LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[MasterOfMagnetism]

They seemed to be hinting pretty strongly at that. Maybe it'll happen in the final few issues/

Yeah, Ewing was definitely setting up a relationship between Toni and Aikku. I just wish that LGBT characters would get included in a main Avengers series, it's always in Young Avengers, New Avengers, USAvengers, which all feel like off-shoot Avengers teams. But some might argue that there is no "main" Avengers series right now, but that's what I considered ANAD Avengers to be.

[Wiccan]

Yeah, Ewing was definitely setting up a relationship between Toni and Aikku. I just wish that LGBT characters would get included in a main Avengers series, it's always in Young Avengers, New Avengers, USAvengers, which all feel like off-shoot Avengers teams. But some might argue that there is no "main" Avengers series right now, but that's what I considered ANAD Avengers to be.

I consider ANAD to be the the main technically, in promotion, concept and everything, and Uncanny the main in-story, the one that feels like the "real" Avengers..

[Mah VM]

About USAvengers: Literally the only thing that interests me there is Pod and Dr.Toni's possible romance and seeing Aikku kicking ass and showing more personality and character development.

About the Eli thing: (Sorry in advance for the rant )People need to leave Eli the **** alone. Saying that he had a "drug problem" is just disingenuous. He took MGH in order to fight crime, save lives and honour his grandfather's legacy. Eli didn't simply have a "drug problem" like many people say (which sounds as if he was smoking pot or snorting coke at parties), he took a drug that enhanced his physical abilities in order to be a hero. As far as heroes with shady backstories go, I'd say Eli doesn't look so bad at all specially considering how young he was.

The same goes for his anger problem. I don't have the time or patience to list all of the white characters at Marvel who could be described as angry and yet that has never stoped them from being featured in books, being members of a team and even having solo after solo (It's hard for me to remember a scene with Logan where he wasn't two steps away from beating his chest or growling and he's far from being the only one. That's a common trope, having male characters acting like a jerk and then excusing it by bringing up his troubled past and the people he's lost. **** that noise.) But Eli has the gall of having an attitude so he's an "angry black man stereotype" and need to be left out of comics forever.
That's without metioning all of the murderers, rapists and abusive characters that had a redemption arc and became heroes/heroines later. But having both an attitude and brown skin means they can't ever show up in a comic again. It's a double-standart and an unecessary extra level of criticizm that only serves to keep a new, original and interesting character from becoming a prominent player, as if wasn't already hard enough for new characters at Marvel.

I remember Eli as a kid who wanted to be a hero, honour the legacy of the Avengers along with his friends and make his grandfather proud. He had an attitude with people (as most teenagers do) especially adults who tried to patronize him but he was loyal to his friends and a founding member of the Young Avengers.

I'd like to see Billy forming his own Main Avengers team and calling Eli, Tommy and Kate to join, it's past time they all reunite.

[NexusTenebrare]

About USAvengers: Literally the only thing that interests me there is Pod and Dr.Toni's possible romance and seeing Aikku kicking ass and showing more personality and character development.

About the Eli thing: (Sorry in advance for the rant )People need to leave Eli the **** alone. Saying that he had a "drug problem" is just disingenuous. He took MGH in order to fight crime, save lives and honour his grandfather's legacy. Eli didn't simply have a "drug problem" like many people say (which sounds as if he was smoking pot or snorting coke at parties), he took a drug that enhanced his physical abilities in order to be a hero. As far as heroes with shady backstories go, I'd say Eli doesn't look so bad at all specially considering how young he was.

The same goes for his anger problem. I don't have the time or patience to list all of the white characters at Marvel who could be described as angry and yet that has never stoped them from being featured in books, being members of a team and even having solo after solo (It's hard for me to remember a scene with Logan where he wasn't two steps away from beating his chest or growling and he's far from being the only one. That's a common trope, having male characters acting like a jerk and then excusing it by bringing up his troubled past and the people he's lost. **** that noise.) But Eli has the gall of having an attitude so he's an "angry black man stereotype" and need to be left out of comics forever.
That's without metioning all of the murderers, rapists and abusive characters that had a redemption arc and became heroes/heroines later. But having both an attitude and brown skin means they can't ever show up in a comic again. It's a double-standart and an unecessary extra level of criticizm that only serves to keep a new, original and interesting character from becoming a prominent player, as if wasn't already hard enough for new characters at Marvel.

