LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[ZNOP]

Magical treatment (flashback scene) in issue #3 of Angela: Asgard's Assassin.

Thank's, I have that but haven't read it as of yet... dd that I'm missing issues 1 & 2 though...

[Tiamatty]

So far behind on WicDiv. Still need to read the second TPB (damn fringe taking me away; but I'm back and hoping this weekend to binge of WicDiv).

The end of the second trade will make you cry. Then the third trade has one of the greatest single issues I've ever read. Tara. F*cking Tara.

I did invest a lot in Toni/Aikku, one of the surprise enjoyments of New Avengers. LOVING the Midnight Angels also; that series is just so good in general. Not read either Hellcat or Silk; worth picking up?

Hellcat: YES. Yes yes yes yes yes. So good. It is a wonderful comic. So much fun. Light and bright and silly and fun, but still full of heart. It's adorable and hilarious and just so great. And, yeah, it has two guys who so clearly need to start dating, and want to start dating, but neither is sure how to bring it up and it's great.

For Silk, I think it's worth picking up. Robbie Thompson's doing a great job writing her, making her so fundamentally screwed up on so many levels, but also someone who keeps trying to live her life without curling into a ball of sadness and anger and loneliness and despair. Or, without curling into that ball too often. One of the things I love about the book is that it's a rare example of a superhero seeing a therapist. A lot of issues are actually framed as her telling her therapist the events of the issue, and the therapist helping her to understand her complicated feelings on the things she's going through. I think Tana Ford's art probably turns some people off - it's a very indie art style - but I like it. It's very expressive. Ford's got a great knack for facial expressions. She's also a lesbian, herself, and was actually in the process of making the third volume of her Duck! series of graphic novels, when she got the offer to do Silk. Which leaves me torn between frustration at the delays to Duck! and happiness for Ford getting steady work at one of the Big Two. Mostly, I'm happy for her. She's a good artist, and seems like a cool person, so she deserves this.

Woah, woah, woah! I'd argue Bendis is one of THE BEST writers when it comes to LGBT at Marvel. Daken was (arguably) the first openly LGBT Avengers (i.e. being on a team once the character has been confirmed LGBT), though the team doesn't official count as Avengers - Bendis. Victoria Hand - Bendis. Benjamin Morph - Bendis. Iceman - Bendis (and that one was HUGE!). I agree he doesn't really do LGBT relationships (outside of Victoria Hand, and they didn't kiss from memory). But he has one of the better track records (and has for years) of including LGBT characters (where their sexuality actually comes up).

Ehh, I'm not sure I agree. Yeah, he's included LGBT characters in some of his comics. But he also keeps them single. Sure, he included Daken in Dark Avengers, and had him flirt constantly with Bullseye. But Daken's a depraved bisexual, something that always makes me uncomfortable, and the flirting with Bullseye felt like it was almost a comedic thing. "Ha ha, look how uncomfortable Bullseye is, maybe that says something about him, huh?" Meh. Victoria Hand had a girlfriend in a flashback, and then I don't know if her sexuality even got mentioned again. Morph being gay was rarely mentioned. Iceman came out right at the end of Bendis' X-Men work, when it meant he wouldn't have to actually deal with any of the follow-up. And, of course, Angela and Gamora flirted constantly in GotG, with nothing ever coming of it, and I've no doubt the same thing will happen in the current volume.

At some point, playful flirting that's never meant to go anywhere stops being enough, and I think Bendis has passed that point. I don't know if he does better in his creator-owned stuff. Maybe Powers has same-sex couples. I honestly have no idea. But his mainstream Marvel work has been disappointingly lacking in terms of allowing LGBT characters actually having romantic lives, and I think he needs to do better. The easiest way for him to do better would be to have Sera appear in GotG. Even just for an arc. Three issues. That's all I ask. Have Sera help the team out for three issues, and include romantic content between Sera and Angela during that arc, including at least one kiss. Just to show an LGBT character being intimate with their same-sex significant other. Something I have not seen from Bendis before.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

HAHAHAHAHA! Lordy lord, you could have sent me one, you know! RECTIFIED! Happy! I expect daily messages of praise!

Awww man, now you've ruined my long-running joke by actually sending me a friend request! LOL I never sent you one 'cause THAT WAS THE JOKE! Don't worry though I've always considered you a friend, Kieran. You were a friend to me almost literally from when I first started posting on this site. Thanks for sending me a friend request...







...finally.

[Kieran_Frost]

The end of the second trade will make you cry. Then the third trade has one of the greatest single issues I've ever read. Tara. F*cking Tara.

