LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Kieran_Frost]

There is a gay artist who has been getting more work at Marvel lately though--Jacopo Camagni. He did the recent LONGSHOT SAVES THE MARVEL UNIVERSE mini, as well as the last DEADPOOL ANNUAL.

Just done some "research" on Camagni, am I right in saying he is responsible for (arguably) my favourite image of my beloved Wiccan&Hulkling?

[NexusTenebrare]

The same is true of female leaders (Natasha has now been overlooked as the leader of Secret Avengers FOUR TIMES!!! (four different writing teams).

Secret Avengers still has a female leader though.
The one in charge of that group is unquestionably Maria Hill.
She's not field leader though, but she is the top brass. The Tony to your Carol, to follow your example.

[Kieran_Frost]

Secret Avengers still has a female leader though.
The one in charge of that group is unquestionably Maria Hill.
She's not field leader though, but she is the top brass. The Tony to your Carol, to follow your example.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh... good point. I completely forgot about Maria Hill. I stand corrected. Okay cool, glad to see at-least one Avenger comic has an unquestionable female leader. What's happening in the comic right now (I don't read it).

[Tiamatty]

It's not that we always need a female leader, and it's not about sexism, but it's been 10 years since a female has led a team outright. That's SAD! That is a huge shame, and I hope the next writer after Hickman corrects this over-sight. It's not about sexism, each case (in of itself) is fine. Monica's situation is fine, Carol... less fine, but whatever. But put ALL together = MAJOR problem. The same is true of the Avengers complete absence of LGBT official members. Each writer = fine, it happens. But taken as a whole it's a massive failing, and more should be done to repair that. The same is true of female leaders (Natasha has now been overlooked as the leader of Secret Avengers FOUR TIMES!!! (four different writing teams). Come on, that's a massive failing. Marvel keep wanting to make Carol the "lead Marvel female" yet never put her as the leader outright. And every year this situation doesn't change, the more problematic it will become (in my eyes).

I hate that they keep putting frigging Hawkeye on the Secret Avengers. Hawkeye, at his best, is a carnie - he's a showman and con artist. While he's good at the sneaky stuff, it's not a natural fit for him. It doesn't help that he was brought on when Remender turned the whole book into a straight-up superhero book and filled the cast with characters who have no business doing secret ops. (Captain frigging Britain on the secret ops team?)

I keep saying that Hickman should have at least one arc of Avengers where Captain America's not available, and Captain Marvel takes over as the full leader. And does just as good a job as Steve. Give her a slightly different leadership style, but no less effective. Alternatively: With Starlord getting a solo series, maybe Carol could lead the Guardians of the Galaxy for a little while.

[legion_quest]

Camagni seems to be a great artist for nice 'pretty' art and so would be a good fit for YA.

Although he does seem to have a weird thing for leather crotch sag/bulge - noticeable on both his Wiccan on this page and the Cyke a page back

[Stormcrow]

The same is true of female leaders (Natasha has now been overlooked as the leader of Secret Avengers FOUR TIMES!!! (four different writing teams). Come on, that's a massive failing.

Yeah, sadly Natasha's leadership skills go unnoticed these days. Seriously, Steve Rogers had to beg Hawkeye - who had no experience whatsoever leading covert teams - to take over while Black Widow was right there.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh... good point. I completely forgot about Maria Hill. I stand corrected. Okay cool, glad to see at-least one Avenger comic has an unquestionable female leader. What's happening in the comic right now (I don't read it).

The new volume is actually pretty good, if you like off the wall bonkers stories.

MODOK is now working for SHIELD and Maria is trying to convince herself she is nothing like him while concealing his involvement to the rest of the team and manipulating everyone, as per usual. There's also someone trying to kill her because it's Tuesday.

Black Widow remains the most competent member of the team, while Hawkeye is much more questionable in this kind of gig as he should be.

And there's constant homoerotic interaction between Nick Fury and Coulson. So there's that.

[legion_quest]

And there's constant homoerotic interaction between Nick Fury and Coulson. So there's that.

There's an MCU character that could come out - Samuel L Fury could be black and gay! Double winner.

