LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Kieran_Frost]

So I did some research, & I couldn't find any mention of him dying. But he did appear with Union Jack (Chapman) & Spitfire.

DERMIE: I'm not sure why Roger was listed as dead in the first place--he wasn't dead. He died in the 2nd CITIZEN V & THE V-BATTALION miniseries...but was restored to life by the end of the mini. He retired as head of the V-Battalion...but then turned up again in Allan Jacobsen's short-lived NEW INVADERS series a few years ago (which also acknowledged his sexuality, and gave him a new boyfriend) and he resumed the leadership of the V-Battalion after Jim Hammond stepped down.

Question asked... Question answered; by the wonderful fount of knowledge, Dermie. I completely forgot about how the comic ended, only remembered his death. Whoops.

And honestly, fans of said character shouldn't like the character any less because that character is LGBT, but the fact that the character is LGBT is a big thing for many LGBT fans who don't have many characters to relate to in the first place because of their minority status. Just my two cents.

A EXCELLENT two cents!!!

Changing sexual orientation is a bit more believable than gender and race because sexuality is something that can be denied, ignored, and discovered through out life. I have no problem but it needs to be realistic and not forced for a variety of reasons. This is why I've support Iceman coming out because it seems to fit into the context of his history.

Also, a benefit of outing a pre-existing character is the level of exposure. I completely understand fans not liking the idea of not wanting a character they love and identify with to come out (though you can still identify with them in my book); however the gay community doesn't have a big named hero to look at. If someone like Iceman came out he is popular enough for the world at large to recognize him and to get consistent use. Otherwise it will take decades to build up that popularity.

a) everytime I see your avatar, I keep wanting to copy it; with Moonstone, Wiccan, Emma and Zemo (maybe bump Voodoo in there?)
b) 100% THIS!!! We have no A-lister. Mystique is the closest, and most people who know her have never seen her LGBT side (EVER). Iceman is a perfect candidated, he even has comic canon history of people accusing him of being gay.. It writes itself!

We're on page 69.. heheh

LOL!!! We're so childish!!!

As someone who is bisexual...it's really a case-by-case thing. Sometimes a coming out story can be well done, sometimes it can come off as odd. Most recent example of me feeling kind of 'meh' was Benjamin Deeds in UXM. While I can respect Emma being unfazed/indifferent by it, it comes off as odd because Benjamin was checking Magik out a couple issues prior.

You're one of the few I've seen on CBR who didn't like the issue. As for him checking out Magik, I think that was the artist's mistake (not Bendis). But hey, even gay guys stare at women sometimes, beauty is for everyone.

At the end of the day, I'm usually fine with it as long as the story it is introduced in is believable. If a writer is going to do it, I would prefer they do it through a bit of a character arc that leads up to it instead of out of the blue, but that's the "Everything Connects I Heart All Things Chekov"-reader in me.

What is your favourite Chekhov play?

But when I see posts like the whole "Bisexual Steve Rogers!" thing, I'm against it. The big tier heroes should really be locked in to their sexual identity, because the outcry of say "WHAT? IRON MAN IS BISEXUAL?" or "SPIDER-MAN IS BISEXUAL?" when nothing in the past has indicated it is a too on-the-nose way of increasing LGBT representation. Of course there are adults who go through the "is my sexuality what I think it is?" motions, but it generally seems safer to do it with young characters. What would be considered character development in a novel, or change/revelation in real life is deemed a "retcon" in the comic book world.

I understand your logic, but I don't think we shouldn't have an outed A-lister just because some would react badly. That's not a reason to not be bold! I also think if we never out an A-lister... we'll probably never have an LGBT A-lister. Are Wolverine and Deadpool the only non-classic characters created after 60s to make it into A-list?

[Knight of DC]

You're one of the few I've seen on CBR who didn't like the issue. As for him checking out Magik, I think that was the artist's mistake (not Bendis). But hey, even gay guys stare at women sometimes, beauty is for everyone.

It wasn't something I really hated (apart from the winge-fest I honestly find both of Bendis' X-Titles and how they really let the concept of the Schism fizzle out into Cyclops Ego vs. Wolverine's Ego, but discussion for another day), it was just very 'meh' to me. Maybe with another re-write it could've been better.

As for Chekhov's plays.....probably The Bear.

[Kieran_Frost]

I think that's a little unfair (considering All New X-men is about NuJean and Kitty, Wolverine isn't even part of it anymore) nor is he part of Scott's team; it's hardly Cyclops vs Logan ego. I'm loving Uncanny X-men, I love the cast and feel he is actually giving everyone great times to shine (it's not just about Cyclops, who is absent from a lot more plots than people realise). LOVE Dark Dazzler!!! I want Northstar to comment on it!!!

