View Poll Results: Who is your favourite 616 Marvel LGBT character?

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  • ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]

    30 3.37%
  • BLING! [Roxanne ‘Roxy’ Washington]

    12 1.35%
  • CULLEN BLOODSTONE

    21 2.36%
  • DAKEN AKIHIRO

    47 5.29%
  • HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]

    49 5.51%
  • KARMA [Xi’an Coy Mahn]

    49 5.51%
  • KAROLINA DEAN

    47 5.29%
  • LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief

    77 8.66%
  • MOONDRAGON [Heather Douglas]

    46 5.17%
  • MYSTIQUE [Raven Darkholme]

    134 15.07%
  • NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier]

    69 7.76%
  • PRODIGY [David Alleyne]

    25 2.81%
  • RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]

    47 5.29%
  • SHATTERSTAR [Gaveedra-7]

    51 5.74%
  • WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan], the Demiurge

    185 20.81%
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  1. #211
    Mighty Member NexusTenebrare's Avatar
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    I'm still holding out hope for a Nightmask/Starbrand coupling, but I doubt it'll ever happen.
    I really got a vibe from them during the time that they were on the run from the Avengers.

  2. #212
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    I forgot to mention Shatterstar/Rictor is probably my favorite actual M/M couple, a lot more so than Billy and Teddy. Peter David writes them with such ease and such character and humor, I really hope he tackles a gay/lesbian couple in All-New X-Factor.

    I don't even follow Hickman's Avengers so I'm not really following the Nightmask/Starbrand couple. Avengers World is somewhat better due to the (limited) character focus at least, but there's something actually drawing me into the story. Plus while I like new gay characters, it's past time that Northstar, the biggest LBGT character at Marvel and possibly all of comics join the Avengers team.

    On a separate thought, wouldn't it be cool of Original Sins outed a B-Lister?

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaJay View Post
    I forgot to mention Shatterstar/Rictor is probably my favorite actual M/M couple, a lot more so than Billy and Teddy. Peter David writes them with such ease and such character and humor,
    I like how their 'drama' was realistic sorts of drama. Rahne questioning whether she'd done something wrong and somehow 'turned Rictor gay.' Strong Guy expressing his discomfort with the idea by making off-color jokes (that Shatterstar completely failed to get). "So, do you like Gladiator movies, 'Star?" "Apparently I do." Rictor having to address the notion that Shatterstar is discovering sexuality and not, specifically, gay, and has no real understanding of 'monogamy.'

    No 'My reality warper boy friend may have created me to be his perfect fantasy' or 'I ditched the responsibility of going home to rule my people and chose to remain on Earth, and so the Skrulls invaded Earth after arranging a Civil War between Earth's heroes and a ****ton of people died,' or 'my reality warper boyfriend just tried to resurrect my dead adoptive mother and it's another whacky Tuesday in Sunnydale.'

    While Karolina / Xavin also had some funkiness, at least some of their funkiness could serve as metaphor for more down to earth relationship issues. Xavin's shapeshifting / gender conforming with issues of one partner pretending to be something they're not to make the other happy, for instance.

  4. #214
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    My biggest problem with Billy/Teddy is that the relationship revolves around Billy. What drama/development Teddy has, it usually goes back to Billy in some sort of way, outside of the Skrull/Kree stuff.

    I do appreciate Billy and in some ways I don't mind him getting so much spotlight, mainly because it's nice to see someone not so completely butch be a badass hero. But in some ways I just feel a lot is handed to him without him actually developing to go along with it. His powers aren't even defined in any sort of way; I guess he's a mutant with the same probability-altering/magic combo that Wanda has but do we even see him studying magic? What does he do to deserve a guy like Teddy? How did they even meet? We need a flashback, unless I have some serious holes in my memory and they did do an origin story with him.

