LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[MasterOfMagnetism]

Also, as far as Sulu goes, is it bad that I don't even care what Takei has to say about it one way or the other? He's not this version of Sulu, John Cho is and will be for the foreseeable future if these movies continue to be made. He's not involved anymore. It's literally that simple. He can spout off all he wants about it but his opinion is ultimately irrelevant.

All very true, but unfortunately Takei's words are being used by people to complain about including a gay character in this movie.

[Wiccan]

I don't ship America and Kate, and I don't even like the implication that America has feelings for her beyond anything that's platonic because why can't a gay chick and a straight chick just be friends.

To be honest, I think having feelings for a straight friend is something we can all relate to, so I kinda end up liking. It's just sad that most of the times it ends up just like real life: On nothing.

[Harpsikord]

All very true, but unfortunately Takei's words are being used by people to complain about including a gay character in this movie.

Yeah, I know... I'm honestly not sure that mister Takei thought this one through before speaking on it.

To be honest, I think having feelings for a straight friend is something we can all relate to, so I kinda end up liking. It's just sad that most of the times it ends up just like real life: On nothing.

Oh, I'm not saying it's not relatable or that it doesn't have it's place. It does. It very much does. It's just that it's something that's done too often and if I'm honest for America and Kate this seems to come out of absolutely nowhere.

[Kieran_Frost]

I don't ship America and Kate, and I don't even like the implication that America has feelings for her beyond anything that's platonic because why can't a gay chick and a straight chick just be friends.

I have lots of "gay/straight flirting/playful" relationships with my str8 male friends, and I wouldn't want people shipping us (my husband would be PISSED!!!) But I like playful banter, which is what I feel MAC has with Kate. Kate's like her "if you were, but you're not, so let's just be the best of friends" relationship.

[Mah VM]

Oh yeah, words can't express how disappointed I was with Takei. And that the fact that they did it to honor him, then he pretty much turned around and spat in their faces, giving trolls just another excuse to use against gay characters in popular movies.

I feel the same way. If only he knew what his words would be used for.

Also, as far as Sulu goes, is it bad that I don't even care what Takei has to say about it one way or the other? He's not this version of Sulu, John Cho is and will be for the foreseeable future if these movies continue to be made. He's not involved anymore. It's literally that simple. He can spout off all he wants about it but his opinion is ultimately irrelevant.

The ones that are using Takei's opinion as evidence of how wrong and ill concieved this was are the same people who'd be dismissing him if he had been happy about it with something like: "Who cares about what Takei thinks?"

It's just like they do with writers.

Claremont intended Wolverine, Storm and a bunch of other characters as Bi, so did many writers of Gambit and Deadpool. Their response: "If it isn't on panel it doesn't matter what they think. What does the word of a writer matters when there are many other writers that write those characters... It isn't canon and if it ever becomes it's a retcon!!!1"

Liefeld throws a fit over Shatterstar/Rictor and Stan Lee talks about the hubbub about Spider Man being gay or black. "See! The writers have spoken and thus shall it be. How can you argue with a writers intent? A writer's intent trumps everything!!!1 Shatterstar is straight and Spider Man can't ever ever EVER be gay!!!"

You can even see the same hypocrisy on the "GiveCapABoyfriend" when Chris Evans reacted positively to the hashtag "Oh, he was just being PC because he knew the SJW would attack him if he said anything else." and I'm sure they're already saying the same thing about Robert Downey Jr's reaction to Riri as the new Iron Man on social media and wherever else trolls dwell.

[Anduinel]

All very true, but unfortunately Takei's words are being used by people to complain about including a gay character in this movie.

Let 'em whine. Sulu is gay. It's filmed. It's public knowledge. It's canon. Paramount can't take it back, even if the film tanks. And it won't, because the same folks filling pages with their pissing and moaning are still gonna go see it. And Brian Fuller's gonna probably give us some all new LGBTQ characters when the new series hits, so we get the best of both worlds. Tra-la and be merry!

Also, Simon Pegg has a nicely thought-out rebuttal to George Takei's objections.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

Let 'em whine. Sulu is gay. It's filmed. It's public knowledge. It's canon. Paramount can't take it back, even if the film tanks. And it won't, because the same folks filling pages with their pissing and moaning are still gonna go see it.

Yeah, that's all true. I probably need to stop even looking at those kinds of threads anyways.

[ChaosIncarnate]

I vote for Wiccan as the best LGBT character in Marvel! I became a big fan of him when I read Young Avengers for the first time as a young teenager, and I think it's his relationship with Hulking that helped me come to terms with my own sexuality.

Great thread, Kieran! It's nice to see LGBT characters get so much love here.

[Wiccan]

I vote for Wiccan as the best LGBT character in Marvel! I became a big fan of him when I read Young Avengers for the first time as a young teenager, and I think it's his relationship with Hulking that helped me come to terms with my own sexuality.

Great thread, Kieran! It's nice to see LGBT characters get so much love here.

That's so nice to hear. Specially when you like his dad too

[ChaosIncarnate]

That's so nice to hear. Specially when you like his dad too

Yeah, Viz has been one of my faves, and Paul Bettany as the character, especially in Civil War, has cemented him as one of my favorite Avengers.

