LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[mugiwara]

You know, come to think of it, has Claremont ever shown an openly LGBT relationship? Not just subtext, but actually kissing and ****? The closest was Mystique and Destiny. Other than those two, I genuinely can't think of any instances where two same-sex characters he wrote were clearly in a romantic relationship.

I don't remember any openly gay or lesbian couple in his stories. That said, I didn't read much of his last work at Marvel.

Still, he deserves some credit for the famous Larry Bodine story, done in 1986. Yes, it was again a mutant/gay metaphor, but it was a stunning story.
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chron...tants_45.shtml

[Dermie]

QUESTION: who do you think are the most consistently supportive writers of LGBT characters at Marvel?

I think Bendis and Liu should definitely be included, for their consistent use/creation of LGBT characters. Christos Gage has also written several different comics with LGBT characters. Who else?

I definately agree with those three.

Also, as others have mentioned, Peter David--PAD includes LGBT content in almost everything he writes, both in comics and novels.

I would also include Fabian Nicieza. He was very LGBT-inclusive even back before Marvel dropped the Comics Code and it was more 'taboo'. His NOMAS series had two different storylines dealing with gay characters, as well as transvestities; his T-BOLTS run had multiple LGBT characters, several of whom he outed; his CDP series didn't have anything explicitly gay but had lots of homoerotic subtext and provided a lot of the supporting evidence to Deadpool being bi; his GAMBIT series had Gambit kissing his shape-shifting male friend; hios CAPTAIN MARVEL series gave Genis an alien lover who was dual-gendered, etc.

[Tiamatty]

Not convinced at all about Mercury. And if her scene with Bling!, her coming out, that was realy badly done.

I don't think it was meant as Mercury coming out. I think it was meant as Mercury being open-minded enough to give it a try. I'm hoping it gets revisited soon, though.

I don't remember any openly gay or lesbian couple in his stories. That said, I didn't read much of his last work at Marvel.

Still, he deserves some credit for the famous Larry Bodine story, done in 1986. Yes, it was again a mutant/gay metaphor, but it was a stunning story.
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chron...tants_45.shtml

Yeah, that story was pretty spectacular.

[Kieran_Frost]

So the updated list of writers who include good LGBT representation in their comics at Marvel:
Brian Michael Bendis
Marjorie Liu
Christos Gage
Christopher Yost
Peter David
Fabian Nicieza
... maybe Chris Claremont

adding:
Brian Wood
Brian K. Vaughan

Not convinced at all about Mercury. And if her scene with Bling!, her coming out, that was realy badly done.

I don't think it was meant as Mercury coming out. I think it was meant as Mercury being open-minded enough to give it a try. I'm hoping it gets revisited soon, though..

I'm not sure that was her "coming out" but (as Tiamatty said) it was showing she is slowly coming to terms with the possible feelings she has (whatever that means for her). It's a slow build, and I like that (quite true to life).

She Hulk had a lesbian skrull friend: Jazinda, KL'rt daughter.
In Hulk, Hector, a member of a Pantheon, was gay.

Ah thank-you for this.

I definately agree with those three.
Also, as others have mentioned, Peter David--PAD includes LGBT content in almost everything he writes, both in comics and novels.
I would also include Fabian Nicieza. He was very LGBT-inclusive even back before Marvel dropped the Comics Code and it was more 'taboo'. His NOMAS series had two different storylines dealing with gay characters, as well as transvestities; his T-BOLTS run had multiple LGBT characters, several of whom he outed; his CDP series didn't have anything explicitly gay but had lots of homoerotic subtext and provided a lot of the supporting evidence to Deadpool being bi; his GAMBIT series had Gambit kissing his shape-shifting male friend; hios CAPTAIN MARVEL series gave Genis an alien lover who was dual-gendered, etc.

Oh HOW did I forget Fabian, I love his work so much. To this day I swear he was going to out Blizzard, all signs pointed to him fancing Speed Demon. But yeah he had quite a few: Genis, Joystick, Swordsman... good rep for the LGBT community.

Still, he deserves some credit for the famous Larry Bodine story, done in 1986. Yes, it was again a mutant/gay metaphor, but it was a stunning story.
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chron...tants_45.shtml

Wow, thanks for this!!!

[Darthfury78]

You know, come to think of it, has Claremont ever shown an openly LGBT relationship? Not just subtext, but actually kissing and ****? The closest was Mystique and Destiny. Other than those two, I genuinely can't think of any instances where two same-sex characters he wrote were clearly in a romantic relationship.

I think that Claremont had plans for Jessica Drew x Carol Danvers as well.

[just another user]

You know, come to think of it, has Claremont ever shown an openly LGBT relationship? Not just subtext, but actually kissing and ****? The closest was Mystique and Destiny. Other than those two, I genuinely can't think of any instances where two same-sex characters he wrote were clearly in a romantic relationship.

Most of its coded, due to the time it was published, but it's definitely there. He was much more progressive than most of his contemporaries, IMO.

[NexusTenebrare]

Most of its coded, due to the time it was published, but it's definitely there. He was much more progressive than most of his contemporaries, IMO.

I don't know.
I always got a (as Tiamatty put it) fetishist vibe from the seemingly standardised unspoken bisexuality of the women in Claremont's work.

[Kieran_Frost]

Forgot how much I love these panels... hands down one of the "top 3" greatest LGBT moments in comics. Their love LITERALLY saves the universe.