Hellcat: YES. Yes yes yes yes yes. So good. It is a wonderful comic. So much fun. Light and bright and silly and fun, but still full of heart. It's adorable and hilarious and just so great. And, yeah, it has two guys who so clearly need to start dating, and want to start dating, but neither is sure how to bring it up and it's great.

For Silk, I think it's worth picking up. Robbie Thompson's doing a great job writing her, making her so fundamentally screwed up on so many levels, but also someone who keeps trying to live her life without curling into a ball of sadness and anger and loneliness and despair. Or, without curling into that ball too often. One of the things I love about the book is that it's a rare example of a superhero seeing a therapist. A lot of issues are actually framed as her telling her therapist the events of the issue, and the therapist helping her to understand her complicated feelings on the things she's going through. I think Tana Ford's art probably turns some people off - it's a very indie art style - but I like it. It's very expressive. Ford's got a great knack for facial expressions. She's also a lesbian, herself, and was actually in the process of making the third volume of her Duck! series of graphic novels, when she got the offer to do Silk. Which leaves me torn between frustration at the delays to Duck! and happiness for Ford getting steady work at one of the Big Two. Mostly, I'm happy for her. She's a good artist, and seems like a cool person, so she deserves this.

Thank-you for the recommendations. I mighty try the TBP of Hellcat, I like the character, and it makes me think of Soule's She-Hulk (my favouirte solo series since Loki's Journey into Mystery and Asmus' Gambit); so that's a GOOD thing. Is the art fun? Is it crisp and clean? I don't like "stylized" art (in most cases, LOVE Skottie Young).

Ehh, I'm not sure I agree. Yeah, he's included LGBT characters in some of his comics. But he also keeps them single. Sure, he included Daken in Dark Avengers, and had him flirt constantly with Bullseye. But Daken's a depraved bisexual, something that always makes me uncomfortable, and the flirting with Bullseye felt like it was almost a comedic thing. "Ha ha, look how uncomfortable Bullseye is, maybe that says something about him, huh?" Meh. Victoria Hand had a girlfriend in a flashback, and then I don't know if her sexuality even got mentioned again. Morph being gay was rarely mentioned. Iceman came out right at the end of Bendis' X-Men work, when it meant he wouldn't have to actually deal with any of the follow-up. And, of course, Angela and Gamora flirted constantly in GotG, with nothing ever coming of it, and I've no doubt the same thing will happen in the current volume.

At some point, playful flirting that's never meant to go anywhere stops being enough, and I think Bendis has passed that point. I don't know if he does better in his creator-owned stuff. Maybe Powers has same-sex couples. I honestly have no idea. But his mainstream Marvel work has been disappointingly lacking in terms of allowing LGBT characters actually having romantic lives, and I think he needs to do better. The easiest way for him to do better would be to have Sera appear in GotG. Even just for an arc. Three issues. That's all I ask. Have Sera help the team out for three issues, and include romantic content between Sera and Angela during that arc, including at least one kiss. Just to show an LGBT character being intimate with their same-sex significant other. Something I have not seen from Bendis before.

I think you're being overly harsh. I do agree it would be nice to see him up his game... BUT... let's not pretend what the current crop of Marvel writers track record (on LGBT inclusion) looks like, when compared to Bendis. He's still ahead of the pack. Is Bendis as good as Gillen, Fraction, Liu, Petr David? No. Is he far off? No; if romance is really the only thing he's missing, he's not far off.

Think of it this way, not only was Bendis including LGBT characters before it was cool, he is part of some major "firsts" for LGBT rep. Al Ewing, UNTIL NEW AVENGERS, had a track record that made Bendis' comics look like a gay pride parade (which is hilarious when you consider Ewing was supposedly writing an LGBT solo comic). Bendis has done his part across numerous series (few writers can say that). Bendis has been doing it consistently far longer than most mainstream Marvel/DC writers. And if all writers had been doing as good a job as Bendis, our LGBT rep at Marvel would be vastly better than is it right now. Give me Bendis over Hickman's AWFUL understanding of LGBT rep, or Brubaker, or even Warren Ellis (at Marvel).

Now does this give Bendis an infinity pass? No. He does need to start upping his game (in terms of LGBT romance, and focal characters; I don't think any of his leads have been LGBT) BUT you're being way too harsh. It's been less than a year/just over a year(?) since we had our first EVER A-list gay character revealed... that's... thanks... to Bendis. I think outing Iceman does buy him a little bit of a "laurel resting" window, no?

Awww man, now you've ruined my long-running joke by actually sending me a friend request! LOL I never sent you one 'cause THAT WAS THE JOKE! Don't worry though I've always considered you a friend, Kieran. You were a friend to me almost literally from when I first started posting on this site. Thanks for sending me a friend request...

[MasterOfMagnetism]

Haha, I was waiting for your response buddy.

