View Poll Results: Who is your favourite 616 Marvel LGBT character?

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  • ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]

    30 3.37%
  • BLING! [Roxanne ‘Roxy’ Washington]

    12 1.35%
  • CULLEN BLOODSTONE

    21 2.36%
  • DAKEN AKIHIRO

    47 5.29%
  • HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]

    49 5.51%
  • KARMA [Xi’an Coy Mahn]

    49 5.51%
  • KAROLINA DEAN

    47 5.29%
  • LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief

    77 8.66%
  • MOONDRAGON [Heather Douglas]

    46 5.17%
  • MYSTIQUE [Raven Darkholme]

    134 15.07%
  • NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier]

    69 7.76%
  • PRODIGY [David Alleyne]

    25 2.81%
  • RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]

    47 5.29%
  • SHATTERSTAR [Gaveedra-7]

    51 5.74%
  • WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan], the Demiurge

    185 20.81%
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  1. #1021
    22. Sagittarius. Time Like Lightning's Avatar
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    I'm all for retcons of that nature. As most of us know, the majority of these characters were born in times when LGBT+ representation was unthinkable. I simply view it as correcting past mistakes born of a prejudiced society.
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
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  2. #1022
    homo superior gifted's Avatar
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    I'm not LGBT, so I don't want to impose my opinions, but I guess I can answer this from a heterosexual perspective?

    I love LGBT characters and I say that we indefinitely need more. Much like changing the skin color of an established character, the changing of sexuality hinges on the fact that comic companies depend on the star power of characters we already know to push these LGBT characters. I can understand how it may be difficult to create and promote an all new LGBT character, but at the same time, they should have trust and faith in themselves that these new and diverse characters will be successful.

    At the end of the day, I don't mind it as long as it's tasteful. I'm hearing rumors that Hickman is revealing one of his characters to be gay and most are speculating it to be Sunspot. While I'm fine with his sexuality changing, I'd be disappointed because I'm over the whole "macho, jokester alpha male is closeted" schtick. I'm sure there are more types of gays in the world.
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  3. #1023
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Time Like Lightning View Post
    I'm all for retcons of that nature. As most of us know, the majority of these characters were born in times when LGBT+ representation was unthinkable. I simply view it as correcting past mistakes born of a prejudiced society.
    Quote Originally Posted by broski View Post
    I'm not LGBT, so I don't want to impose my opinions, but I guess I can answer this from a heterosexual perspective?

    I love LGBT characters and I say that we indefinitely need more. Much like changing the skin color of an established character, the changing of sexuality hinges on the fact that comic companies depend on the star power of characters we already know to push these LGBT characters. I can understand how it may be difficult to create and promote an all new LGBT character, but at the same time, they should have trust and faith in themselves that these new and diverse characters will be successful.

    At the end of the day, I don't mind it as long as it's tasteful. I'm hearing rumors that Hickman is revealing one of his characters to be gay and most are speculating it to be Sunspot. While I'm fine with his sexuality changing, I'd be disappointed because I'm over the whole "macho, jokester alpha male is closeted" schtick. I'm sure there are more types of gays in the world.
    Thanks gang.

    The main reason I ask is to start a dialogue about.... tolerance.
    Simply put -- some of these posters are getting torn to shreds over their vocalization against their favorite characters being altered.
    Granted, in some cases, there are clear signs of bigotry and prejudice -- however there ARE posters who simply relate to their character on very basic and real level due to that character being heterosexual.

    I, for one, would be really upset if a writer down the line chose to "straighten out" Billy or Teddy for example, so I can relate to that argument.

  4. #1024
    spit and hades! Andru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    WHAT???? Oh, this is awesome, will update this ASAP. Was it mentioned why he's alive? Was the V-battalion present? And I LOVE this LGBT status is mentioned (see Hickman, it IS possible!)
    So I did some research, & I couldn't find any mention of him dying. But he did appear with Union Jack (Chapman) & Spitfire.

  5. #1025
    Incredible Member Magnito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Do any of the LGBT posters here take issue with the arguments made to retcon established heterosexual characters into homosexual characters?

    I'm curious where the LGBT community on CBR lands in that regard?