[Wiccan]

Yeah, Viz has been one of my faves, and Paul Bettany as the character, especially in Civil War, has cemented him as one of my favorite Avengers.

I could probably say the same about Wanda and Liz Olsen. #familygoals
I still wanted to see Wanda, Vision, Billy and Tommy together as a family, even if just for once.

[ChaosIncarnate]

I could probably say the same about Wanda and Liz Olsen. #familygoals
I still wanted to see Wanda, Vision, Billy and Tommy together as a family, even if just for once.

Yeah I can totally see a Young Avengers movie getting made somewhere down the line. A LOT is gonna have to be changed, but hey, that's just what has to happen. Like Wanda's certain heritage that has NOT been retconned in recent history, as far as I'm concerned.

Did you have any actors in mind for Billy and Tommy? I haven't thought up an actor for Billy, but in a dream world Keir Gilchrist (It Follows, United States of Tara, It's Kind of A Funny Story) would be Billy in film.

[Wiccan]

Yeah I can totally see a Young Avengers movie getting made somewhere down the line. A LOT is gonna have to be changed, but hey, that's just what has to happen. Like Wanda's certain heritage that has NOT been retconned in recent history, as far as I'm concerned.

Did you have any actors in mind for Billy and Tommy? I haven't thought up an actor for Billy, but in a dream world Keir Gilchrist (It Follows, United States of Tara, It's Kind of A Funny Story) would be Billy in film.

I was talking about the comics actually since they don't even explore that so much. But yeah I would die to see them on a movie too. I imagined a plot that is COMPLETELY different from the comics but I think bit could be nice...

I actually love to do fancasts, but I didn't really thought one for Billy, I mean, I did one or two and than thought "Nah, bad idea". I wonder if he and Tommy should have the same actor. I mean, they were described as looking like identical twins except for the hair.

A completely impossible one: Nicholas Houst like 10 years ago when he was doing skins. Just look at him and at my avatar:

[Kieran_Frost]

The ones that are using Takei's opinion as evidence of how wrong and ill concieved this was are the same people who'd be dismissing him if he had been happy about it with something like: "Who cares about what Takei thinks?"

It's just like they do with writers.

Claremont intended Wolverine, Storm and a bunch of other characters as Bi, so did many writers of Gambit and Deadpool. Their response: "If it isn't on panel it doesn't matter what they think. What does the word of a writer matters when there are many other writers that write those characters... It isn't canon and if it ever becomes it's a retcon!!!1"

Liefeld throws a fit over Shatterstar/Rictor and Stan Lee talks about the hubbub about Spider Man being gay or black. "See! The writers have spoken and thus shall it be. How can you argue with a writers intent? A writer's intent trumps everything!!!1 Shatterstar is straight and Spider Man can't ever ever EVER be gay!!!"

You can even see the same hypocrisy on the "GiveCapABoyfriend" when Chris Evans reacted positively to the hashtag "Oh, he was just being PC because he knew the SJW would attack him if he said anything else." and I'm sure they're already saying the same thing about Robert Downey Jr's reaction to Riri as the new Iron Man on social media and wherever else trolls dwell.

Sadly agreed bro, the hypocrisy is painfully evident. It's both frustrating (yet oddly amusing) that people on social media, like Twitter, truly believe we really can't see through the transparent bullsh*t excuses. Some don't want Sulu to be LGBT, period. It has nothing to do with "history" (Sulu has no real history of heterosexuality unlike most of the other crew, with countless love interests). The same protesters didn't care when Sulu's race was changed. They didn't care when Spock and Uhura got together (though they probably briefly objected to Quintos casting for... you know... reasons). They didn't care when Sulu got development and was made captain (did you hear anyone ask "but why didn't we see the transition). Hell they don't care about Sulu, period (maybe not even Star Trek). They object to a character they had no interest in being LGBT. Now is this ALL objections, no. Case and point: George. But I'd confidently say over half those objecting do some from an insidious place.

Let 'em whine. Sulu is gay. It's filmed. It's public knowledge. It's canon. Paramount can't take it back, even if the film tanks. And it won't, because the same folks filling pages with their pissing and moaning are still gonna go see it. And Brian Fuller's gonna probably give us some all new LGBTQ characters when the new series hits, so we get the best of both worlds. Tra-la and be merry!

Also, Simon Pegg has a nicely thought-out rebuttal to George Takei's objections.

Beautifully put, good sir (and NAILED IT, Mr Pegg!!!)

Oh, thank-you kindly.

I vote for Wiccan as the best LGBT character in Marvel! I became a big fan of him when I read Young Avengers for the first time as a young teenager, and I think it's his relationship with Hulking that helped me come to terms with my own sexuality.

You sir, have AMAZING taste!!! Wiccan & Hulkling are my favourite comic couple too. Below is a link to their appreciation thread on CBR. Enjoy!

Billy & Teddy's Excellent Adventure: WICCAN & HULKLING APPRECIATION
http://community.comicbookresources....g-Appreciation

Great thread, Kieran! It's nice to see LGBT characters get so much love here.

Awwww; you're so super sweet. Welcome to the thread.

[Dante Milton]

My fancast for Wiccan has just about aged out of the role as well, Paul Iacono, who as a happy bonus has been out since 2012.