View Poll Results: Who is your favourite 616 Marvel LGBT character?

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  • ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]

    22 3.27%
  • BLING! [Roxanne ‘Roxy’ Washington]

    12 1.79%
  • CULLEN BLOODSTONE

    20 2.98%
  • DAKEN AKIHIRO

    38 5.65%
  • HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]

    33 4.91%
  • KARMA [Xi’an Coy Mahn]

    37 5.51%
  • KAROLINA DEAN

    39 5.80%
  • LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief

    56 8.33%
  • MOONDRAGON [Heather Douglas]

    38 5.65%
  • MYSTIQUE [Raven Darkholme]

    100 14.88%
  • NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier]

    52 7.74%
  • PRODIGY [David Alleyne]

    20 2.98%
  • RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]

    33 4.91%
  • SHATTERSTAR [Gaveedra-7]

    40 5.95%
  • WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan], the Demiurge

    132 19.64%
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  1. #61
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    More Karolina Dean/Lightspeed goodness:

    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m56avmqm5Q1r20qrp.png
    http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...h-616)_001.jpg

    There's also this scene at Hercules's funeral. Northstar's reaction is "interesting:"

    http://www.herosandwich.net/wp-conte...-Northstar.jpg

  2. #62
    Mighty Member NexusTenebrare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaJay View Post
    I'm so glad Anole is finally getting some shine after years in the background.

    Favorite wise would be Cullen Bloodstone. I'm fairly glad that he's not a stereotype, but at the same time not so completely butch. Also it seems like he liked Aiden before his Celtic makeover so good on him.
    Yeah, I loved Anole cutting loose in that backup in X-Men. It's just a shame that it's just a few pages a month and that that backup will probably be over soon.
    It was great to see how well he's adapted to using his big arm as a brawler, given that he's originally more of a stealth fighter. And appearantly it packs quite the punch.

    I also agree with you on Cullen. It did seem like he was already interested in Aidan before the transformation. And Aidan was overweight then, so good on Cullen for seeing beyond looks. Still wish there could be an overweight super who isn't a joke character.

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlad View Post
    Thanks for this great thread Kieran! I voted for Wiccan too though I also love what PAD did with Shatterstar. Also dropped All New X-Factor mainly for budgetary reasons but it also did not grab me character-wise like the previous volume (though I love Polaris - will probably trade-wait).
    See, I'm the exact opposite. I really didn't like PAD's previous X-Factor. But I'm liking the new one quite well. It's not one of my favorite books, but to me it's miles better than the previous run. Of course it helps that unlike the other run, this one isn't full of characters I hate. PAD is even making me like Gambit again after that terrible creepy obsession with Laura that Liu wrote him with.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post

    I adore Ms. Victoria Hand!!!! I still need to see her two episodes of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.; no interest in the show but I really love the character and Saffron Burrows (who is herself a lesbian) was awesome in Boston Legal.

    Me too with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Also the character was rare and had great potential, a neoconservative lesbian who had government connections and hated superheroes and vigilantes
    Last edited by Mutant God; 05-30-2014 at 07:21 PM.
    Skeeter: Hey time traveling O5 members of the X-Men We don't take kindly to people who create a time paradox around here!

    Bartender: Now calm down Skeeter they aint hurtin nobody.

    Skeeter: No! I wanna know som'in from the "O5" How come you cant go back to your own timeline in the first place and how come when Reed Richards "fixed" the universe you wasnt put back and how come the changes that happn to you dont happn to your present day selves?

    Bartender: Skeeter I dont want trouble

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I started reading Avengers Undercover to see what Cullen was like (and... Zemo, who doesn't love him?); but I find myself enjoying Anachronism far more. I hope he helps Cullen see the light and redeem.
    Cullen is certainly a lot darker now than he was in ARENA. If you get the chance to read him in that series, you'll get a very different view of him. His experience in Murderworld has changed him quite a bit--as well as his post-Murderworld experiences with Hellstorm, I suspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Really don't like how Remender killed Marvel's first LGBT solo star (as I said, I don't like counting Mystique's series); BUT... despite not liking his current philosophy in Uncanny Avengers, I might try his event. I've never seen him write Storm, and I am curious if he'll do her justice.
    Yeah, I'm not really a huge fan of the way Remender writes Daken. I am enjoying the UNCANNY AVENGERS series overall though--but his Daken isn't exactly a bright point. But then, with the size of the cast, not everyone is going to get a chance to shine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    As in all things, I bow to your knowledge and have added him to the "Side Characters" list.
    You might want to hold off until we get confirmation from someone else. I am not exactly a Moon Knight expert and have had limited exposure to Detective Flint. On the other hand, if that wasn't intended to be him, I'm surprised Declan Shalvey drew a throwaway background character to look so much like an ongoing supporting character....[/QUOTE]

    I assume it's from this, but I'm not sure???