I don't know.
I always got a (as Tiamatty put it) fetishist vibe from the seemingly standardised unspoken bisexuality of the women in Claremont's work.

Even outside his (possible) perchance for that, he still did an amazing job with putting women in lead roles. The X-verse is so women friendly due to him (and not just white women, WOC in major roles). I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt on that BUT... not sure we should keep him on the list of pro-active writers giving great LGBT rep. We'll see what he does in Nightcrawler, maybe that will help answer these things.

[just another user]

Even outside his (possible) perchance for that, he still did an amazing job with putting women in lead roles. The X-verse is so women friendly due to him (and not just white women, WOC in major roles). I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt on that BUT... not sure we should keep him on the list of pro-active writers giving great LGBT rep. We'll see what he does in Nightcrawler, maybe that will help answer these things.

He created or developed a huge number of bisexual characters. Growing up his work was pretty much the only positive portrayal of happy normal bisexuals I had in the media. And 100% agree about him putting women of all backgrounds in major roles

And he's given interviews where he states Wolverine is bisexual, so it's not just women.

[Kieran_Frost]

He created or developed a huge number of bisexual characters. Growing up his work was pretty much the only positive portrayal of happy normal bisexuals I had in the media. And 100% agree about him putting women of all backgrounds in major roles

I stand corrected. Thank-you for that.

And he's given interviews where he states Wolverine is bisexual, so it's not just women.

HA! God, I want him to directly reference this in Nightcrawler. Wolvie fans would hit the roof... mwwwhahahaha! But in all seriousness, it would be the first A-lister to be outed, that would be pretty amazing; and a huge step forward!

[mugiwara]

HA! God, I want him to directly reference this in Nightcrawler. Wolvie fans would hit the roof... mwwwhahahaha! But in all seriousness, it would be the first A-lister to be outed, that would be pretty amazing; and a huge step forward!

Honnestly, it was for me a (good) surprise that some readers didn't get on arms when Pak created General Howlett.

[Stormcrow]

I don't know the full extent of DC's Batwoman, is she Barbara Gordon? Because while the name "Batwoman" is huge, many associate that with Gordon's daughter (films, cartoons); not with the LGBT star, surely?

That would be Batgirl, who also became a huge feminist icon thanks to the 60's tv series. Batwoman is Kate Kane, a Greg Rucka creation that shares the name with the original 50's character.

While her specific character might not be mainstream knowledge, the name Batwoman is immediatly recognizable and sounds kinda like a big deal. Marvel needs something like that, a queer character tied to a marquee name to have some impact. The best thing Northstar can hope for is a My Little Pony reference.

Maybe Miss America could eventually become the new "it" character like Ms. Marvel has, given the right creative team?

[Spider-Chan]

HA! God, I want him to directly reference this in Nightcrawler. Wolvie fans would hit the roof... mwwwhahahaha! But in all seriousness, it would be the first A-lister to be outed, that would be pretty amazing; and a huge step forward!

This will be the closest we'll get.

[Dermie]

I definately agree with those three.

Also, as others have mentioned, Peter David--PAD includes LGBT content in almost everything he writes, both in comics and novels.

I would also include Fabian Nicieza. He was very LGBT-inclusive even back before Marvel dropped the Comics Code and it was more 'taboo'. His NOMAS series had two different storylines dealing with gay characters, as well as transvestities; his T-BOLTS run had multiple LGBT characters, several of whom he outed; his CDP series didn't have anything explicitly gay but had lots of homoerotic subtext and provided a lot of the supporting evidence to Deadpool being bi; his GAMBIT series had Gambit kissing his shape-shifting male friend; hios CAPTAIN MARVEL series gave Genis an alien lover who was dual-gendered, etc.

I also meant to mention Matt Fraction. Almost everything I have read of his Marvel work includes LGBT characters. THE ORDER had a lesbian member, as well as an all-girl villain team that had several lesbians. He brought Northstar back to the X-Men in his run there, and the issue of DARK AVENGERS he wrote was the only issue of the series to acknowledge Daken's bisexuality (although Bendis is good with LGBT content in general, he dropped the ball on Daken). His IRON MAN run had a gay couple as supporting characters. His HAWKEYE series has a gay couple, as well as a lesbian, as supporting characters. His FF run outed Tong as transgender.

[Tiamatty]

I also meant to mention Matt Fraction. Almost everything I have read of his Marvel work includes LGBT characters. THE ORDER had a lesbian member, as well as an all-girl villain team that had several lesbians. He brought Northstar back to the X-Men in his run there, and the issue of DARK AVENGERS he wrote was the only issue of the series to acknowledge Daken's bisexuality (although Bendis is good with LGBT content in general, he dropped the ball on Daken). His IRON MAN run had a gay couple as supporting characters. His HAWKEYE series has a gay couple, as well as a lesbian, as supporting characters. His FF run outed Tong as transgender.

I don't think his Defenders run had anything. But yeah, Tong might be the first truly transgender character at Marvel; not a shapeshifter or someone who otherwise had their body changed through non-mundane means, but someone who had previously identified as male simply telling people she identifies as female.

I'd like it if Marvel introduced a transgender superhero. Again, not a character whose gender has been changed magically, or had their mind implanted in a different body, or who shapeshifted into a more comfortable form, or any of those other comic book things. But someone who was born one gender, and, either with or without the gender reassignment surgery, now identifies as the other gender. And give the character powers that are completely and totally unrelated to their status as a trans person.