LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Fokken]

Except no. The reason Kamala even got a solo was because Sana Amanat was willing to advocate for its existence and once it was approved she made sure it was marketed in a way that helped it find an audience. There doesn't seem to be anyone on the editorial end who is willing to make the same effort for LGBT characters.



Again, no they don't. As an example, there was no "evidence" when they launched Ms. Marvel that it would sell. They have no data that their LGBT characters (many of whom I would say are more popular/ well known than DC's LGBT characters) wouldn't sell because they have been completely unwilling or uninterested in making a solo. If anything there has been a very vocal group of fans who have made it clear they would support a MAC solo for some time now and Marvel still refuses to try to make it happen. I think it's pretty clear that the current editorial regime at Marvel do not care about LGBT representation beyond receiving a diversity cookie for acknowledging every once in a while that we exist.

I don't/can't believe that the absence of an LGBT solo is that cut and dry.
Yes, of course, Sana Amanat championed for the creation/promotion/success of Kamala Kahn. But how many people even knew about Sana Amanat until Kamala was announced/hinted/advertised? There may be someone actively campaigning on behalf of LGBTQA heroes and potential solo recognition -- then again, there may not. Perhaps there hasn't been a good pitch. Perhaps there are any number of other contributing factors hindering such a title to exist at this specific time.
Our NOT knowing does not thereby ASSURE an absence of interest/appreciation/campaigning. I would think that many writers within the Marvel umbrella continually pitch ideas and stories and books --- loads of them that never reach fruition. The complexities of these publishing giants and the intricacies of their internal politics is likely far more elaborate than we're willing to even consider. It isn't just a club house of dudes sitting around going "Wolverine is the ****!! MOAR WOLVERINE!" or whomever is Marvel flavor of the year. There are soooo many things to consider in tackling NEW projects. The pitch, the availability of characters, scheduling, artist availability, how/if it will affect the other Marvel titles and/or the Marvel U at large, etc etc etc.

Speaking again to alleged "lack" of voice within the company arguing for LGBTQA representation of the solo variety (because, again, we HAVE LGBTQA heroes, just not on solo books) -- there is no evidence. A lack of evidence doesn't mean its being dismissed or ignored or even avoided. The same could be said about ANYTHING lacking solo representation.
Why isn't there a Skrull solo title? Why isn't there a Hawaiian solo hero? Australian? Handicapable? Toddler? Simply because they do not currently exist does not mean that someone hasn't come up with an idea for them -- but perhaps said idea didn't make it past the necessary qualifications and criteria required by Marvel.
I still crave and hope for an LGBTQA title to find its way into the Marvel publishing line in the future, but I don't want it crafted on a half assed idea only to flounder and fail. And until it happens, I will find comfort and enjoyment in those who've assigned my beloved characters to their respective rosters and fostered them -- keeping them exposed to readers and developing them for a potential solo future.

Call it naivety.
I call it hopeful.

[Wiccan]

For some reason I'd forgotten that Kamala wasn't G. Willow Wilson's creation.

And re: Billy, I don't think that matters. He could easily court a crowd that reads manga and YA novels if they found a decent writer and geared him toward it.

I think a duo book with Hulkling would be better. A couple of two cute gay teen heroes? Fangirls would love it... If they found out about their existence.

[Dante Milton]

I do recognize that there are a variety of factors involved. However, knowing the talent that Marvel has at their disposal, and knowing that there are a good number of writers who are very vocal in their support of the LGBT community (if not a member of the community themselves), I just find it very hard to believe that they haven't received a viable pitch.

[Fokken]

I think a duo book with Hulkling would be better. A couple of two cute gay teen heroes? Fangirls would love it... If they found out about their existence.

I'm really looking forward to DC's Apollo/Midnighter miniseries to get a stronger idea of well such a title would work/succeed.

[NewMutant]

I'm really looking forward to DC's Apollo/Midnighter miniseries to get a stronger idea of well such a title would work/succeed.

We've had duo series before. Cable and Deadpool, Power Man and Iron Fist, etc. Or if it needs to be romantic Hawkeye and Mockingbird, Green Arrow and Black Carnary, etc. Shouldn't be any different just because its a gay couple. But obviously I'm ecstatic about the Midnighter & Apollo series.