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks for that...although I'm still not quite sure where the LGBT implication comes from. Is it because he used the gender-neutral term "lover" rather than saying "girlfriend" (or boyfriend)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I adore Ms. Victoria Hand!!!! I still need to see her two episodes of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.; no interest in the show but I really love the character and Saffron Burrows (who is herself a lesbian) was awesome in Boston Legal.
    She actually was in 4 episodes, not 2--and Saffron Burrows was an impressive presence in each one.

  5. #65
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    Yeah, I loved Anole cutting loose in that backup in X-Men. It's just a shame that it's just a few pages a month and that that backup will probably be over soon.
    It was great to see how well he's adapted to using his big arm as a brawler, given that he's originally more of a stealth fighter. And appearantly it packs quite the punch.
    Brian Wood's X-kids were wonderful; so great to see a writer respecting them and writing them as skilled and tested hereos. I hope we can see more of that once Kyle&Yost take over Amazing X-men this week!

    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    Still wish there could be an overweight super who isn't a joke character.
    Agreed. Gert filled this role and was brilliant... alas...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant God View Post
    Also the character was rare and had great potential, a neoconservative lesbian who had government connections and hated superheroes and vigilantes
    QUOTED FOR TRUTH! She could be fierce (loved her giant gun), she could be commanding, practical and bold. Such a great character, such a loss...





    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Cullen is certainly a lot darker now than he was in ARENA. If you get the chance to read him in that series, you'll get a very different view of him. His experience in Murderworld has changed him quite a bit--as well as his post-Murderworld experiences with Hellstorm, I suspect.
    I'm hoping they release Avengers Arena as one giant omnibus; so I can get it in one fell swoop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Yeah, I'm not really a huge fan of the way Remender writes Daken. I am enjoying the UNCANNY AVENGERS series overall though--but his Daken isn't exactly a bright point. But then, with the size of the cast, not everyone is going to get a chance to shine.
    Remender's Daken (at-least in Uncanny X-force) was offensive on so many levels. Not only was he drowned in a puddle WHILE HIS FATHER IMAGES THE STRAIGHT LIFE HE SHOULD HAVE HAD!!! But Daken, the master of manipulation, was out-manipulated by Sabertooth. Remender writes some people really well, but Daken he fundamentally didn't understand...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Thanks for that...although I'm still not quite sure where the LGBT implication comes from. Is it because he used the gender-neutral term "lover" rather than saying "girlfriend" (or boyfriend)?
    Neither am I. Oddly I read this series, and I have no memory of him??? I assume it's confirmed (or spelled out who he means as "lover") in another page I couldn't find.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    She actually was in 4 episodes, not 2--and Saffron Burrows was an impressive presence in each one.
    I know the first is "the Hub"; do you know the names of the others?

  6. #66
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Not to get all argumentative but Daken was a sociopathic murderer, so being drowned --- or however else you manage to accomplish killing someone with a healing factor -- isn't so much offensive as it necessary.
    And Wolverine (ugh. I can't stand the guy) fantasizing about the life Daken could have had -- complete with a female prom date -- does not mean he wished Daken were straight. Daken IS allegedly BIseuxal, after all.

    Remender just wrote some "common" life event imagery for those scenes. Ease up.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I know the first is "the Hub"; do you know the names of the others?
    "The Hub"; "The Magical Place"; "End Of The Beginning" and "Turn, Turn, Turn".

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken
    Not to get all argumentative but Daken was a sociopathic murderer, so being drowned --- or however else you manage to accomplish killing someone with a healing factor -- isn't so much offensive as it necessary.
    And Wolverine (ugh. I can't stand the guy) fantasizing about the life Daken could have had -- complete with a female prom date -- does not mean he wished Daken were straight. Daken IS allegedly BIseuxal, after all.