    Not to completely derail the thread, I noticed there's a lot of bisexual women at Marvel and while I like the fact that there's representation of bisexuals, I can't help but feel it's a straight male "thing" to glorify women who like women, but are still straight enough for them (hence all the conversation of Mystique only really doing something with one woman and having a lot of a male relationships).

  5. #215
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Don't forget the QUASAR miniseries starring Phyla-Vell from 2007--Marvel's first solo project with an out lesbian as the title character (and with her relationship being displayed on-panel).
    Also the two RAWHIDE KID miniseries from the MAX line.
    Ohhhh, excellent. Will add them too, thank-you

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Keep in mind that Hickman never promised to 'out' the character though--in fact, he specifically said that unless it became relevant to the plot, he had no intention to address it at all (a position I really disagree with). So, to be fair, Hickman warned us up front that he had no plans to out the character.
    This is a very fair point (in terms of Hickman's "obligation" to reveal who is LGBT) BUT... I think it's a cheap answer to "why are none of your cast LGBT?" Saying "one is... but I may never address it"; to me, I think you shouldn't make comments like that if you have no intention of revealing it. It's the cheapest form of tokenism; you get the "kudos" for having an LGBT character (or at-least side-step the question of "lack of LGBT") without ever having to worry about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegastorm View Post
    This thread is awesome. Me likey a lot.
    YEY!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by Draegwolf View Post
    there are a lot of characters that have been mentioned here that I actually rather like but I think my favorite has to be Shatterstar, just love the way Peter David handled him in X-Factor and really hope to see him pop up again sometime soon. Always liked his dynamic with Rictor, particularly when the latter would educate Star in all the random trivial pop culture references running around in the world. Hulking and Wiccan have always been enjoyable though for me it's always been more about what they are as characters than their relationship with one another. Anole is just a fun character to read about, particularly when he's paired up with Santos doing something stupid. I think that Marvel could probably expand on Lightspeed a bit more than they have but dont see it happening anytime in the imminant future which is a real shame. And Northstar is one of those character I think could probably be in charge of his own team, Alpha Flight, with a little work.
    I'd love to see Northstar take up a leadership role for Alpha Flight (or even an X-team). Did he lead the team when they went to Limbo to save Magik? Also, welcome to the thread.

  6. #216
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    QUESTION: who do you think are the most consistently supportive writers of LGBT characters at Marvel?

    I think Bendis and Liu should definitely be included, for their consistent use/creation of LGBT characters. Christos Gage has also written several different comics with LGBT characters. Who else?

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaJay View Post
    Plus while I like new gay characters, it's past time that Northstar, the biggest LBGT character at Marvel and possibly all of comics join the Avengers team.
    I'd love to see Northstar join.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaJay View Post
    On a separate thought, wouldn't it be cool of Original Sins outed a B-Lister?
    While I like the idea, I'm not sure "sin" would be the best way to do it; sends a bad message.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I like how their 'drama' was realistic sorts of drama. Rahne questioning whether she'd done something wrong and somehow 'turned Rictor gay.' Strong Guy expressing his discomfort with the idea by making off-color jokes (that Shatterstar completely failed to get). "So, do you like Gladiator movies, 'Star?" "Apparently I do." Rictor having to address the notion that Shatterstar is discovering sexuality and not, specifically, gay, and has no real understanding of 'monogamy.'
    While I really liked Rictor/Shatterstar, it didn't (for me) put Rahne in the best light. It made her a little unlikeable to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaJay View Post
    My biggest problem with Billy/Teddy is that the relationship revolves around Billy. What drama/development Teddy has, it usually goes back to Billy in some sort of way, outside of the Skrull/Kree stuff.