[legion_quest]

I do recognize that there are a variety of factors involved. However, knowing the talent that Marvel has at their disposal, and knowing that there are a good number of writers who are very vocal in their support of the LGBT community (if not a member of the community themselves), I just find it very hard to believe that they haven't received a viable pitch.

This is where I wonder if the point made in the article a few pages back, about vocal communities who lash out at anyone, even if they are trying to do something good but might get something wrong etc and so get attacked mercilessly, might come in to play.

Not to mention all the criticism and anger from fans who want to accuse you of banging an agenda drum or damaging their child hoods, or their children's child hoods.

If I was a writer, I'm not sure I could be bothered to accept/deal with all that.

[nj06]

Ayo & Aneka: The Midnight Angels!

[Star_Jammer]

This is where I wonder if the point made in the article a few pages back, about vocal communities who lash out at anyone, even if they are trying to do something good but might get something wrong etc and so get attacked mercilessly, might come in to play.

Not to mention all the criticism and anger from fans who want to accuse you of banging an agenda drum or damaging their child hoods, or their children's child hoods.

If I was a writer, I'm not sure I could be bothered to accept/deal with all that.

Riri Williams was met with criticism...from members of the black community.

I'd imagine it can be very daunting, in either direction.

[Tiamatty]

Anyone think there might be a chance that Jennifer Walters' new gray persona isn't straight?

Doubtful. Because it's not a "new persona." She's still Jennifer Walters. She's just a Jennifer Walters who's grieving and angry.

[Dermie]

I never got the impression that Daken actually gave a damn about Johnny or Mystique. He was playing Johnny, because he found it entertaining.

It may have started out that way, but it became more than that. Daken definitely felt some friendship for Johnny--you can see more evidence of that in the later issues of his series, when he was messed up on those drugs. Daken had a dream sequence or hallucination or something (its been a while since I last read those issues) with Johnny in it that indicated an affection he held for him.

You're definitely not wrong about Daken being a nasty, manipulative person. But there is at least some potential in him for redemption--even if it is unlikely.

[Tiamatty]

Oh, as an aside, it might be worth noting that Mariko Tamaki, writer of the upcoming Hulk solo about Jen Walters, is gay. It's important to show appreciation for LGBT+ creators, too!

[Bosch]

I think a duo book with Hulkling would be better. A couple of two cute gay teen heroes? Fangirls would love it... If they found out about their existence.

Shouldn't they be in their twenties by now? Whatever happens, I really hope Teddy's nickname gets upgraded to SKRULLK.

[Dante Milton]

This is where I wonder if the point made in the article a few pages back, about vocal communities who lash out at anyone, even if they are trying to do something good but might get something wrong etc and so get attacked mercilessly, might come in to play.

Not to mention all the criticism and anger from fans who want to accuse you of banging an agenda drum or damaging their child hoods, or their children's child hoods.

If I was a writer, I'm not sure I could be bothered to accept/deal with all that.

I think if a writer is concerned about these issues they understand that the good it does outweighs the negative feedback. Also on the creative end, writers and artists should be very familiar with the concept of criticism. Especially if they have a formal education, where the critique process is pretty much the cornerstone of a degree in the arts. Being a professional does not free you from constructive criticism, it is one of the primary ways in which an artist can improve their work. Separating valid criticism from noise isn't difficult; although yes, with social media the volume of that noise is amplified, but there are tools to reduce that and they can always step away for a bit and come back if needed.

Skip-able anecdote. I remember taking a ceramics sculpture class back in college and during the critique it was pointed out that the piece I had made was incredibly phallic. I was too involved in the project, too focused on what I thought I was creating to notice. It was intensely embarrassing, but I'm glad that it happened because it improved my work and illustrated how intent doesn't always translate to interpretation.

[Fokken]

Being a professional does not free you from constructive criticism, it is one of the primary ways in which an artist can improve their work. Separating valid criticism from noise isn't difficult; although yes, with social media the volume of that noise is amplified, but there are tools to reduce that and they can always step away for a bit and come back if needed.
.

You don't get a lot of "criticism" on social media do you?
Not everyone's resolve is equally sturdy.

Side note: I dig the Chamber avatar.

[Dante Milton]

You don't get a lot of "criticism" on social media do you?
Not everyone's resolve is equally sturdy.

Oh I definitely don't. This right here is about as social as I get online, I don't do Twitter or Tumblr. Also, to be clear, the harassment that some creators get online is inexcusable. There are some pockets of fandom that can be very toxic and that's not okay.