I remember Eli as a kid who wanted to be a hero, honour the legacy of the Avengers along with his friends and make his grandfather proud. He had an attitude with people (as most teenagers do) especially adults who tried to patronize him but he was loyal to his friends and a founding member of the Young Avengers.

I'd like to see Billy forming his own Main Avengers team and calling Eli, Tommy and Kate to join, it's past time they all reunite.

I agree completely.
Actually, I never thought of Eli as all that angry. He had strong opinions and wasn't shy of expressing them, but angry? That was never something I thought of as a defining characteristic.

[Factor]

Yeah, Ewing was definitely setting up a relationship between Toni and Aikku. I just wish that LGBT characters would get included in a main Avengers series, it's always in Young Avengers, New Avengers, USAvengers, which all feel like off-shoot Avengers teams. But some might argue that there is no "main" Avengers series right now, but that's what I considered ANAD Avengers to be.

The closest we've had recently was Protector in the Heroic Age Avengers, but at the time I don't think he was identified as pansexual at all. I really want him back on the main Avengers now as Marvel Boy. He brings a fun outsider perspective that no older character really has anymore. Even someone like Odinson is already so accostumed to Earth, nothing is really new to him.
Noh-varr works great as a POV character and brings the much needed LGBT representation as well.

[Harpsikord]

The thing with Eli is that he's seen as a toxic, vitriolic stereotype and Marvel is actively trying to avoid that. I understand. I might not agree, even if I don't like Eli per se, but I understand.

In light of the idea of Billy and Teddy forming their own team I would adore if it were made up of former young Avengers. Maybe make it:

Wiccan (Billy Kaplan)
Hulkling (Teddy Altman)
Hawkeye (Kate Bishop)
Ms America (America Chavez)
Prodigy (David Alleyne)
Stinger (Cassie Lang)

Honestly, it isn't perfect, but it works. Alternatively, I'd say to sub David out for Noh, who was in this lineup originally but I felt like there needed to be more minority representation.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

The closest we've had recently was Protector in the Heroic Age Avengers, but at the time I don't think he was identified as pansexual at all. I really want him back on the main Avengers now as Marvel Boy. He brings a fun outsider perspective that no older character really has anymore. Even someone like Odinson is already so accostumed to Earth, nothing is really new to him.
Noh-varr works great as a POV character and brings the much needed LGBT representation as well.

Yeah, I forgot about Noh-Varr. I know he was a member of the "Dark Avengers", but I'm not aware of him being portrayed as bi or pansexual on any team other than Young Avengers.

[ZNOP]

Yeah, I forgot about Noh-Varr. I know he was a member of the "Dark Avengers", but I'm not aware of him being portrayed as bi or pansexual on any team other than Young Avengers.

Isn't Noh-Varr genetically part cockroach?

[dragonmp93]

Isn't Noh-Varr genetically part cockroach?

Thank you, i really needed a good laugh today.

[Tiamatty]

Isn't Noh-Varr genetically part cockroach?

Thank you, i really needed a good laugh today.

Comics!

The more incoherent a description of a comic gets, the better that comic is.

[Mah VM]

I agree completely.
Actually, I never thought of Eli as all that angry. He had strong opinions and wasn't shy of expressing them, but angry? That was never something I thought of as a defining characteristic.

He was young and had an attitude as many teenagers and teen characters do, Cassie for instance was just as "angry" (if not more) and yet, despite being dead for some time when she came back she was allowed to appear in books and had the opportunity to grow up, be developed and evolve as a character. (How well her character development has been is another conversation but at least she's around and has the opportunity to evolve.)

The thing with Eli is that he's seen as a toxic, vitriolic stereotype and Marvel is actively trying to avoid that. I understand. I might not agree, even if I don't like Eli per se, but I understand.

Loved your team roster.