I imagine it would go down something like this:

As for Chekhov's plays.....probably The Bear.

I favour the Proposal or the Sneeze for his short plays; and while I feel the Cherry Orchard is his "best work" (in terms of the epitome of trage-comedy) I love Three Sisters most. One of the simplest, most heartbreaking exchanges of theatre. "I came to say goodbye."/ "Goodbye".

[America / Bucky / Russia]

I'm gay, I support outing characters. Most were made in a time when they couldn't be outed. Jim Shooter's "No Gays at Marvel" only ended in 1991.

I didn't know that this was a formal policy by Shooter; I assumed it was just the CCA meddling with things. The funny thing is the 80s and the Shooter era is one of my favourite eras at Marvel, yet obviously it was restrictive in ways like that.

How many LGBT characters did we see in the 90s, anyhow? Obviously there was Northstar but I can't think of any others; it seems we've only really got some in the 00s and a lot more in the 10s.

[PretenderNX01]

"WHAT? IRON MAN IS BISEXUAL?"

I actually think Tony being Bi makes sense, or at least him having a thing for transvestites. The dude used to go on chemical fueled binges, I'm sure he wasn't too picky what he got with.

In case anyone wants an English translation of a previous scan from my previous post, here is it.

Oh, my... thank you Google Image Search so I could find the rest of it.

I, for one, would be really upset if a writer down the line chose to "straighten out" Billy or Teddy for example, so I can relate to that argument.

Well two things
1 it's adding diversity when someone comes out and would be subtracting it if they tried to straighten out a LBG character.
2 generally when someone comes out as gay, it's because they have found themselves to in no way be able to accept being society's default label of "straight" so it's not likely that someone would come out as straight.

DC outs Obsidian. Good move. Worked well with characters backstory. Wasn't made a big deal of. Gave him a stable relationship. This was handled very well.

The funny thing is, I got the Infinity Inc issue that had his origin in it. One of those dollar bin comics, and i'm just surprised no one ever read that as "and the reveal will be he's gay". Obsidian was adopted by strict and abusive religious parents who's beliefs he took on to the point of it would bother Jade when he insisted on crossing himself at dinner with her family. She designed his costume that relied on his skin showing but being covered in shadows and he's all upset about how revealing it is- I'm thinking he doesn't like how gay it looks and is uncomfortable with his body (since he's a self loathing closet case influenced by his strict upbringing) but I guess others didn't read into it.

I think Alex Ross was upset at outing a character, he tried dragging Geoff Johns into it too but Geoff distanced himself from it and Obsidians creator Roy Thomas said it wasn't offensive or ill-suited to the character. I remember being on a forum where someone was all "well then who do guys who are uncomfortable around girls relate too?" I was thinking you relate to the fact that he's secretly gay too.

I found a discussion about John Byrne and how he decided on Northstar being gay
Okay! As the creator of the first Gay superhero, this one I can answer.

There need to be Gays in comics because there are Gays in real life. No other reason. Same reason, in fact, that there are Blacks in comics. Asians in comics. Women and children in comics! The population of the fictional world should represent the real world.

That's why I created Northstar -- I felt the Marvel Universe needed a Gay superhero (even if I would never be allowed to say it in so many words in the comics themselves), and I felt that I should create one, rather than retrofitting an existing character.

[Starleafgirl]

How many LGBT characters did we see in the 90s, anyhow? Obviously there was Northstar but I can't think of any others; it seems we've only really got some in the 00s and a lot more in the 10s.

I sure as heck can't think of any pre-'00s ones, certainly not openly LGBT ones. There are some you could argue the meaning of their subtext (such as Storm with "Every. Female. Ever." lol), but that's about it.

[Tiamatty]

I didn't know that this was a formal policy by Shooter; I assumed it was just the CCA meddling with things. The funny thing is the 80s and the Shooter era is one of my favourite eras at Marvel, yet obviously it was restrictive in ways like that.

How many LGBT characters did we see in the 90s, anyhow? Obviously there was Northstar but I can't think of any others; it seems we've only really got some in the 00s and a lot more in the 10s.

Shooter gets the blame for the "No Gays" rule, but I have a feeling it's not deserved. My guess is that it was a policy that came from above him, and he simply had to enforce it. And he chose to enforce it in the most lax way he could - basically, as long as the word "gay" didn't come up, he let just about anything go. Northstar was very clearly gay. Cloud was LGBT. Captain America supporting character Arnie Roth was blatantly gay. And there were a few other examples. Shooter himself, in an interview back in the day, said that Marvel did have gay characters. The problem was that he then suggested that people not knowing which characters were gay was a good thing. It's clear where that position comes from. It goes along with the whole "gay characters should be indistinguishable from straight characters" line of thought that's pretty common.

