LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Greg]

If you want/need further fuel for that fire, consider that Living Lighting didn't come out until AFTER he was stationed on a remote space station with Quasar and Starfox.

LOL! Wow...

[Kieran_Frost]

If you want/need further fuel for that fire, consider that Living Lighting didn't come out until AFTER he was stationed on a remote space station with Quasar and Starfox.

AHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh, it writes itself, quite frankly! Genius, good sir, genius!

[CaTigeReptile]

If you want/need further fuel for that fire, consider that Living Lighting didn't come out until AFTER he was stationed on a remote space station with Quasar and Starfox.

Monica SAID that Miguel wasn't gonna get much studying done with Starfox around!

1) Unfortunately . . . I would love Living Lightning to be gay/LGBT by principal of him being a Latino from East LA and that it would make a very interesting story, but he was made gay for the sole purpose of being the butt of a "hahaha lololol he looks like a homo" joke, which is unfortunate.

2) Eros probably isn't bi because that's far too limiting imo. He's an ancient alien who traverses the cosmos and surely there are aliens with sexes/genders beyond our binary, or even beyond our imaginations! He's gotta be pansexual. Incidentally, there's no lack of homosexual innuendo involving his powers.


(Yes, my uncanny sense kicked in . . . But I'm pretty sure I'm going to be going to SDCC as him )

3) I'd also be up for Quasar being gay. I agree that there are definitely instances in the '90s comics that could be interpreted as such. Or maybe he's asexual, actually - I could see that too.

[Dermie]

Monica SAID that Miguel wasn't gonna get much studying done with Starfox around!

1) Unfortunately . . . I would love Living Lightning to be gay/LGBT by principal of him being a Latino from East LA and that it would make a very interesting story, but he was made gay for the sole purpose of being the butt of a "hahaha lololol he looks like a homo" joke, which is unfortunate.

That is a common mistake, since the GLA miniseries had so much (dark) humour, but the truth is Miguel was NOT made gay for a joke. Miguel was outed as gay as part of the character arc for Flatman--seeing an official Avenger be openly gay inspired Flatman to have the courage to finally come out of the closet himself. It was a character arc moment. Since the series was comedic in tone, the moment was handled WITH a joke--but the joke was not the point.

The unfortunate part is that Miguel was outed for the benefit of someone else's storyline, rather than his own. Miguel came out of the closet...and then quietly disappeared back into limbo (aside from one more brief cameo later in the mini).

[NexusTenebrare]

That is a common mistake, since the GLA miniseries had so much (dark) humour, but the truth is Miguel was NOT made gay for a joke. Miguel was outed as gay as part of the character arc for Flatman--seeing an official Avenger be openly gay inspired Flatman to have the courage to finally come out of the closet himself. It was a character arc moment. Since the series was comedic in tone, the moment was handled WITH a joke--but the joke was not the point.

The unfortunate part is that Miguel was outed for the benefit of someone else's storyline, rather than his own. Miguel came out of the closet...and then quietly disappeared back into limbo (aside from one more brief cameo later in the mini).

Miguel has appeared recently in Scarlet Spider as part of the Rangers team and I believe he was in the Red Hulk solo where a lot of South American heroes appeared during the whole Aztek gods thing. In both cases his role was little more than a cameo though.

But yeah, I never thought the joke in GLA was at the expense of Miguel (beyond outing him for someone else's story). Certainly not about him looking gay. O_o

[mugiwara]

But yeah, I never thought the joke in GLA was at the expense of Miguel (beyond outing him for someone else's story). Certainly not about him looking gay. O_o

The jokes in GLA were all at the expense of the GLA. (and DC Comics)

[CaTigeReptile]

That is a common mistake, since the GLA miniseries had so much (dark) humour, but the truth is Miguel was NOT made gay for a joke. Miguel was outed as gay as part of the character arc for Flatman--seeing an official Avenger be openly gay inspired Flatman to have the courage to finally come out of the closet himself. It was a character arc moment. Since the series was comedic in tone, the moment was handled WITH a joke--but the joke was not the point.

The unfortunate part is that Miguel was outed for the benefit of someone else's storyline, rather than his own. Miguel came out of the closet...and then quietly disappeared back into limbo (aside from one more brief cameo later in the mini).

I like that thought, I guess; it's a bit more encouraging (though not quite there). The pity there then is like I said before, that would be an extremely interesting story to tell. Maybe he did figure it out in space where there's no judgement about it, and then had to come back to Earth - Boyle Heights ffs - and deal with the consequences of "wait, it's not so simple here, this is a big deal." Not only is he a Latino from East LA but he's also been shown as Catholic. He's ALSO been shown to sleep with women - maybe he's bisexual? I know I mentioned this all on the old forum but if LL being LGBT is legit, this could go somewhere (in theory or in fan-imagination I suppose).