    Remender just wrote some "common" life event imagery for those scenes. Ease up.
    Yeah, I'd have to agree with this. I can understand people being upset at it, but it isn't necessarily offensive. The main thing I have an issue with is the other point Kieran raised--that being about Daken's own skills as a manipulator. It seems like that side of his character was under-estimated here, for him to be Sabretooth's pawn. That being said, it would be unreasonable to think that it is impossible for Daken to be immune to manipulation himself just because he also does it to others. But I think the biggest issue is that Daken's solo book earned him a number of fans...who were not happy to see the character killed off in such a manner. He went from being the star of his own book, to being a plot point.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post


    Yeah, I'd have to agree with this. I can understand people being upset at it, but it isn't necessarily offensive. The main thing I have an issue with is the other point Kieran raised--that being about Daken's own skills as a manipulator. It seems like that side of his character was under-estimated here, for him to be Sabretooth's pawn. That being said, it would be unreasonable to think that it is impossible for Daken to be immune to manipulation himself just because he also does it to others. But I think the biggest issue is that Daken's solo book earned him a number of fans...who were not happy to see the character killed off in such a manner. He went from being the star of his own book, to being a plot point.
    Agreed. In THAT regard, Daken was definitely written like a chump.

  9. #69
    Mighty Member NexusTenebrare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Agreed. In THAT regard, Daken was definitely written like a chump.
    To be fair, that isn't just on Rememder. Throughout his on page appearances Daken has had a wildly varrying level of intelligence. Outside of his own series, he's been used as a low level grunt almost as much as he has a master manipulator. I blame writers not getting the memo that he's supposed to be the latter. And yes, Remender was guilty of that, but he was far from the only one.

  10. #70
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Not to get all argumentative but Daken was a sociopathic murderer, so being drowned --- or however else you manage to accomplish killing someone with a healing factor -- isn't so much offensive as it necessary.
    a) but he's not "just" a sociopathic murderer, he's ALSO Marvel's first real LGBT on-going solo star. That does matter; and that was ignored. It doesn't make him immune from death just because he's bi (no-one should be), but the way he died... I found it offensive, personally. He's chumped out by Sabertooth (come on, it's not like Moonstone or even Mystique, people known for manipulating someone), drown in a puddle (the drowning not the part that's upsetting, the puddle is the upsetting part), THEN Wolverine let's Sabertooth live saying "death is not the answer" (so to be clear: the book made said Daken > Sabertooth in terms of evil, and THAT is also wrong). Add in the "straight dream" (would it have been sooooo hard for Daken to take a man and woman to the prom, that would be VERY Daken) and the fact his grave says nothing but "mongrel" ("my son" would have been more powerful). UGH! Everything about it was wrong. The first LGBT on-going solo star deserved better... and (based on Remender's use of Alex and his mouth-piece on minority issues) I'm very unsurprised it happened.
    b) Daken had built a giant water tanker to drown Wolverine in, Remender could have used that. A puddle was unnecessary on every level.

    But of-course debate this, a debate is good; and I AM biased as a major fan of Daken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    And Wolverine (ugh. I can't stand the guy) fantasizing about the life Daken could have had -- complete with a female prom date -- does not mean he wished Daken were straight. Daken IS allegedly BIseuxal, after all.
    Why "allegedly"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    "The Hub"; "The Magical Place"; "End Of The Beginning" and "Turn, Turn, Turn".
    Thank-you kindly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Yeah, I'd have to agree with this. I can understand people being upset at it, but it isn't necessarily offensive. The main thing I have an issue with is the other point Kieran raised--that being about Daken's own skills as a manipulator. It seems like that side of his character was under-estimated here, for him to be Sabretooth's pawn. That being said, it would be unreasonable to think that it is impossible for Daken to be immune to manipulation himself just because he also does it to others. But I think the biggest issue is that Daken's solo book earned him a number of fans...who were not happy to see the character killed off in such a manner. He went from being the star of his own book, to being a plot point.
    Not just that, but Remender ignored Daken's solo series. Daken had been specifically moved beyond "daddy issues". I think the reason I find it offensive is not only did Remender kill off the first real LGBT on-going solo star but he never even acknowledged his sexuality (and the important milestone Daken represented). Which is why the dream's offensive; Remender kills the first LGBT solo star and acknowledges only his straight side.

