LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Fokken]

Has Daken every said, explicitly, that he's bisexual?

[Kieran_Frost]

Has Daken every said, explicitly, that he's bisexual?

No, but he's made it graphically clear he finds men (numerous men) sexually appealing.

[Citizen Chaos]

Thanks for taking up the time to create this thread, Kieran. LGBT heroes always deserve some love, and I long for the day when we can see a big name character come out of the closet.

Out of everyone on the poll, while it was a tough call to choose between Billy and Teddy.... yeah, I had to give my vote to Hulkling as my favorite. I've been out of comics for a few years, and while I've yet to pick up Kieron Gillen's Young Avengers run, I really felt for the guy, with everything he had to go through in Allan Heinberg's time writing him. Losing his Mom, feeling like a true outsider, realizing your life is a lie... I obviously can't fully relate in that aspect, but at the same time, he has such wonderful romantic chemistry with Wiccan. Definitely a fantastic written couple that gives me hope for other writers to introduce a sweet romance like that.

[Tiamatty]

I absolutely agree that they SHOULD show her bisexual side more often or more clearly than they do. No argument at all there. I'm just saying that her bisexual side has already been established--so having fans try to deny it just makes Marvel's tendency to overlook it even worse.

Granted. To be perfectly honest, I had forgotten about her relationship with Forge when I made my previous statement--brain fart. However, I would still argue that Mystique's relationship with Destiny showed an equally strong emotional attachment (if not stronger ) as she had with Forge...and certainly a healthier one than she had with Iceman.

Which IS both sexes. Destiny is a woman. I get what you're saying, but the fact that we have only seen Mystique with one woman does not mean she has not been attracted to other women. As noted before Sean McKeever acknowledged her as a bisexual character when he wrote MYSTIQUE and said he had plans to introduce a new female love interest. Its a shame that the book got cancelled before he did so, since it would render this discussion moot....

It was only after Destiny's death that they were allowed to state in very clear-cut terms what the relationship was, that's true. But it WAS discussed on-panel, and displayed on-panel earlier than that. As you alluded to, there was Mystique's "leman", which means "lover". Claremont also wrote a MARVEL FANFARE story which had Mystique talk about her feelings for Destiny, and showed the two of them dancing romantically. Destiny and Mystique were basically another Northstar--not officially "out" due to Comics Code restrictions, but hinted at and implied as heavily as possible.

To meet the criteria of "first LGBT solo star" the character must meet 2 criteria: is he/she LGBT and was he/she the first to have a solo book? By the actual definition of the words "first LGBT solo star" that is the only valid criteria. And by those criteria, the answer is Mystique--as long as we're talking solo ONGOING book. If we're counting miniseries and solo lead features then it would either go to Northstar, or even to Paradox who starred in two issues of MARVEL PREVIEW way back in 1980.

I agree with you that Daken's solo book was a VERY important step for LGBT representation at Marvel, and it certainly deserves credit for being the first to do several things. But to say it was Marvel's first solo series starring an LGBT character....no offense, my friend, but I think that is more a question of you playing favourites for Daken than it is an honest assessment of which LGBT character had a solo book first.

I'm inclined towards Death of the Author. Authorial intent matters less than what's on the page. I should not need to read supplemental interviews to get the full story. McKeever, Claremont, whoever - they can say what they want, but the fact remains that, using strictly what's been shown on-panel, it is not at all clear that Mystique is bisexual. She's never identified as such. She's shown sexual and romantic interest in countless men, but only ever in a single woman. Is she interested in other woman? Who the hell knows, at this point? We've never seen any indication, at all, ever, in any book, that she has even the slightest actual interest in other women. "Straight with an exception" is an orientation that exists along the spectrum, and right now, that is exactly as likely as her being bisexual.

[Tiamatty]

Daken constantly flirted with Bullseye in Dark Avengers, and he hooked up with a couple guys in his own solo title. And he also slept with women, of course. Daken is definitely bisexual.

[Marvell2100]

Somebody clue me in on Moondragon. Is she alive and is she still a dragon?