Someone write me a fanfic

[Kieran_Frost]

Monica SAID that Miguel wasn't gonna get much studying done with Starfox around!

Oh, he was studying alright, just not from a book

2) Eros probably isn't bi because that's far too limiting imo. He's an ancient alien who traverses the cosmos and surely there are aliens with sexes/genders beyond our binary, or even beyond our imaginations! He's gotta be pansexual. Incidentally, there's no lack of homosexual innuendo involving his powers.


(Yes, my uncanny sense kicked in . . . But I'm pretty sure I'm going to be going to SDCC as him

This is hilarious! I fully support this outing!

3) I'd also be up for Quasar being gay. I agree that there are definitely instances in the '90s comics that could be interpreted as such. Or maybe he's asexual, actually - I could see that too.

Agreed.

That is a common mistake, since the GLA miniseries had so much (dark) humour, but the truth is Miguel was NOT made gay for a joke. Miguel was outed as gay as part of the character arc for Flatman--seeing an official Avenger be openly gay inspired Flatman to have the courage to finally come out of the closet himself. It was a character arc moment. Since the series was comedic in tone, the moment was handled WITH a joke--but the joke was not the point.

The unfortunate part is that Miguel was outed for the benefit of someone else's storyline, rather than his own. Miguel came out of the closet...and then quietly disappeared back into limbo (aside from one more brief cameo later in the mini).

Beautifully explained.

I like that thought, I guess; it's a bit more encouraging (though not quite there). The pity there then is like I said before, that would be an extremely interesting story to tell. Maybe he did figure it out in space where there's no judgement about it, and then had to come back to Earth - Boyle Heights ffs - and deal with the consequences of "wait, it's not so simple here, this is a big deal." Not only is he a Latino from East LA but he's also been shown as Catholic. He's ALSO been shown to sleep with women - maybe he's bisexual? I know I mentioned this all on the old forum but if LL being LGBT is legit, this could go somewhere (in theory or in fan-imagination I suppose).

I would like to see him bring up why he struggled with it, and I think his Catholic roots would be a reason to do just that. We REALLY need him back in the Avengers, latino and LGBT (two things the Avengers need far more of).

[Wiccan615]

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum

I used to really be into comic books as a kid but I kind of stepped away from the scene after I came out because comic books and comic culture seemed very hetero normative and homophobic. I've been getting back into it over the last year and am happy to see such diversity within both the fanbase and the stories now more than ever. Audiences have become more diverse and open minded and Marvel and DC are slowly making an effort to change things. I wish we had a bit more representation and that there were more A-List LGBT marvel heroes but there has definitely been a ton of progress and I think we'll have an A-List LGBT character eventually.

Marvel has a ton of great LGBT characters and I sincerely hope they do more with them. Northstar is pretty iconic to the LGBT community but I feel as if he doesn't do much within the team(s) he's on, I hope they give him a bigger role in major plots in the future. With the death of Wolverine coming up, I'm hoping Daken's role within the marvelverse will grow, and I'm hoping they do some good things with Loki and his sexuality in his solo series. We don't need another psychotic bisexual/gay villain so let's hope both Daken and Loki get positive portrayals.

My favorite gay characters of all are definitely Wiccan and Hulkling though. Allan Heimberg's YA book is probably one of my favorite books of all time. Both characters are so authentic, relatable and have a lot of depth. Some of the best written gay characters in all of comics imo. Kieron Gillen's run was fun but it didn't have the impact or depth Allan's had imo and I hope that some day the original team is bought back, I loved the dynamic between them. I also loved Miss America and Kid Loki in Gillen's run though, didn't like what he did with Kate (nothing) and I thought Nohvarr was pointless. I'm looking forward to seeing the YA in Original Sins! Hopefully that'll be a good story for them and then someone else will hopefully pick up the series eventually.

[Kieran_Frost]

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum

Welcome to the thread and CBR, good sir.

Audiences have become more diverse and open minded and Marvel and DC are slowly making an effort to change things. I wish we had a bit more representation and that there were more A-List LGBT marvel heroes but there has definitely been a ton of progress and I think we'll have an A-List LGBT character eventually.

It's a slow process, but I'm so proud of how far Marvel's come in such a short time. When Young Avengers first began they were one of the only LGBT outlet at Marvel, it was the only time I saw someone "like me" (in a relationship, not sexless like 95% of LGBT character at that point). And now... now we have LGBT characters in several monthly comics, it's becoming far more common place (which is a great thing). The X-books (as always) do the lion's share of the diversity rep, but we've also had Avengers Arena/Undercover, Young Avengers and Fearless Defenders recently. And now we have the forth LGBT on-going (though I agree Loki's sexuality will hopefully come into play more soon - come on Sigurd!).