[Tiamatty]

Thank-you for the recommendations. I mighty try the TBP of Hellcat, I like the character, and it makes me think of Soule's She-Hulk (my favouirte solo series since Loki's Journey into Mystery and Asmus' Gambit); so that's a GOOD thing. Is the art fun? Is it crisp and clean? I don't like "stylized" art (in most cases, LOVE Skottie Young).

The art in Hellcat is adorable. Brittney Williams and Megan Wilson are doing great work. It's bright and fun and expressive. Williams does tend to go a chibi route pretty regularly, which seems to turn some people off, but I find it cute. Here's some examples:

Catball Special!
catballspecial (2).jpg

Even the drama is cute.
glasspush (2).jpg

And here's supporting character Tom Hale singing Ursula's theme at karaoke, because that's the kind of comic this is:
anasty (2).jpg

I think you're being overly harsh. I do agree it would be nice to see him up his game... BUT... let's not pretend what the current crop of Marvel writers track record (on LGBT inclusion) looks like, when compared to Bendis. He's still ahead of the pack. Is Bendis as good as Gillen, Fraction, Liu, Petr David? No. Is he far off? No; if romance is really the only thing he's missing, he's not far off.

I just kinda feel like "acknowledges that LGBT people exist" is bit too low to be hanging the bar. But mostly, I'm just annoyed that I have absolutely no reason, at all, to expect Sera to ever pop up in GotG, despite the Angela/Sera romance being a wonderful thing. Sera should show up. Logically, she should show up at some point. But Bendis almost certainly will never even mention Sera, because Bendis, for all that he's fine with LGBT characters being in his books, has shown a great reluctance to let those characters have romantic lives. And that sucks. Let Angela have a tender moment with Sera! Or if nothing else, at least let Angela and Gamora act on their playful flirting. Why the hell not?

[myeldermoon]

The end of the second trade will make you cry. Then the third trade has one of the greatest single issues I've ever read. Tara. F*cking Tara.


Hellcat: YES. Yes yes yes yes yes. So good. It is a wonderful comic. So much fun. Light and bright and silly and fun, but still full of heart. It's adorable and hilarious and just so great. And, yeah, it has two guys who so clearly need to start dating, and want to start dating, but neither is sure how to bring it up and it's great.

For Silk, I think it's worth picking up. Robbie Thompson's doing a great job writing her, making her so fundamentally screwed up on so many levels, but also someone who keeps trying to live her life without curling into a ball of sadness and anger and loneliness and despair. Or, without curling into that ball too often. One of the things I love about the book is that it's a rare example of a superhero seeing a therapist. A lot of issues are actually framed as her telling her therapist the events of the issue, and the therapist helping her to understand her complicated feelings on the things she's going through. I think Tana Ford's art probably turns some people off - it's a very indie art style - but I like it. It's very expressive. Ford's got a great knack for facial expressions. She's also a lesbian, herself, and was actually in the process of making the third volume of her Duck! series of graphic novels, when she got the offer to do Silk. Which leaves me torn between frustration at the delays to Duck! and happiness for Ford getting steady work at one of the Big Two. Mostly, I'm happy for her. She's a good artist, and seems like a cool person, so she deserves this.


Ehh, I'm not sure I agree. Yeah, he's included LGBT characters in some of his comics. But he also keeps them single. Sure, he included Daken in Dark Avengers, and had him flirt constantly with Bullseye. But Daken's a depraved bisexual, something that always makes me uncomfortable, and the flirting with Bullseye felt like it was almost a comedic thing. "Ha ha, look how uncomfortable Bullseye is, maybe that says something about him, huh?" Meh. Victoria Hand had a girlfriend in a flashback, and then I don't know if her sexuality even got mentioned again. Morph being gay was rarely mentioned. Iceman came out right at the end of Bendis' X-Men work, when it meant he wouldn't have to actually deal with any of the follow-up. And, of course, Angela and Gamora flirted constantly in GotG, with nothing ever coming of it, and I've no doubt the same thing will happen in the current volume.