[klinton]

And there's constant homoerotic interaction between Nick Fury and Coulson. So there's that.

...um, where? I've read every panel these two have ever appeared in, and I've seen nothing like this.

[NexusTenebrare]

Camagni seems to be a great artist for nice 'pretty' art and so would be a good fit for YA.

Although he does seem to have a weird thing for leather crotch sag/bulge - noticeable on both his Wiccan on this page and the Cyke a page back

It's called realistic anatomy. As opposed to when superheroes in spandex are usually depicted as if they have no genitals whatsoever.
Why complain about one or two crotch bulges when comics are filled with over the top sized boobs?

Yeah, sadly Natasha's leadership skills go unnoticed these days. Seriously, Steve Rogers had to beg Hawkeye - who had no experience whatsoever leading covert teams - to take over while Black Widow was right there.

Black Widow a leader? I'm happy I never read those issues.
Who looks to her for leadership? A leader is supposed to inspire. Black Widow is nothing but a glorified assassin.
Maybe whoever wrote it made it work at the time, but someone like her leading a team is completely unrealistic.

There's an MCU character that could come out - Samuel L Fury could be black and gay! Double winner.

Oh that's a great idea. What with most of the comic reading audiance despising him. That would be great representation.

...um, where? I've read every panel these two have ever appeared in, and I've seen nothing like this.

Agreed. Sometimes a friendship is just a friendship.

Edit: Apologies if some/all of these responses came of bitchier than intended.

[Stormcrow]

...um, where? I've read every panel these two have ever appeared in, and I've seen nothing like this.

Well... they're clearly old war buddies in love. No cellist for this Phil Coulson.



sacoulson.jpg

[klinton]

As I said: I've not seen a single panel that supports your idea. You're really reaching.

[Dermie]

As I said: I've not seen a single panel that supports your idea. You're really reaching.

I disagree that he is "really reaching"--I've had the same reaction here and there while reading this series. There is definitely a homoerotic subtext that can be read into some of their interactions. It doesn't mean that either Fury or Coulson are gay or bi--just that their friendship can sometimes have a homoerotic subtext. It happens.

That said, I don't think either Coulson or Fury Jr have had anything solid established about their orientations on-panel as of yet, so in theory one or both of them could be outed as gay or bi, if a writer chose to go in that direction...

Black Widow a leader? I'm happy I never read those issues.
Who looks to her for leadership? A leader is supposed to inspire. Black Widow is nothing but a glorified assassin.
Maybe whoever wrote it made it work at the time, but someone like her leading a team is completely unrealistic.

Black Widow was leader of the Champions, and later served a stint as Avengers chairman.

I think you're being overly harsh on Natasha there, although I do ultimately agree that she is not really a great candidate for leader. Its just not really the role that her personality and skill sets lean towards. She can do the job when required to, but it is not where her skills lie (something she herself has admitted on-panel).

[Dermie]

The same is true of female leaders (Natasha has now been overlooked as the leader of Secret Avengers FOUR TIMES!!! (four different writing teams). Come on, that's a massive failing.

I'd argue that in that particular case, it is staying in-character. Although Tasha HAS lead in the past, it isn't a natural fit for her and she has said on-panel that it isn't the best use of her skills and she doesn't want to do it.

Marvel keep wanting to make Carol the "lead Marvel female" yet never put her as the leader outright.

Not entirely true. Aside from her stint as Avengers leader (yes, with Iron Man interfering), she has also been shown in command positions elsewhere. During Brian Reed's MS. MARVEL series Carol was the commander of her own Lightning Storm strike team--it was originally entirely SHIELD agents under her command, but expanded to include superheroes such as Wonder Man, Sleepwalker and Machine Man. So she was leader of that team for an extended period (while at the same time serving as Avengers leader--so she was doing double duty as leader of two teams at the same time...perhaps the first woman at Marvel to do so?).

And although she is not currently in an ongoing leadership role in the Avengers, the size of Hickman's roster has meant that on several occasions the team has been split into smaller squads for missions. Carol has been given command of her own squad a few times. Its not an ongoing position--but it is still a way of giving her some command responsibility when we also have Cap and Stark at the helm.