Marvel has a ton of great LGBT characters and I sincerely hope they do more with them. Northstar is pretty iconic to the LGBT community but I feel as if he doesn't do much within the team(s) he's on, I hope they give him a bigger role in major plots in the future. With the death of Wolverine coming up, I'm hoping Daken's role within the marvelverse will grow, and I'm hoping they do some good things with Loki and his sexuality in his solo series. We don't need another psychotic bisexual/gay villain so let's hope both Daken and Loki get positive portrayals.

My "Top 3" LGBT characters are a no-brainer for me to decide:
1. Wiccan [William 'Billy' Kaplan], the Demiurge
2. Daken Akihiro
3. Loki Laufeyson, God of Mischief

The sadly deceased (but still fabulous) Ms. Victoria Hand would be 4th.

My favorite gay characters of all are definitely Wiccan and Hulkling though. Allan Heimberg's YA book is probably one of my favorite books of all time. Both characters are so authentic, relatable and have a lot of depth. Some of the best written gay characters in all of comics imo. Kieron Gillen's run was fun but it didn't have the impact or depth Allan's had imo and I hope that some day the original team is bought back, I loved the dynamic between them. I also loved Miss America and Kid Loki in Gillen's run though, didn't like what he did with Kate (nothing) and I thought Nohvarr was pointless. I'm looking forward to seeing the YA in Original Sins! Hopefully that'll be a good story for them and then someone else will hopefully pick up the series eventually.

Interesting. For me it's the other way round (but I just love that BOTH runs are awesome).

Also here's a link to the LGBT Community thread where you can talk about all comics (not just Marvel) as well as any and all LGBT issues (or issues in general) in media, in the world, with you, etc.
http://community.comicbookresources....TQIA-community

[CaTigeReptile]

I would like to see him bring up why he struggled with it, and I think his Catholic roots would be a reason to do just that. We REALLY need him back in the Avengers, latino and LGBT (two things the Avengers need far more of).

His Catholic roots, while obviously an issue, are, in my opinion, dwarfed by his roots as growing up in THE hood. Like I mean Boyle Heights/East LA is as hood as it gets - of course, it's merely a matter of time before it's completely gentrified (or "gentefied" via chipsters) - they just got their first free-standing Starbucks) - and in a decade or two Miguel being from that area will be meaningless. But for now, the barrio is not somewhere you want to be gay. Macho culture is a huuuuuge deal - a lot of the time, even if men will admit they have sex with other men, they still refuse to use the word gay (because of the feminine/'fruity' connotations). So even the fact that Miguel would have actually called himself gay is, like, a big thing.

Then again he has the advantage of being able to turn into sentient lightning which probably helps if someone tries to start something with him about it.

This is a complex and salient issue right now. I'm sure that besides the new pope, not much will change in terms of the Catholicism angle, though. But yeah, Living Lightning for center stage right now please, just anyway! I really really like him.

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum

Hi!

[Dermie]

QUESTION: would we support or dislike some "meta commentary" from someone like Living Lightning, commenting on the lack of LGBT Avengers, and him saying that is why he's not been back since (he didn't think he'd be welcome now)?

I would dislike that. Miguel knows his teammates well enough to know that the vast majority of them would be supportive. Plus, technically, he was still working with the Avengers when he came out--he was working at the Avengers asteroid base. And he has worked with them since then as well--he was apparently one of the Avengers assigned to protect the families of Avengers Academy students if an Avengers enemy went after them (Striker told his mother to stop pressing the panic button so she could flirt with Living Lightning, since he was gay and there was no point).

Plus, since coming out Miguel has served as a member of the Texas-based Rangers, alongside the very religious Firebird, and people like Texas Twister, etc. I'd think Miguel would be more worried about anti-gay sentiment in THAT setting than he would in the Avengers.

This is what makes me sad, on some level. Hickman created the most active roster for females... and it's still could be better (not Hickman's fault, it's an issue across the line). Women are so rarely leaders (and when they are there is nearly always a man "in-charge" ultimately -- both Bendis and Ewing's Might Avengers). Wasp and Black Widow used to lead, not anymore.

Its true that Luke is the man running the 'Mighty Avengers' program, but Monica is still the field leader of the group--as well as having served as Avengers chairman before. And in addition to Wasp and the Widow, both the Scarlet Witch and Carol Danvers have served terms as Avengers leader. Plus Tigra held a leadership role with the Avengers Resistance during 'Dark Reign', and Mockingbird has led some Avengers side-teams, like when she was training the GLA, or when she, Tigra and Moon Knight split off into their own group, etc.