As for LGBT characters from the '90s at Marvel, not many. A handful of minor characters. Looking at the Marvel Wikia, one of Silver Sable's agents, Amy Chen, was hinted to be a lesbian. Justice's father was gay. Hector of the Pantheon. There was a random X-Force villain named Mindmeld (whose page should be edited - it mentions that Mindmeld is referred to on-panel as female, but has a male body, and the article exclusively refers to her with male pronouns). Victoria Montesi, of the Darkhold Redeemers, would probably be the most prominent LGBT character during the decade, and yes, that is rather sad. There may be other similarly minor ones.

[NewMutant]

This isn't Marvel related and he is not even in the comic series, but I'm psyched at the thought Daryl Dixon on The Walking Dead might be gay.



While it would be shocking, I think it would fit into his story that we've seen this far. I think he would be such a great and major character to be representing the community. Of course, I'm also biased with love/crush/be my boyfriend goggles I have for that character. I LOVE me some Daryl.

Frank Darabont, the original showrunner, said he wanted Daryl to be "Prison Gay"...
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=55780

Robert Kirkman on the topic...
http://www.eonline.com/news/573591/t...xual-character

[Starleafgirl]

This isn't Marvel related and he is not even in the comic series, but I'm psyched at the thought Daryl Dixon on The Walking Dead might be gay.

While it would be shocking, I think it would fit into his story that we've seen this far. I think he would be such a great and major character to be representing the community. Of course, I'm also biased with love/crush/be my boyfriend goggles I have for that character. I LOVE me some Daryl.

"Prison Gay" is kind of an odd way to put it... as if, what, there were so few women left in post-apocalyptic America that he just went gay? Huh?

Anyway, I love Daryl and I read some links about this a while back, too, but can't find them now.

Fair warning: I can't talk about The Walking Dead without spoiling The Walking Dead.

The summary is that everyone involved thinks it would fit into his backstory neatly, too, but there hasn't been a good opportunity to have a romantic subplot for Daryl yet.

My thoughts on it are that it would be an interesting side of the character to reveal, so I'm up for it.

One person thought it would make sense that he's never expressed it before because of his childhood. It's hard enough having a dad like his, and a brother like his (who, if you'll recall, was just about every kind of bigot you could think of), without saying "I'm gay" too. Of course he'd be afraid of what Merle would say.

Although, I have to say, it would put a whole new perspective on why he didn't take Carol up on her playful offer of sex when they first arrived at the prison. You can go with the most likely reason, that he didn't want to be distracted from his srs bsns duties, or you can read some subtext into that and say he only thinks of her as a friend, 'cos he doesn't swing that way.

[America / Bucky / Russia]

This isn't Marvel related and he is not even in the comic series, but I'm psyched at the thought Daryl Dixon on The Walking Dead might be gay.

While it would be shocking, I think it would fit into his story that we've seen this far. I think he would be such a great and major character to be representing the community. Of course, I'm also biased with love/crush/be my boyfriend goggles I have for that character. I LOVE me some Daryl.

I'm only up to volume 6 of the comic (Wiki tells me he is a TV-exclusive character), but as of course one judges through boyfriend goggles based on appearance only, I am inclinded to agree with that.

He's like Hawkeye except with more cute facial hair.

[NewMutant]

I'm only up to volume 6 of the comic (Wiki tells me he is a TV-exclusive character), but as of course one judges through boyfriend goggles based on appearance only, I am inclinded to agree with that.

He's like Hawkeye except with more cute facial hair.

He is exclusively TV and Kirkman said he would not be bringing him into the series. Which is ashame because I would likely pick up the series if he were. I've read the first half but enjoy the show more and decided to not collect it.

I actually find Daryl to be a Hawkeye/Wolverine hybrid. Which essentially makes him my all time favorite character. And if he were gay... my god the cherry on top. YUM.

If they were to out him I think he would be the highest profile comic related gay character. And he is the (TV) series fan favorite. I only see pros from doing this.

[Blacksun]

I understand your logic, but I don't think we shouldn't have an outed A-lister just because some would react badly. That's not a reason to not be bold! I also think if we never out an A-lister... we'll probably never have an LGBT A-lister. Are Wolverine and Deadpool the only non-classic characters created after 60s to make it into A-list?

That's the problem, how transform a new character that is gay into a A-list? that is like a miracle. Fans always complain that marvel/DC is shoving X new character under their throats.

I have nothing against outing. Sexuality is not everyhting about the character, that's already too much heteronormtivity in all medias.