    The reason I ask is that I've seen some posters met with a significant amount of hostility and backlash -- with accussations of homophobia and biogotry and close mindedness, etc -- when arguing against their favorite character being revealed to be a lesbian, or transgender, or gay, etc. when they'd previously been written as heterosexual.
    Am I for it? Depends on the character and how it is handled. I'm using DC as an example here because I can't think of a good Marvel exapmle.

    DC outs Obsidian. Good move. Worked well with characters backstory. Wasn't made a big deal of. Gave him a stable relationship. This was handled very well.

    DC outs Alan Scott. After the reboot Obsidian no longer exists and they make his dad gay instead. In a big overblown publicity way. Changing a well established straight character while at the same time eliminating Obsidian from the time line (seriously, they had a perfectly fine gay character there. They could have just kept him). This was handled very poorly.

    To sum up; if handled well and makes sense given the characters history I am all for it. If it goes against history or is some big publicity stunt, I'd rather they didn't.

  6. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    WHAT???? Oh, this is awesome, will update this ASAP. Was it mentioned why he's alive? Was the V-battalion present? And I LOVE this LGBT status is mentioned (see Hickman, it IS possible!)
    I'm not sure why Roger was listed as dead in the first place--he wasn't dead. He died in the 2nd CITIZEN V & THE V-BATTALION miniseries...but was restored to life by the end of the mini. He retired as head of the V-Battalion...but then turned up again in Allan Jacobsen's short-lived NEW INVADERS series a few years ago (which also acknowledged his sexuality, and gave him a new boyfriend) and he resumed the leadership of the V-Battalion after Jim Hammond stepped down.

  7. #1027
    Incredible Member Wiccan615's Avatar
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    Wow it's been a while since I last posted here xD

    In regards to making an established straight character LGBT, I'm all for it. I understand some fans relate to said character because they're straight, but you basically have thousands of other straight characters to identify with. There are too few LGBT characters, and if we ever are lucky enough to get one, it's always a side character who hardly ever gets centre stage and/or is only relevant for one or two runs and never gets seen or heard of again. Having a mainstay character be LGBT would solves that issue. And honestly, fans of said character shouldn't like the character any less because that character is LGBT, but the fact that the character is LGBT is a big thing for many LGBT fans who don't have many characters to relate to in the first place because of their minority status. Just my two cents.

  8. #1028
    House of Frost NewMutant's Avatar
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    Changing sexual orientation is a bit more believable than gender and race because sexuality is something that can be denied, ignored, and discovered through out life. I have no problem but it needs to be realistic and not forced for a variety of reasons. This is why I've support Iceman coming out because it seems to fit into the context of his history.

    Also, a benefit of outing a pre-existing character is the level of exposure. I completely understand fans not liking the idea of not wanting a character they love and identify with to come out (though you can still identify with them in my book); however the gay community doesn't have a big named hero to look at. If someone like Iceman came out he is popular enough for the world at large to recognize him and to get consistent use. Otherwise it will take decades to build up that popularity.

    We're on page 69.. heheh
    Last edited by NewMutant; 09-26-2014 at 01:29 PM.

  9. #1029
    Spectacular Member Arion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Do any of the LGBT posters here take issue with the arguments made to retcon established heterosexual characters into homosexual characters?

    I'm curious where the LGBT community on CBR lands in that regard?

    The reason I ask is that I've seen some posters met with a significant amount of hostility and backlash -- with accussations of homophobia and biogotry and close mindedness, etc -- when arguing against their favorite character being revealed to be a lesbian, or transgender, or gay, etc. when they'd previously been written as heterosexual.
    I think it depends on the character. In some cases, there are characters that are almost screaming to be outed, but that can't be said about all of them.

  10. #1030

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    As a straight person, I will say there are some characters where I would be disappointed to see them outed. But it's not because I relate to them better when they're straight. It's because it would be very, very difficult to do it in a way that feels authentic. I'll give an example: Kitty. There's been a ton of jokes over the years about her being gay. Kitty and Storm, Kitty and Illyana, Kitty and Rachel, Kitty and Karma - she gets shipped with a lot of female characters. But while I can see where people are getting it from, I disagree with it. I think Kitty is firmly heterosexual. So a writer having her suddenly fall in love with a woman would come across, to me, as fanservice and wish fulfillment. It wouldn't feel true to her character.

    On the other hand, Psylocke falling in love with a woman was fine. I can see Psylocke being more willing than Kitty to engage in a same-sex relationship.