[Dermie]

I like that thought, I guess; it's a bit more encouraging (though not quite there). The pity there then is like I said before, that would be an extremely interesting story to tell. Maybe he did figure it out in space where there's no judgement about it, and then had to come back to Earth - Boyle Heights ffs - and deal with the consequences of "wait, it's not so simple here, this is a big deal." Not only is he a Latino from East LA but he's also been shown as Catholic.

Yeah, there is definitely some interesting territory to explore there...as well as how his family and friends have dealt with it. His mother, I expect, has decided to accept him no matter what--even if her initial reaction was anti-gay, I figure the fact that she already lost one child (Miguel's sister was killed in a drive-by shooting) means she won't let anything come between her and her remaining children. And I figure his ex-girlfriend Mona will accept and embrace it. I can just picture Mona trying to fix him up with guys...and both of them laughing over his ex-girlfriend trying to find him boyfriends. Miguel's little brother is the one that I expect will have a problem with it...

He's ALSO been shown to sleep with women - maybe he's bisexual?

Certainly possible--but he's been referred to on-panel (and in interviews) as gay. So it sounds like Miguel was simply in denial of his sexuality before--not surprising, given his background.

I know I mentioned this all on the old forum but if LL being LGBT is legit, this could go somewhere (in theory or in fan-imagination I suppose).

Its definitely legit--Miguel being gay has been referenced since then in at least one other book. Striker of Avengers Academy commented on Miguel being gay.

[Kieran_Frost]

His Catholic roots, while obviously an issue, are, in my opinion, dwarfed by his roots as growing up in THE hood. Like I mean Boyle Heights/East LA is as hood as it gets - of course, it's merely a matter of time before it's completely gentrified (or "gentefied" via chipsters) - they just got their first free-standing Starbucks) - and in a decade or two Miguel being from that area will be meaningless. But for now, the barrio is not somewhere you want to be gay. Macho culture is a huuuuuge deal - a lot of the time, even if men will admit they have sex with other men, they still refuse to use the word gay (because of the feminine/'fruity' connotations). So even the fact that Miguel would have actually called himself gay is, like, a big thing.

Very good point. It's a difficult thing to write sometimes. You want to explore these issues BUT you also need to make it a superhero comic and not become cliche in the resolution. I would like to see a writer take a crack at it.

Dermie would know (he's an encyclopaedia of awesome): what LGBT characters have had an actual subplot (not a one issue) arc dealing with homophobia? I know Ult Colossus did, do you know any others?

Its true that Luke is the man running the 'Mighty Avengers' program, but Monica is still the field leader of the group--as well as having served as Avengers chairman before. And in addition to Wasp and the Widow, both the Scarlet Witch and Carol Danvers have served terms as Avengers leader. Plus Tigra held a leadership role with the Avengers Resistance during 'Dark Reign', and Mockingbird has led some Avengers side-teams, like when she was training the GLA, or when she, Tigra and Moon Knight split off into their own group, etc.

It's not that they don't have female field leaders (like Monica and Carol before her), it's that (ultimately) it's been a long time since a woman was the leader leader (without a man ultimately in-charge). Who was the last one? Black Widow before Onslaught??? Mockingbird ran her own operation in her mini-series, but that wasn't an Avengers team.

Certainly possible--but he's been referred to on-panel (and in interviews) as gay. So it sounds like Miguel was simply in denial of his sexuality before--not surprising, given his background.

Agreed, he's gay. Plenty of gay men have sex with women before they come out. But since he came out as gay, I don't think he's bi.

[Stormcrow]

It's a slow process, but I'm so proud of how far Marvel's come in such a short time. When Young Avengers first began they were one of the only LGBT outlet at Marvel, it was the only time I saw someone "like me" (in a relationship, not sexless like 95% of LGBT character at that point). And now... now we have LGBT characters in several monthly comics, it's becoming far more common place (which is a great thing). The X-books (as always) do the lion's share of the diversity rep, but we've also had Avengers Arena/Undercover, Young Avengers and Fearless Defenders recently. And now we have the forth LGBT on-going (though I agree Loki's sexuality will hopefully come into play more soon - come on Sigurd!).

I'd actually like to see the X-Books take more of an active approach towards sexual diversity. Their queer characters are barely used this days, except for Mystique whose sexuality barely comes into play when it's not about conceiving secret offspring... But Karma didn't get much of a spotlight in Liu's Astonishing X-Men run, and while Northstar had the out of character stunt wedding, nobody seems to know what to do with him. Matt Fraction added him to the team with the understanding that he wouldn't be the token gay, but that's all he's been so far.

Anole, Rictor, and Shatterstar are nowhere to be seen and the new Morph's power to blend in definitely translates into the comics because other than the spotlight issue he had a while ago he's had zero development or involvement in the plot.

The X-Men would benefit from an A-list character coming out. Iceman's fooling no one!