Thank-you for this, very cool work, and always good to hear of more LGBT representation behind the scenes. Just done some "research" on Camagni, am I right in saying he is responsible for (arguably) my favourite image of my beloved Wiccan&Hulkling?

You're welcome. And yeah, that looks like his work.

[Punisher007]

Natasha may not be suited to be the leader of a public team like the main Avengers. However, she is most definitely suited to be the leader of a more covert/black-ops team like SA. And she's certainly more qualified than freaking Hawkeye or Maria Hill, which is why it's so annoying that she was apparently never even CONSIDERED for the job.

[Kieran_Frost]

Camagni seems to be a great artist for nice 'pretty' art and so would be a good fit for YA.

Agreed, he would work great for Young Avengers. MAKE IT HAPPEN, MARVEL!!!

Yeah, sadly Natasha's leadership skills go unnoticed these days. Seriously, Steve Rogers had to beg Hawkeye - who had no experience whatsoever leading covert teams - to take over while Black Widow was right there.

I hate that they keep putting frigging Hawkeye on the Secret Avengers. Hawkeye, at his best, is a carnie - he's a showman and con artist. While he's good at the sneaky stuff, it's not a natural fit for him. It doesn't help that he was brought on when Remender turned the whole book into a straight-up superhero book and filled the cast with characters who have no business doing secret ops. (Captain frigging Britain on the secret ops team?)

I agree about Hawkeye. I think Clint's wonderful, and he's certainly more skilled than heroes often give him credit - but he's no "world's greatest spy"; the leadership should have been Natasha's from day one. I wish one of the editors had told (at-least ONE) of the 4 writers since Secret Avengers began to try giving Natasha the leadership.

The new volume is actually pretty good, if you like off the wall bonkers stories.
MODOK is now working for SHIELD and Maria is trying to convince herself she is nothing like him while concealing his involvement to the rest of the team and manipulating everyone, as per usual. There's also someone trying to kill her because it's Tuesday.

Ohhhhh, I like the idea of MODOK. Is Mockingbird still in the cast?

Black Widow remains the most competent member of the team, while Hawkeye is much more questionable in this kind of gig as he should be.
And there's constant homoerotic interaction between Nick Fury and Coulson. So there's that.

I keep saying that Hickman should have at least one arc of Avengers where Captain America's not available, and Captain Marvel takes over as the full leader. And does just as good a job as Steve. Give her a slightly different leadership style, but no less effective. Alternatively: With Starlord getting a solo series, maybe Carol could lead the Guardians of the Galaxy for a little while.

Agreed. I think Hickman's "all male New Avengers" would have been more acceptable if he'd had women in much more pivitol roles in Avengers (i.e. leadership of the whole damn group).

Although he does seem to have a weird thing for leather crotch sag/bulge - noticeable on both his Wiccan on this page and the Cyke a page back

It's called realistic anatomy. As opposed to when superheroes in spandex are usually depicted as if they have no genitals whatsoever.
Why complain about one or two crotch bulges when comics are filled with over the top sized boobs?

Beautifully put, Nexus. The crotches aren't gratuitous, nor obscenely bulging. They are just bulges, lots of guys create bulges in their clothes. I'd rather more characters had bulges personally (that a vacant emptiness where a penis generally should be). We see more camel toe in comics than we do male bulges...

Black Widow a leader? I'm happy I never read those issues.
Who looks to her for leadership? A leader is supposed to inspire. Black Widow is nothing but a glorified assassin.
Maybe whoever wrote it made it work at the time, but someone like her leading a team is completely unrealistic.

I'm not sure about her Avengers leadership (I know it ended with nearly the entire team "dying" at the end of Onslaught... so maybe not 'the best' leader). She "lead" the Thunderbolts in the guise of Yelena Belova, and was very good. Not only did she get the missions done, but she (as a double agent0 managed to both win AND not kill anyone heroic (but making her team thing they did). It was a very hard situation and she handled it well.