    I do appreciate Billy and in some ways I don't mind him getting so much spotlight, mainly because it's nice to see someone not so completely butch be a badass hero. But in some ways I just feel a lot is handed to him without him actually developing to go along with it. His powers aren't even defined in any sort of way; I guess he's a mutant with the same probability-altering/magic combo that Wanda has but do we even see him studying magic? What does he do to deserve a guy like Teddy? How did they even meet? We need a flashback, unless I have some serious holes in my memory and they did do an origin story with him.
    I always think it's a shame there is this (in my eyes false) opinion Hulkling gets no time to shine. In the first "season" of YA, Hulkling had a story arc (Wiccan didn't). Hulkling was the focus of the Young Avengers/Runaway: Secret Invasion mini too. I assume the idea that it's "only about Wiccan" is due to Avengers: Children's Crusade (since Gillen's "season" gave just as much time to Hulkling as Wiccan).

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaJay View Post
    Not to completely derail the thread, I noticed there's a lot of bisexual women at Marvel and while I like the fact that there's representation of bisexuals, I can't help but feel it's a straight male "thing" to glorify women who like women, but are still straight enough for them (hence all the conversation of Mystique only really doing something with one woman and having a lot of a male relationships).
    It is curious that all 3 LGBT solo stars have been bisexual... maybe it is "easier" to deal with/accept?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
    Iceman might as well embrace the "joke" and make it official, I still have hopes for his teen self after Bendis hinted he might be getting convinced about exploring his sexuality.
    It would be awesome!


    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
    And I'd like to see Loki as liberated as Daken was. While his new series has been great, his bisexuality has been barely shown so far. Mystique, too... even if at this point she's become a baby-making plot device.
    I just want Loki and Sigurd to get it on already!!!! That "tumble in the dumpster" was fun though... hee hee...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
    Still, Marvel is still missing a "big name" queer character on the scale of DC's Batwoman. While Northstar is their token gay, he's nowhere near her level in name recognition and neither are any of the teen characters or those who are part of a team. I don't know of any character that could fill the bill unless it was a new legacy character like Kamala Khan or Miles Morales.
    I don't know the full extent of DC's Batwoman, is she Barbara Gordon? Because while the name "Batwoman" is huge, many associate that with Gordon's daughter (films, cartoons); not with the LGBT star, surely?
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 06-14-2014 at 03:13 AM.

  7. #217
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    It is curious that all 3 LGBT solo stars have been bisexual... maybe it is "easier" to deal with/accept?
    Could be. It is also likely that it leaves them free to do use whoever catches their fancy in a romantic role. It may also be that in the cases of characters who've already had romantic relationships 'on panel', as well, that it makes it less a potential source of continuity nitpicking.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 06-14-2014 at 03:17 AM.

  8. #218
    Astonishing Member legion_quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    [SIZE=3]

    While I like the idea, I'm not sure "sin" would be the best way to do it; sends a bad message.

    I like the idea that we see someone who actually does see their sexuality as an issue, a 'sin,' who can't understand that no one else cares because they care so much.

    Then we can follow through them coming to terms with it about themselves, rather than just having an out character and the story being other's reactions.
    I will raise my throne above the Stars of God

  9. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    QUESTION: who do you think are the most consistently supportive writers of LGBT characters at Marvel?

    I think Bendis and Liu should definitely be included, for their consistent use/creation of LGBT characters. Christos Gage has also written several different comics with LGBT characters. Who else?
    PAD probably deserves to be mentioned there, too. And I'd say Chris Yost. His new X-Men run with Craig Kyle helped to elevate Anole a bit more, and his Scarlet Spider had a same-sex couple as supporting characters.

    While I really liked Rictor/Shatterstar, it didn't (for me) put Rahne in the best light. It made her a little unlikeable to me.
    I thought she was still likable. She's got that very strict upbringing. She's been raised to believe that homosexuality is a sin, and she actually doesn't have that much experience with it. So it makes sense that she would react the way she did, and she did get over it.