    And it's definitely not about whether I like the characters or not. I couldn't care less about Iceman, but I would oppose him being written as gay. I've never gotten a vibe from any of his appearances that he might be even a little bit into guys. Truthfully, I always felt like he'd probably be a little uncomfortable with homosexuality, and just makes an effort to hide that discomfort. But I could probably believe Angel being a little bit bisexual.

    Part of the problem with taking an established character and "revealing" them as LGBT is that, the longer the character has existed, the more evidence there is that they're not LGBT. Someone like Iron Man has over 50 years of history, and nothing in any of that time has suggested any particular attraction to men. At that point, it simply doesn't seem realistic to make him bisexual. In the end, there are only a few long-term characters who it wouldn't feel out of place with. Most of the ideal options have less than 20 years of history.

  11. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Do any of the LGBT posters here take issue with the arguments made to retcon established heterosexual characters into homosexual characters?

    I'm curious where the LGBT community on CBR lands in that regard?

    The reason I ask is that I've seen some posters met with a significant amount of hostility and backlash -- with accussations of homophobia and biogotry and close mindedness, etc -- when arguing against their favorite character being revealed to be a lesbian, or transgender, or gay, etc. when they'd previously been written as heterosexual.
    As someone who is bisexual...it's really a case-by-case thing. Sometimes a coming out story can be well done, sometimes it can come off as odd. Most recent example of me feeling kind of 'meh' was Benjamin Deeds in UXM. While I can respect Emma being unfazed/indifferent by it, it comes off as odd because Benjamin was checking Magik out a couple issues prior (again, mostly going by memory. Only have really read UXM through friends issues after realizing it and ANXM weren't my thing).

    At the end of the day, I'm usually fine with it as long as the story it is introduced in is believable. If a writer is going to do it, I would prefer they do it through a bit of a character arc that leads up to it instead of out of the blue, but that's the "Everything Connects I Heart All Things Chekov"-reader in me.

  12. #1032
    Mighty Member America / Bucky / Russia's Avatar
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    *LGBT here*

    If it's done in a Madrox way? Sure. And my preference for it would be "hey, I'm actually bisexual" rather than "everything you've read about me in the past is a lie I was just dating that girl for 20 issues because I was insecure about my sexuality."

    But when I see posts like the whole "Bisexual Steve Rogers!" thing, I'm against it. The big tier heroes should really be locked in to their sexual identity, because the outcry of say "WHAT? IRON MAN IS BISEXUAL?" or "SPIDER-MAN IS BISEXUAL?" when nothing in the past has indicated it is a too on-the-nose way of increasing LGBT representation. Of course there are adults who go through the "is my sexuality what I think it is?" motions, but it generally seems safer to do it with young characters. What would be considered character development in a novel, or change/revelation in real life is deemed a "retcon" in the comic book world.

    I've expressed previously that I don't like the theory that Emma is trans, and the same goes for the idea that Storm is bisexual. I've read nothing to indicate that in the past (although I'm sure you have a whole list of inferences which have been made), and after almost 40 years of the character where she's only ever dated males. She's an awesome compassionate person to other women, sure, but any of those sweet huggy moments don't have anything to do with sexual identity.

    Loki's probably the best example of a 60s era character to be represented as pansexual, because, y'know, advanced race of gods and all that. Does Thor need to be an agent of assgard? Nah. But especially with Loki's recent movements outside of sticking to a binary gender (although that was technically Sif at the same time), it works. Same with Hercules because it has a Classical precedent and is outside our human society.

    I also like when they reveal some of the Golden Age heroes to be LGBT, like with the original Union Jack and also with another character in the unfinished All-Winner's Squad limited series.

    I feel if it's a small/obscure enough character where it doesn't affect their overall person, like with Prodigy, that's cool.

    LGB isn't as big an issue as T, though.
    Last edited by America / Bucky / Russia; 09-27-2014 at 07:01 AM.

  13. #1033
    Full sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Do any of the LGBT posters here take issue with the arguments made to retcon established heterosexual characters into homosexual characters?

    I'm curious where the LGBT community on CBR lands in that regard?

    The reason I ask is that I've seen some posters met with a significant amount of hostility and backlash -- with accussations of homophobia and biogotry and close mindedness, etc -- when arguing against their favorite character being revealed to be a lesbian, or transgender, or gay, etc. when they'd previously been written as heterosexual.
    I actually understand where some of the opposition. I can't agree with the tone most of the time, but I can see where it's coming from sometimes.

