View Poll Results: Who is your favourite 616 Marvel LGBT character?

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  • ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]

    30 3.37%
  • BLING! [Roxanne ‘Roxy’ Washington]

    12 1.35%
  • CULLEN BLOODSTONE

    21 2.36%
  • DAKEN AKIHIRO

    47 5.29%
  • HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]

    49 5.51%
  • KARMA [Xi’an Coy Mahn]

    49 5.51%
  • KAROLINA DEAN

    47 5.29%
  • LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief

    77 8.66%
  • MOONDRAGON [Heather Douglas]

    46 5.17%
  • MYSTIQUE [Raven Darkholme]

    134 15.07%
  • NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier]

    69 7.76%
  • PRODIGY [David Alleyne]

    25 2.81%
  • RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]

    47 5.29%
  • SHATTERSTAR [Gaveedra-7]

    51 5.74%
  • WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan], the Demiurge

    185 20.81%
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  1. #11971
    Incredible Member Wiccan615's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutecius View Post
    I have no issue with relatable or charming villains but what would be the implications for Bobby? Wouldn't willfully ignoring Daken's crimes (that he never atoned for) make Iceman at best, a mindless halfwit or more logically, a horrible person himself? I think he already doesn't come off very well after this run. That would be the final nail in the coffin.
    You do realize that Bobby had a thing with Mystique right? Whom is arguably just as bad, if not worse than Daken. I also think most people here would agree that his recent solo has done good things for his character development but your mileage will always vary. I don’t think him dating Daken would be a “deal breaker” but I do understand that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    You're just assuming that people who ship them think Bobby should think of him as some sort of prince charming and there would be no conflict in that relationship. I think the conflict might be precisely what draws some people to this pairing. ''My head says no, but my heart says go'' is an ancient trope that's used ALL THE TIME with cis-het characters who fall in love with the wrong person, so why exactly can't the same happen with a gay couple? Or maybe some people believed that Daken can be redeemed, and Bobby could be the one to help him with that. Shipping is not black and white and there are so many different reasons why some people would want to ship something. You can't really make some universal rule for that, so we just have to deal with different tastes.
    Well said, how we view relationships in fiction, and how they develop in fiction, isn’t always the same as expectations within reality. Hero/Antagonist ships are super common and usually a lot of fun. Batman/Catwoman, Spidey/Black Cat, etc, are popular dynamics. Bobby/Daken is polarizing but I see the appeal, there’s potential for character development on both ends, especially with both characters’ history with grappling with certain issues pertaining to self worth and dysfunctional childhoods and family dynamics. They also have very different queer identities/experiences and seeing that intersection could be interesting.
    Last edited by Wiccan615; 02-19-2018 at 08:33 PM.
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  2. #11972
    Fantastic Member Lutecius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    You're just assuming that people who ship them think Bobby should think of him as some sort of prince charming and there would be no conflict in that relationship. I think the conflict might be precisely what draws some people to this pairing. ''My head says no, but my heart says go'' is an ancient trope that's used ALL THE TIME with cis-het characters who fall in love with the wrong person, so why exactly can't the same happen with a gay couple? Or maybe some people believe that Daken can be redeemed, and Bobby could be the one to help him with that. Shipping is not black and white and there are so many different reasons why some people would want to ship something. You can't really make some universal rule for that, so we just have to deal with different tastes.
    I don't know, attraction is one thing but actually dating a shitbag like Daken is something else.

    I can't think of many example of heroes dating really vicious villains who haven't been reformed for years or somehow retconned as not so horrible after all. Scemma comes to mind but then again, she had joined his side for years when they had an affair. Jean wasn't dead anymore and Emma was only indirectly responsible for her death. The worst crime she confessed to Cyclops was watching as Shaw killed the other aspiring White Queens (who would likely have acted the same, had they been picked).
    Then there's Mystique sleeping with Wolverine and Forge. But that was before she murdered Moira and (as unrealistic as it seemed) she had never been shown killing innocent people. The only ones who had any kind of vaguely romantic interaction with her after that were Fantomex (who turned out to be a dangerous nutcase himself)... and Bobby.

    Again, I don't mind this kind of pairing in slash, rule 34 or forum memes but I expect a little consistency in comics. Daken would need one hell of a retcon to be redeemed.

  3. #11973
    Fantastic Member Lutecius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan615 View Post
    You do realize that Bobby had a thing with Mystique right? Whom is arguably just as bad, if not worse than Daken. I also think most people here would agree that his recent solo has done good things for his character development but your mileage will always vary. I don’t think him dating Daken would be a “deal breaker” but I do understand that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.



    Well said, how we view relationships in fiction, and how they develop in fiction, isn’t always the same as expectations within reality. Hero/Antagonist ships are super common and usually a lot of fun. Batman/Catwoman, Spidey/Black Cat, etc, are popular dynamics. Bobby/Daken is polarizing but I see the appeal, there’s potential for character development on both ends, especially with both characters’ history with grappling with certain issues pertaining to self worth and dysfunctional childhoods and family dynamics. They also have very different queer identities/experiences and seeing that intersection could be interesting.
    Neither Catwoman nor Black Cat would randomly murder people.
    As for Mystique, yes, that was another not so bright moment.