For what i know comics code authority banned gay character to appear in comics, only after 1988 or 1989 that it was allowed to write gay characters in comics

[America / Bucky / Russia]

If we were to see an LGBT character in a Marvel film, who would it be?

Personally, it could be nice to see Northstar in Apocalypse. With the setting being the 80s, it could be a good way to provide a counterpoint to the AIDS issues and homophobia of that era. It's actually pretty surprising that despite having Bryan Singer, the X-films have been universally straight (despite how basically every male protagonist in First Class is attractive and the legions of fans shipping Xavier/Magneto for some reason.) Or maybe they'll bring back Mystique and partner her with Destiny, to which I'm sure there will be a section of heterosexual male fans asking "hey...can nudes leak of the two of you together?"

As for Marvel Studios, it could be good to at least have an LGBT character in a small part. Maybe they could reveal Coulson as bisexual. Maybe we can see Loki seducing a guy in very much a Daken role? Who knows?

[Kieran_Frost]

I didn't know that this was a formal policy by Shooter; I assumed it was just the CCA meddling with things. The funny thing is the 80s and the Shooter era is one of my favourite eras at Marvel, yet obviously it was restrictive in ways like that.

Shooter gets the blame for the "No Gays" rule, but I have a feeling it's not deserved. My guess is that it was a policy that came from above him, and he simply had to enforce it. And he chose to enforce it in the most lax way he could - basically, as long as the word "gay" didn't come up, he let just about anything go.

Personally, I think if it wasn't Shooter, then the timing is... VERY bizarre. Jim Shooter was fired in Jan 1991, Northstar was outed Feb 1991. To me, that certainly implies Shooter was the one enforcing "No Gays at Marvel" (if it was "higher-ups" why the sudden heel turn seconds after he left?)

As for LGBT characters from the '90s at Marvel, not many. A handful of minor characters. Looking at the Marvel Wikia, one of Silver Sable's agents, Amy Chen, was hinted to be a lesbian. Justice's father was gay. Hector of the Pantheon. There was a random X-Force villain named Mindmeld (whose page should be edited - it mentions that Mindmeld is referred to on-panel as female, but has a male body, and the article exclusively refers to her with male pronouns). Victoria Montesi, of the Darkhold Redeemers, would probably be the most prominent LGBT character during the decade, and yes, that is rather sad. There may be other similarly minor ones.

Really? I didn't know that, what is his name, we can update the OP!

That's the problem, how transform a new character that is gay into a A-list? that is like a miracle. Fans always complain that marvel/DC is shoving X new character under their throats.
I have nothing against outing. Sexuality is not everyhting about the character, that's already too much heteronormtivity in all medias.

Agreed. If we every want an LGBT A-lister, the only way is to out an existing A-lister. Creating a new A-lister is near impossible.

If we were to see an LGBT character in a Marvel film, who would it be?
Personally, it could be nice to see Northstar in Apocalypse. With the setting being the 80s, it could be a good way to provide a counterpoint to the AIDS issues and homophobia of that era. It's actually pretty surprising that despite having Bryan Singer, the X-films have been universally straight (despite how basically every male protagonist in First Class is attractive and the legions of fans shipping Xavier/Magneto for some reason.) Or maybe they'll bring back Mystique and partner her with Destiny, to which I'm sure there will be a section of heterosexual male fans asking "hey...can nudes leak of the two of you together?"
As for Marvel Studios, it could be good to at least have an LGBT character in a small part. Maybe they could reveal Coulson as bisexual. Maybe we can see Loki seducing a guy in very much a Daken role? Who knows?

I agree it should be Northstar. The X-films are already a metaphor for being gay, it seems right they have the first ever openly LGBT character in that medium. And it would be fitting if it was Northstar, since he was the first openly LGBT character in mainstream comics. THAT SAID... with Quicksilver on the cards, would adding Northstar work? Or would it be a good person to have, to combat Quicksilver? In the film he seemed near unstoppable, maybe they need anther speedster to take him down?

[Kieran_Frost]

There was a random X-Force villain named Mindmeld (whose page should be edited - it mentions that Mindmeld is referred to on-panel as female, but has a male body, and the article exclusively refers to her with male pronouns).

I've never heard of Mindmeld, but reading up about her is AWESOME! Is she the first transgender character???

http://marvel.wikia.com/Mindmeld_%28Earth-616%29


NOTES: Mindmeld was constantly referred to as a female, although his body is quite obviously male. There are many theories for this -- one being that his actual mind is female, but he feels most comfortable in a male body and as such, stays in one. However, Mindmeld comes across as sexually ambiguous, and there is no certain answer to what his actual sex is.