    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    To be fair, that isn't just on Rememder. Throughout his on page appearances Daken has had a wildly varrying level of intelligence. Outside of his own series, he's been used as a low level grunt almost as much as he has a master manipulator. I blame writers not getting the memo that he's supposed to be the latter. And yes, Remender was guilty of that, but he was far from the only one.
    Yes and no. In Dark Avengers Daken's manipulation was never focused on BUT he wasn't out manipulated either. Daken as a master manipulated never really came out in anything but his solo series and in other comic by either Marjorie Liu or Daniel Way BUT him being out-manipulated ONLY happened under Remender.

  11. #71
    Junior Member Mathieu B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Agreed; though I'm not sure which comic I'd add them to? Amazing X-men probably; not sure any of the others feel right for them.
    You're right; not many of the current team books feel right for them right now. I don't think that Amazing X-Men is a good fit, mostly because it's more mainstream and "classic" X-Men characters. Maybe X-Force? Or even back on X-Factor down the line somewhere (in a Mojoworld story! :P)
    XMenGold XMenBlue GenX Cable Iceman AstonishingXMen UncannyAvengers SpectacularSpiderMan SecretWarriors DoctorStrange
    TheFlash Nightwing Supersons TeenTitans Aquaman Deathstroke WildStorm Saga Wicked+Divine Low Descender KillorbeKilled SeventoEternity

  12. #72
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathieu B View Post
    You're right; not many of the current team books feel right for them right now. I don't think that Amazing X-Men is a good fit, mostly because it's more mainstream and "classic" X-Men characters. Maybe X-Force? Or even back on X-Factor down the line somewhere (in a Mojoworld story! :P)
    This was my problem too, I couldn't think where they would fit. They don't really seem like teachers to me (but hell... neither do half the faculty ), but nor assassins. Not really right for Cyclop's Revolution, nor anything to do with the 05. They aren't female... so honestly the only book left is Amazing X-men; which is very fun. I can see Shatterstar swashbuckling joyfully against pirates.

  13. #73
    Justified Ancient of MuMu wonderlad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    We see very eye-to-eye it seems. You reading Loki: Agent of Asgard?
    No I have not been - but you have me sold )

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Why "allegedly"?
    Well, it may be that he's simply a hedonistic, sadistic bastard who likes making people do whatever he wants. Is he bisexual, or is sex simply a tool to him and he doesn't really care? I'm inclined to think a bit of both - he often uses sex as a tool, but I think he does also sometimes do it because it's fun.

    Yes and no. In Dark Avengers Daken's manipulation was never focused on BUT he wasn't out manipulated either. Daken as a master manipulated never really came out in anything but his solo series and in other comic by either Marjorie Liu or Daniel Way BUT him being out-manipulated ONLY happened under Remender.
    Actually, I felt like Rob Williams was the first writer to show Daken get outright outplayed. He did eventually manage to get the better of that evil actor dude, but only after he'd been totally defeated first.

    However, Remender did have him getting played way too easily by Sabretooth. Sabretooth's not stupid, obviously, and he's spent the past few years being built up as a lot more clever than a lot of writers did with him. But even so, Daken probably shouldn't have been taken in so totally by Sabretooth.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Well, it may be that he's simply a hedonistic, sadistic bastard who likes making people do whatever he wants. Is he bisexual, or is sex simply a tool to him and he doesn't really care? I'm inclined to think a bit of both - he often uses sex as a tool, but I think he does also sometimes do it because it's fun.
    And that's an odd aside about several of these characters. Are Daken or Mystique really attracted to both genders, or are they just mercenary enough to play whatever level of game it takes to use people? In either case, they aren't exactly shining examples of LGBT, since they are predatory users, and fit uncomfortably well into the Depraved Bisexual or Psycho Lesbian trope. (Mystique, for instance, seemed to have a genuine relationship with / attraction to Destiny. But did she ever really find any of her male partners sexually attractive, or did she just use most of them?)

    There are quite a few comic book characters who have either off-handedly mentioned same-sex shenanigans past (such as Noh-Varr), but never shown the slightest interest in actually pursuing one (or shown any attraction in their own gender) who feel kind of 'iffy' to me to claim as representing anything other than lazy writing. Similarly, just because Deadpool has worn a woman's clothing once or twice, I'd hardly call him a transvestite, any more than I'd call Hawkeye a naturist because he's been naked a time or two before.

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