[Mutant God]

Somebody clue me in on Moondragon. Is she alive and is she still a dragon?

I believe she is alive but I'm not sure if she still has dragon powers but I will say no.

Also I believe in one comic Mystique tries to seduce Storm.

[Tiamatty]

Somebody clue me in on Moondragon. Is she alive and is she still a dragon?

She's still alive, and she's not a dragon. At least, as of her last appearance.

[Dermie]

It would make the discussion moot, I agree; but sadly that never happened. While I think a writer's comments outside a comic is helpful, it's not cannon.

True enough, but it does indicate that Marvel's writers (or at least some of them) view her character as bisexual, in accordance with the intentions of her creator. Its not on-panel clarification, true, but its something.

Stonewall (for example) has never been confirmed as gay in comics, only in an interview by Hickman. Which (to me) is as disingenuous as JK Rowling outing Dumbledore in an interview after the final Harry Potter book.

I've always been a bit surprised at the level of backlash over that. I mean, yes, ABSOLUTELY it would have been preferable for Dumbledore's orientation to have been made clearer in the book. But when Rowling made that statement in the interview, I did not take that as new information--I took it as confirmation of subtext I had already felt was there when I was reading the book. When reading the stuff about Dumbledore's youth and friendship with Grindlewald, I had always felt she was implying something gay there, so I have always been surprised at how many people say it was something she made up after the fact. I realize it was subtle and would slip past a lot of readers....but I didn't think it was that subtle that people would deny that it was there once it was pointed out.

Stonewall, on the other hand, I agree had no hints or subtext--aside from his codename, which was unintentional on Hickman's part. Hopefully his alleged LGBT Avenger(s) will fare a bit better...either under him, or under Spencer in AVENGERS WORLD.

I'm inclined towards Death of the Author. Authorial intent matters less than what's on the page. I should not need to read supplemental interviews to get the full story.

I agree with that, at least up to an extent. The on-panel, confirmed-in-continuity material is the ultimate bottom line. But the behind-the-scenes info is worth taking into consideration for what it does bring to the table. It shouldn't take the place of in-story content though.

[Sutekh]

Somebody clue me in on Moondragon. Is she alive and is she still a dragon?

Heather was last seen in Guardians of the Galaxy, IIRC (pre-Bendis run), dating Phyla-Vell. She's back to being a hot super-telepath / super-telekinetic, and a snarky sort of good-guy.

[Custodes]

Boy.....hard vote. I placed Shatterstar number one for political reasons ( to annoy Rob Liefeld...I admit.) But, he (Shatterstar) is still pretty cool. Glad he got the haircut. Wiccan and Hulkling next and Richtor close 4th. Don't know what to think about Loki...super cool though.

Moondragon, ornery as she can be has always been a favorite. Mystique ....a favorite villain. Don't know if a shapeshifter like her and Hulking (awesome as they are)count though.

Yes, loved Peter Davids' rendering of Shatterstar and Longshots' relationship (and I do not mean romance)at the end of X-Factor last run.And his use of gay characters in general. Kudos to him.

[Tiamatty]

Stonewall, on the other hand, I agree had no hints or subtext--aside from his codename, which was unintentional on Hickman's part. Hopefully his alleged LGBT Avenger(s) will fare a bit better...either under him, or under Spencer in AVENGERS WORLD.

I'm becoming doubtful it'll show up in World. Most of the new characters have already had their spotlight issues come and go. There's still Nightmask, but he comes across as being a bit above it all, so I'm not sure how likely he is to be gay or bisexual.

Starbrand and Hyperion struck me as the most likely candidates, but Starbrand's spotlight makes that feel less likely.

I'm still annoyed that, two years in, we still haven't actually gotten even a clue about who the LGBT character is. I honestly wonder if it's actually going to be revealed on-panel, or if Hickman's going to just leave it to be revealed in an interview again.

Out of curiosity, has Hickman ever had an openly LGBT character in any of his works? I haven't read his creator-owned stuff, so I don't know if he's had any LGBT characters in any of those.