  4. #11974
    Incredible Member Wiccan615's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutecius View Post
    Neither Catwoman nor Black Cat would randomly murder people.
    As for Mystique, yes, that was another not so bright moment.
    I mean, it depends on how wide you set the bar, but they still fit that morally gray/ antagonistic character having an affair with the hero trope. Either way, it’s definitely not out of Bobby’s continuity for him to get ensnared into these types of relationships. Again, I’m not saying it’s ideal but I see the appeal and the potential.

    I also think it depends on whether or not you think Daken is capable of redemption. Half the fan base sees him as a merciless killer beyond redemption whilst the other views him as someone whom is morally gray and largely acting out due to his tramautic past. And we have seen villainous mutants have redemption arcs in the past afterall.
    Last edited by Wiccan615; 02-19-2018 at 09:31 PM.
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  5. #11975
    Incredible Member Wiccan615's Avatar
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    Although I think it’s missing quite a few examples (I am positive that Nightwing has hooked up with a villainess before but perhaps my memory is shoddy), apparently there’s an entire tvtropes page for this specific trope lmfao

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...DatingCatwoman
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  6. #11976
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    So I made this thing



    It was supposed to be for Valentine's Day, but it took longer than expected.
    Dante that's tremendous!!
    What was your process? What did you use??

  7. #11977
    Astonishing Member MYCMTSC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    So I made this thing



    It was supposed to be for Valentine's Day, but it took longer than expected.
    One of the best things I’ve ever seen

  8. #11978
    Astonishing Member maxhilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    You're just assuming that people who ship them think Bobby should think of him as some sort of prince charming and there would be no conflict in that relationship. I think the conflict might be precisely what draws some people to this pairing. ''My head says no, but my heart says go'' is an ancient trope that's used ALL THE TIME with cis-het characters who fall in love with the wrong person, so why exactly can't the same happen with a gay couple? Or maybe some people believe that Daken can be redeemed, and Bobby could be the one to help him with that. Shipping is not black and white and there are so many different reasons why some people would want to ship something. You can't really make some universal rule for that, so we just have to deal with different tastes.
    Exactly this.

    Oh and everything Wiccan615 said.

  9. #11979
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    You're just assuming that people who ship them think Bobby should think of him as some sort of prince charming and there would be no conflict in that relationship. I think the conflict might be precisely what draws some people to this pairing. ''My head says no, but my heart says go'' is an ancient trope that's used ALL THE TIME with cis-het characters who fall in love with the wrong person, so why exactly can't the same happen with a gay couple? Or maybe some people believe that Daken can be redeemed, and Bobby could be the one to help him with that. Shipping is not black and white and there are so many different reasons why some people would want to ship something. You can't really make some universal rule for that, so we just have to deal with different tastes.

  10. #11980
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Shipping is not black and white and there are so many different reasons why some people would want to ship something. You can't really make some universal rule for that, so we just have to deal with different tastes.
    It goes both ways though. Shippers can't give people "bitch face" or post gifs insulting them just for pointing out that it's not canon or stating that they don't want it to be canon.

  11. #11981
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    It goes both ways though. Shippers can't give people "bitch face" or post gifs insulting them just for pointing out that it's not canon or stating that they don't want it to be canon.
    Don't you have any humor? I was saying that on a joking manner, If I seriously wanted to fight people I would be actually arguing rather than saying "read this as me with a bitch face since I can't find a gif".

  12. #11982
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    So I made this thing



    It was supposed to be for Valentine's Day, but it took longer than expected.
    Great work.

  13. #11983
    Fantastic Member teamhawkeyes's Avatar
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    Slight change of topic, but.....

    looking at the promo image for the new Fresh Start relaunch doesn't fill me with much hope. There doesn't single look to be a single LGBT+ character on there? And with only one Avengers title, there go all books (Young Avengers, New Avengers, USAvengers) that have had the most LGBTQ+ characters in them...

  14. #11984
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamhawkeyes View Post
    Slight change of topic, but.....

    looking at the promo image for the new Fresh Start relaunch doesn't fill me with much hope. There doesn't single look to be a single LGBT+ character on there? And with only one Avengers title, there go all books (Young Avengers, New Avengers, USAvengers) that have had the most LGBTQ+ characters in them...
    Deadpool is on there. He's canonically written as pansexual. But other than him there's no one else, I agree that it's very disappointing to see where Marvel's priorities are.

  15. #11985
    Astonishing Member Johnrevenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    Deadpool is on there. He's canonically written as pansexual. But other than him there's no one else, I agree that it's very disappointing to see where Marvel's priorities are.
    I think that deadpool will never count as nobody has explored his pansexuality (he is always writen as straight). So yeah, no LGBT in the promo. This relaunch stinks a lot.

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