a polite and reasonable manner, so Christos Gage gave a similarly polite and reasonable response, and some later letters were the same.

I remember reading a letter about the death of Jim Wilson in The Incredible Hulk who felt that homosexuality was an absolute abomination and that comics should not in the slightest deal with the issues surrounding it. The response that the writers gave to it was quite mature.

[Silvermoth]

Over representation? How can you have over representation when there's like 5 out of thousands and thousands of marvel characters who are gay and none that are openly transgender?

Such arguments are the works of fools.

[NexusTenebrare]

Over representation? How can you have over representation when there's like 5 out of thousands and thousands of marvel characters who are gay and none that are openly transgender?

Such arguments are the works of fools.

He said gay people are over-represented in every other media (which I strongly disagree with) and that comics were actually the exception.

[Fokken]

He said gay people are over-represented in every other media (which I strongly disagree with) and that comics were actually the exception.

I believe the reason this person feels they're "over-represented" is simply based on the attention(spot light?) these characters get, upon their introduction. Or at least around when that letter was written?
Its so common for gay characters to have a coming out story or a "reveal" story, focusing a lot of energy around a plot to illustrate that process for audiences/readers/etc. From an anti-homosexual stance, having an episode or issue or movie or whatever focus on a gay character -- because of the "unique" factor -- comes across as pushing an agenda or making a political statement or whatever other silly paranoia springs to mind. Its not "common" so therefor its intentions are suspect.

Whereas nowadays, more and more, characters are being included among ensemble casts (in whatever medium) already defined (for lack of a better word) and not on a journey of discovery or struggling with identity and self acceptance. Scandal and How to get away with Murder immediately spring to mind as being tv shows that have homosexual characters. Its not like back in the day when Dawson's Creek had to have a 4 episode arc of "coming out" and then a lengthy season long subsequent journey of navigating the "gay experience".

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Someone ordered a playable Wiccan?

[Starleafgirl]

In fairness, he did say comics were the exception to the overrepresentation of gays.

While we're on the subject of anti-gay letters, though, I remember Avengers Academy also printed a letter from a guy who said he was dropping the book over Striker being gay. The guy wrote his letter in a polite and reasonable manner, so Christos Gage gave a similarly polite and reasonable response, and some later letters were the same.

I think it's idiotic for anyone to say gays are over-represented in any form of media. It's like saying blacks are over-represented on TV or women are over-represented in ... I can't even think of an idiotic example for that one.

I thought that Gage letter was great. I'm not sure if Gage's letter was the one I was thinking of or if PAD ever wrote a response like that in the letters column, too...

Someone ordered a playable Wiccan?

Heck, yeah! I was just about to post this, lol.

The costume isn't available yet, but it's by TheDink, the lady who also brought us Shirtless Gambit* (*not the official name...) which I just got in-game for my Gambit today, hehe!


Bigger: http://i.imgur.com/EGmu12e.jpg


Bigger: http://i.imgur.com/D1AAJKk.jpg

[America / Bucky / Russia]

Someone ordered a playable Wiccan?

Sorry, that's for me.
... hold on. Where are my fries?

I think it's idiotic for anyone to say gays are over-represented in any form of media. It's like saying blacks are over-represented on TV or women are over-represented in ... I can't even think of an idiotic example for that one.

Did you know that trans are overrepresented because one Marvel character is trans?

The costume isn't available yet, but it's by TheDink, the lady who also brought us Shirtless Gambit* (*not the official name...) which I just got in-game for my Gambit today, hehe!

Bigger: http://i.imgur.com/D1AAJKk.jpg

... So, you're basically saying I should download the game now?