    I don't know the full extent of DC's Batwoman, is she Barbara Gordon? Because while the name "Batwoman" is huge, many associate that with Gordon's daughter (films, cartoons); not with the LGBT star, surely?
    Barbara is Batgirl. Batwoman is Kate Kane, a lesbian woman. From what I've heard, the book was fantastic until pretty recently, when the creative team left. They weren't allowed to let Batwoman marry her girlfriend (because DC isn't allowing any of its characters to be married right now, no matter who they are), and that seemed to just annoy them enough that they didn't want to do it any more.

    I would definitely argue that Batwoman is bigger than any of Marvel's LGBT stars. She's actually had a very successful solo run. She got huge amounts of press when she was first announced; far more than even Northstar's wedding got. She's definitely a pretty well-known character.

  10. #220
    Teenage Exorcist just another user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    QUESTION: who do you think are the most consistently supportive writers of LGBT characters at Marvel?
    Add Claremont to the list

  11. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by just another user View Post
    Add Claremont to the list
    Should we, though? His women are obviously all gay for each other, but it's all through subtext, and crosses all-too-often into fetishism. How often does he use openly LGBT characters? He used Karma in Mekanix, but even then, Karma was one of the few characters he created who he hadn't previously written as a lesbian, and it was someone else who added that level to her.

    So is Claremont really supportive of LGBT characters, or is he just a fetishist?

  12. #222
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legion_quest View Post
    I like the idea that we see someone who actually does see their sexuality as an issue, a 'sin,' who can't understand that no one else cares because they care so much.
    Then we can follow through them coming to terms with it about themselves, rather than just having an out character and the story being other's reactions.
    Hmmmm... I "could" see that working... I could also see it being trite/cliché. Though I do think quite a few heroes have struggled with their sexuality; Striker (and possibly Mercury) both recently explored this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    PAD probably deserves to be mentioned there, too. And I'd say Chris Yost. His new X-Men run with Craig Kyle helped to elevate Anole a bit more, and his Scarlet Spider had a same-sex couple as supporting characters.
    Good call, PAD's Rictor/Shatterstar was great; and didn't he out Genis-vel? Can't remember: did he have any LGBT characters in She-Hulk or Hulk?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    I would definitely argue that Batwoman is bigger than any of Marvel's LGBT stars. She's actually had a very successful solo run. She got huge amounts of press when she was first announced; far more than even Northstar's wedding got. She's definitely a pretty well-known character.
    While I don't think she's a major name in of herself, I DO agree she's probably more famous than an LGBT Marvel star. I mean who really are the LGBT Marvel stars? Wiccan, Northstar and Daken?

    Quote Originally Posted by just another user View Post
    Add Claremont to the list
    While basically all his women were "bisexual", did he out/create any LGBT males?

  13. #223
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Should we, though? His women are obviously all gay for each other, but it's all through subtext, and crosses all-too-often into fetishism. How often does he use openly LGBT characters? He used Karma in Mekanix, but even then, Karma was one of the few characters he created who he hadn't previously written as a lesbian, and it was someone else who added that level to her.

    So is Claremont really supportive of LGBT characters, or is he just a fetishist?
    Ah, beat me too it!

  14. #224

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    You know, come to think of it, has Claremont ever shown an openly LGBT relationship? Not just subtext, but actually kissing and ****? The closest was Mystique and Destiny. Other than those two, I genuinely can't think of any instances where two same-sex characters he wrote were clearly in a romantic relationship.

  15. #225
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Hmmmm... I "could" see that working... I could also see it being trite/cliché. Though I do think quite a few heroes have struggled with their sexuality; Striker (and possibly Mercury) both recently explored this.
    Not convinced at all about Mercury. And if her scene with Bling!, her coming out, that was realy badly done.


    Good call, PAD's Rictor/Shatterstar was great; and didn't he out Genis-vel? Can't remember: did he have any LGBT characters in She-Hulk or Hulk?
    She Hulk had a lesbian skrull friend: Jazinda, KL'rt daughter.
    In Hulk, Hector, a member of a Pantheon, was gay.

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