The thing about stereotypes is that for a long time characters that represented minorities were reduced to a defining trait in order to make them a caricature of said minority. No other traits were presented and explored and they had no character development to speak of. Flamboyant gay characters are an example of caricatures used as comic relief. I completely understand how offensive this stereotypes are.

The thing that annoys me is when people (specially members of the minority in question) notice that a multifaceted interesting character that has a lot of character development and many traits explored and storylines has one character trait that has been used as a stereotype to reduce the characters that represent them to and make them seem shallow caricatures and what do they do with it? They reduce the character to that specific trait and start bitching about it. They, intentionally or not, reduce a multi-layered character to that one trait that they don't like and dismiss everything else, because reasons.

Titus from Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt is a multifaceted character but you wouldn't know about that from the many LGBT people on the internet whining and moaning about the character because he's flamboyant. How dare he? It's not like flamboyant LGBT men exist. Or like most gay male characters currently on TV are pretty masculine. But Titus just can't exist at all apparently. I remember people complaining about Billy's hair during Gillen's YA run because it didn't look like he had been through a hurricane anymore. "It was stereotypical" some said. ~facepalm~ The worst part is this extra scrutiny comes from within our communities and end up harming our representation intead of improving it.

My point is: It's already hard enough for POC and LGBTQIA+ characters to get any spotlight, become popular, avoid being killed off or relegated to limbo as is, the last thing we need is for people, however good their intentions might be, to be putting an extra level criticism on this characters and holding that against them, never allowing them to become popular by focusing on one single trait the character has and making other people who don't know the character think they are poorly written or a caricature.

Yeah, I forgot about Noh-Varr. I know he was a member of the "Dark Avengers", but I'm not aware of him being portrayed as bi or pansexual on any team other than Young Avengers.

He wasn't really portrayed as pan. He admitted to experimenting with men but he didn't disclosed what his conclusion after the experimentation was, whether he was into it or not. Of course considering that he didn't deny when Kate asked if she was the only straight on the team and he shared that right after MAC came out to them tells me that was his way of saying he's into men as well.
I hope the next writer to use him give him a male love interest.

[Wiccan]

People were saying Billy's hair was stereotypical? REALLY? I mean, it's not my favorite, but...

[Kieran_Frost]

Eh. Never been a massive fan of Eli, but I'd happily see him in USAvengers (since I won't be reading it) to make his fans happy.

I'm so passing on USAvengers. No Wiccan, Hulkling or Songbird? Those three were why I was reading NA. Cut them all and I'm out. I hope all three land somewhere.

Ditto. That book is DROPPED!

[Mah VM]

People were saying Billy's hair was stereotypical? REALLY? I mean, it's not my favorite, but...

One among many criticisms I've seen of his portrayal in Gillen's run that had way more to do with the reader's own insecurities than with the character.

Some men in our community will have a problem with any LGBT male character being anything less than the rugged manly man they always felt so pressured to be which is understandable but not the character's fault.

[Factor]

The thing with Eli is that he's seen as a toxic, vitriolic stereotype and Marvel is actively trying to avoid that. I understand. I might not agree, even if I don't like Eli per se, but I understand.

In light of the idea of Billy and Teddy forming their own team I would adore if it were made up of former young Avengers. Maybe make it:

Wiccan (Billy Kaplan)
Hulkling (Teddy Altman)
Hawkeye (Kate Bishop)
Ms America (America Chavez)
Prodigy (David Alleyne)
Stinger (Cassie Lang)

Honestly, it isn't perfect, but it works. Alternatively, I'd say to sub David out for Noh, who was in this lineup originally but I felt like there needed to be more minority representation.

Adding Power Man and White Tiger helps with representation and makes it a little different from just a YA reunion. AS two former Avengers Academy students, it makes sense for them to be among the "graduates" in a New Avengers book.

Yeah, I forgot about Noh-Varr. I know he was a member of the "Dark Avengers", but I'm not aware of him being portrayed as bi or pansexual on any team other than Young Avengers.

Yeah, and after Dark Avengers he actually joined the main team for a while.




That could have been cool under a better writer.