At some point, playful flirting that's never meant to go anywhere stops being enough, and I think Bendis has passed that point. I don't know if he does better in his creator-owned stuff. Maybe Powers has same-sex couples. I honestly have no idea. But his mainstream Marvel work has been disappointingly lacking in terms of allowing LGBT characters actually having romantic lives, and I think he needs to do better. The easiest way for him to do better would be to have Sera appear in GotG. Even just for an arc. Three issues. That's all I ask. Have Sera help the team out for three issues, and include romantic content between Sera and Angela during that arc, including at least one kiss. Just to show an LGBT character being intimate with their same-sex significant other. Something I have not seen from Bendis before.

fucking tara destroyed me, wicked and the divine is such a briliant book, it´s realy one of my biggest art and writing inspirations

[Tayswift]

I just kinda feel like "acknowledges that LGBT people exist" is bit too low to be hanging the bar. But mostly, I'm just annoyed that I have absolutely no reason, at all, to expect Sera to ever pop up in GotG, despite the Angela/Sera romance being a wonderful thing. Sera should show up. Logically, she should show up at some point. But Bendis almost certainly will never even mention Sera, because Bendis, for all that he's fine with LGBT characters being in his books, has shown a great reluctance to let those characters have romantic lives. And that sucks. Let Angela have a tender moment with Sera! Or if nothing else, at least let Angela and Gamora act on their playful flirting. Why the hell not?

agree. We need more than the presence of a LGBT character, we need to see them having a romantic life just as their straight peers. It was really brave from Bendis to out icemen, and I applaud him for it.
Gamora seems out of limits since she is on movies...ok that movies doesn't follow comics so close. what is up with bendis now acknowledging other people's solo work?

[Lucena Soares]

fucking tara destroyed me, wicked and the divine is such a briliant book, it´s realy one of my biggest art and writing inspirations

Commercial Suicide (the issue's name) destroyed us all till all was left were pool's of tears. Best issue in the whole series. And then after it there was Woden's solo issue, now that's how you make an issue be th F*cking Worst completely on purpose and to serve the history.
Also, Gillen just finished the second issue of his next secret Marvel series.

[zinderel]

NEW TOPIC: what LGBT comic are posters most enjoying right now (doesn't have to be LGBT lead, it's Marvel, chance would be a fine thing), but what comic with some form of LGBT goodness have you squealing?

I'm rather enjoying the webcomic The Young Protectors: http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/typ/ete_title_page/

Despite the word 'yaoi' in the address, there isn't any porniness to the strip, and it READS like a proper comic book, with well-done art, plotting and characters I've come to care about. I just wish it came out more often!!

[Lucena Soares]

I'm rather enjoying the webcomic The Young Protectors: http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/typ/ete_title_page/

Despite the word 'yaoi' in the address, there isn't any porniness to the strip, and it READS like a proper comic book, with well-done art, plotting and characters I've come to care about. I just wish it came out more often!!

Yes, it's a very good one. I take break's from reading it so i don't have to read 2 pages a week. I also recommend Artifice that's in the same site and by the same author, just look up in archives.

[zinderel]

LOVED Artifice! Another very good story, though it's a one-and-done, so far. But there are fun easter eggs now and then in Young Protectors, so...

Also, if anyone plays that Marvel Future Fight game, I play it under the same name. My 'team' right now is Hulkling, Wiccan and Loki. Hulkling's 6 star and Mastered, and Wiccan's almost there too.

[Tiamatty]

Oh, if we're including webcomics.

Agents of the Realm, by Mildred Louis, a college-aged Magical Girls comic with plenty of lesbians.

Mooncakes, by Suzanne Walker and Wendy Xu, "a (queer, Chinese-American) paranormal romance," as it describes itself.

Spinnerette, about a lesbian superhero in Ohio.

Rain, by Jocelyn Samara, a slice-of-life about a trans girl at a religious high school, and her circle of friends from all across the LGBT spectrum.

Idolon, by Kiki Jenkins, about . . . um, I'll tell you when I figure it out? It's strange. Pretty dark, lots of mysteries. Lots of lesbians, again. (Look, I'm a straight guy, lesbians are just easier for me to enjoy than gay men, it's not something I'm proud of and it's something I'm trying to push back against, but in the meantime, lesbian romance comics, OK?) As a warning, some of the strips are very much NSFW.

And finally, Sunstone, by Stjepan Seijic. Either a romance story about lesbian bondage, or a lesbian bondage story about romance. Not even remotely safe for work, unless you work from home, and maybe not even then. If you want to read it on DeviantArt, you need an account to view the NSFW pages.

(Bonus comic: Oglaf. Spectacularly NSFW. I've linked to the first SFW comic. There is every kind of sex in this comic. Including several kinds that don't exist.)

[Wiccan]

I was reading a gay(yaoi) webcomic once but it was so weird and abusive... It wasn't completely terrible though.

[Lucena Soares]

http://monsterkind.enenkay.com/
Has characters across all the spectrum. Cutest thing ever.
http://hotbloodcomic.com/
Gay centaurs in the Old West. The NSFW are paid.
http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/
Wonderfull comedy with pop culture parodies and a bisexual male lead.
http://www.blackgrasscomic.com/
This one just starting.
http://www.cansofbeans.com/
My dearest lifeblood that has just left it's hiatus!
http://www.dumbingofage.com/
Essential reading.