[Custodes]

I'm becoming doubtful it'll show up in World. Most of the new characters have already had their spotlight issues come and go. There's still Nightmask, but he comes across as being a bit above it all, so I'm not sure how likely he is to be gay or bisexual.

Starbrand and Hyperion struck me as the most likely candidates, but Starbrand's spotlight makes that feel less likely.

I'm still annoyed that, two years in, we still haven't actually gotten even a clue about who the LGBT character is. I honestly wonder if it's actually going to be revealed on-panel, or if Hickman's going to just leave it to be revealed in an interview again.

Out of curiosity, has Hickman ever had an openly LGBT character in any of his works? I haven't read his creator-owned stuff, so I don't know if he's had any LGBT characters in any of those.

Did he say it was a guy? Captain Universe seems all Gaea/Motherly on a bigger scale. :-)

[Kieran_Frost]

Okay, I think this debate has gone on long enough; and truth be told something Dermie said really struck home: "it was a baby step." I think, in 2014, where we have openly LGBT characters in mainstream comics, main cast members in one of America's most popular comedy series are gay and adopted a child AND the series finale (and first ever 2-part episode) will be their Wedding, Ellen hosts THE definitive daytime chat show, many states have gay marriage, as do many countries (holla Britain!!!)... I think I've got spoilt. I think I have been forgetting how HUGE these achievements are, when back in 1991 there was an official policy at Marvel that said: NO GAYS!!! I forgot that when Queer as Folk first aired in the UK in 1995, despite being very late, it was still massively controversial. I forget that Ellen (now adored) faced career suicide after coming out in her show (my friends remember their moms not letting them watch it anymore).

And, if you look at media, nearly always the first step involves a female LGBT. I think it's more comfortable for people to start with that, I don't know? But lesbian (or female bisexual) characters nearly always began the major appearances in TV or film. Often it was coded, or vague... but it was a VITAL baby step. And whether I consider Mystique bisexual or not, she WAS in a very confirmed, loving relationship with a woman. LGBT means more than "lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender." It encompasses the whole spectrum; and Mystique DOES fall into that, even if only 1 on the Kinsey Scale.

So with that in mind: LIST TIME!!! Help me out, add what you want, I've already put this in the 2nd OP, and will add to it when others make suggestions.

LGBT ON-GOING SERIES
(2005) Mystique #1-24 [MARVEL'S FIRST LGBT ON-GOING]
(2009) Dark Wolverine vol. 1 #75-90
(2010) Daken: Dark Wolverine vol. 2 #1-23
(2014) Loki: Agent of Asgard #1-PRESENT

LGBT MINI-SERIES
(1994) Northstar #1-4
(1996) Sabertooth & Mystique #1-4
(2010) Avengers: Children's Crusade #1-12 [nom. 2011 GLAAD Media Award] [nom. 2012 GLAAD Media Award]

IMPORTANT LGBT COMICS
(2003) X-Statix #1-26 [nom. 2003 GLAAD Media Award]
(2005) Young Avengers vol. 1 #1-12 [AWARDED 2006 GLAAD MEDIA AWARD]
(2006) X-factor vol. 3 #43-50/200-259 [nom. 2010 GLAAD Media Award] [AWARDED 2011 GLAAD MEDIA AWARD] [nom. 2012 GLAAD Media Award]
(2012) Astonishing X-men #48-68 [nom. 2013 GLAAD Media Award]
(2013) Fearless Defenders #1-13 [nom. 2014 GLAAD Media Award]
(2013) Young Avengers vol. 2 #1-15 [AWARDED 2014 GLAAD MEDIA AWARD]

[Tiamatty]

Did he say it was a guy? Captain Universe seems all Gaea/Motherly on a bigger scale. :-)

Captain Universe herself would presumably be non-sexual. Her host, however, we know was a mother. That naturally doesn't rule out LGBT, but coupled with the fact that she's, um, actually crazy right now, I feel she is one of the less likely possibilities.