    I'm one of those people who has been reading this stuff for so long that I have very defined ideas about most of my favorite chartacters, especially at Marvel (DC is a little different to me, because they've always had multiple versions of thier core characters on the table).

    I do think the opposition is a little cray sometimes. It's not outside the realms of 'this sh*t happens every day' to see someone who's done the wife and kids thing all thier life to finally come to terms with thier homosexuality.

    I'm of the mind that I don't actively seek changes to characters....but seeing a same sex romance where there mightn't have been one before doesn't really strike me as all that big a 'change' to a character. /shrug.
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  14. #1034
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Do any of the LGBT posters here take issue with the arguments made to retcon established heterosexual characters into homosexual characters?
    I'm curious where the LGBT community on CBR lands in that regard?
    I'm gay, I support outing characters. Most were made in a time when they couldn't be outed. Jim Shooter's "No Gays at Marvel" only ended in 1991. Most characters we think of were created before that. Very few were created after, in the grand scheme of things, I don't even consider it a retcon (in fact I 100% disagree with describing it as a retcon); it's merely revealing a new part of a character's personality. The only way it's ever a retcon is if that character had said on panel "I'm 100% straight", then a telepath confirms it's true, then the all seeing truth sword confirms the telepath is telling the truth/not under any influences and this fact will always be true till the end of time. THEN it's a retcon. Until such time as that happens, it's merely a new reveal/new data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    The reason I ask is that I've seen some posters met with a significant amount of hostility and backlash -- with accussations of homophobia and biogotry and close mindedness, etc -- when arguing against their favorite character being revealed to be a lesbian, or transgender, or gay, etc. when they'd previously been written as heterosexual.
    It always depends. I've seen plenty of posters express the concept: "I'd rather not, because I see them as straight." I don't see any backlash for that kind of post, ever. I only ever see backlash (and I'd argue justified) when ANY of these "cliches" come up:
    • "Of course it doesn't bother me either way..." Then why have you spent 50 posts arguing against it, CLEARLY it does bother you on some level
    • "it's a retcon, they've had a girlfriend/fancied a girl/kissed a girl/slept with a woman/were married." This holds no water, IN REAL LIFE, these things happen to people who later in life come out as gay -- not even bisexual, but GAY! It's a ignorant stance to take
    • "I don't read comics for romance." B*LLOCKS!!! Peter/MJ, Scott/Jean/Logan, Wanda/Vision, Sue/Reed. Comics have romance (nearly ALL stories do, in fact). This arguement only ever comes up when it's an LGBT couple.
    • "Well they should change a gay character straight, see how you like it." The privilege in this view is astounding


    I'm sure there are more cliche ignorance, but off the top of my head those are the four that rear their ugly head most often. Anyone else think of any others?
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 09-27-2014 at 03:27 AM.

  15. #1035
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Time Like Lightning View Post
    I'm all for retcons of that nature. As most of us know, the majority of these characters were born in times when LGBT+ representation was unthinkable. I simply view it as correcting past mistakes born of a prejudiced society.
    This is my thinking too. Great minds...

    Quote Originally Posted by broski View Post
    I'm not LGBT, so I don't want to impose my opinions, but I guess I can answer this from a heterosexual perspective?
    Heterosexual perspective is always welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsubou View Post
    Curiouser and curiouser...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Simply put -- some of these posters are getting torn to shreds over their vocalization against their favorite characters being altered.
    Oh dear, what thread has this reared up in now????

    Quote Originally Posted by broski View Post
    At the end of the day, I don't mind it as long as it's tasteful. I'm hearing rumors that Hickman is revealing one of his characters to be gay and most are speculating it to be Sunspot.
    It's Hickman, and based on Stonewall... it will probably never happen. And based on the thread (which was closed, it offended people so much to even discuss it) most posters on CBR don't care if Hickman ever outs his Avenger. I doubt he's going to, frankly. And I doubt any LGBT posters will be surprised he doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by broski View Post
    While I'm fine with his sexuality changing, I'd be disappointed because I'm over the whole "macho, jokester alpha male is closeted" schtick. I'm sure there are more types of gays in the world.
    Off the top of my head I can't think of ANY Marvel character who fits this description (who's been outed).

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