LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Tiamatty]

Definitely cool that they're going to have, not just a gay character, but a same-sex relationship. Unexpected, too.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

I'm just hoping they're not used as titillation for straight guys. But like I said, we'll have to wait and see.

[Holt]

I'm just hoping they're not used as titillation for straight guys. But like I said, we'll have to wait and see.

I would hope since NTW is supposed to be a teen they'd be more tactful than that.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

I would hope since NTW is supposed to be a teen they'd be more tactful than that.

Yeah, but this is the Deadpool franchise so... wait and see.

[Tiamatty]

Yeah, but this is the Deadpool franchise so... wait and see.

To be fair, even the actual sex in Deadpool was done in such a way as to avoid being pure titillation. It was used to show how Wade and Vanessa's relationship developed. Hell, there was a scene in a strip club, and it didn't feel exploitative. So they do clearly try pretty hard to avoid using sex for the purposes of titillation. So I don't think NTW and Yoiki will be used that way. The bigger concern, I think, is that anything that confirms they are in fact dating ends up on the cutting room floor, turning it into a between-the-lines thing.

[Silvermoth]

I’m excited. Baby steps but we’ll get there

[Drops Of Venus]

I can't disagree more.
I don't want Teddy to become a full Captain Marvel legacy. I hated his look in that Children's Crusade one-shot. It hides his Skrull heritage as if it's something he should be ashamed of. And frankly, it was a boring look.
The Skrulls get a bad enough rep in the MU. At least let Teddy show not all Skrulls are villains.

Well, that look was an AU rip-off from Mar-Vell's corny first costume. Obviously, I think he should wear something better, closer to the designs Genis-Vell got during his time as Captain Marvel, for instance, or something inspired by the Ultimate Captain Marvel look. THAT'S how an intergalactic prince warrior should look like. And like I said, he doesn't have to get rid of the green look completely. He could still use it to showcase his shapeshifting abilites whenever he needs to fly with his wings or punch a really hard surface with a stronger arm, etc. Teddy can get very creative with his powers. I mean, he even turned himself into a green centaur once, so he definitely wouldn't have a problem coming up with ideas. But as far as his standard look goes, I think he could benefit from looking less like a generic teen Hulk, because it's honestly easier to mistake him for that than a Skrull, specially with that codename.

Having 2 teenage superhero chicks make/lez out, have a relationship is pretty much a box office slam dunk especially for summer blockbusters ESPECIALLY if one's of tbe chicks happens to be Asian. Kinda easy

Not saying they couldn't benefit from the kind of audience Deadpool is expected to have, but what really matters is the filmmakers' intention in the story. If they're there to be treated like a normal relationship like any other and not unnecessarily sexualized or fetishized, then I don't see any harm.

You know... oddly this doesn't bother me as much. When it's about the foot in the door, I don't care how that foot looks... if you get what I mean? I've never been bothered if the first inclusion is a villain (for example). I'd rather be a villain than completely ignored. I'd rather be badly characterised than watch a film that just pretends I don't exist in this universe. Genuinely, I'm happier seeing fantasy worlds include me as a stereotype than not include me at all. For me the utter exclusion of LGBT+ people offends me more than a camp guy (I mean... some LGBT+ can be camp, it's lazy characterisation, but it's not entirely untruthful to certain people).

OF COURSE I would ALSO like it to be a good character that kicks ass, looks awesome and doesn't die at the end (that goes without saying), but I'm not too fussed how it turns out for the first superhero appearance in the films, for me the clear win is the inclusion. It's a big step, and I say: THANK-YOU DEADPOOL! And now we all have to praise Drops of Venus for saying all along it was our best chance! DoV = you get this week's "PINK CROWN" (hmmmm... that sounds way more sexual than I intended). We need a better award title, something more comic-y?

I get what you're saying about the first step being important. We've been so neglected within this particular type of media that I can understand how the slighest of representation feels like a victory. At the same time, I think it's important to tell comic/TV/movie creators what they could be doing better, because that's how they learn and that's how representation can improve. It's 2018 and lots of creators know how to decently portray LGBTQ people, so there's no excuse for others to get away with it. I think the key is to be grateful for the little achievements, but never settle for less than the best.

As for the crown... I'll gladly accept it.

To be fair, even the actual sex in Deadpool was done in such a way as to avoid being pure titillation. It was used to show how Wade and Vanessa's relationship developed. Hell, there was a scene in a strip club, and it didn't feel exploitative. So they do clearly try pretty hard to avoid using sex for the purposes of titillation. So I don't think NTW and Yoiki will be used that way. The bigger concern, I think, is that anything that confirms they are in fact dating ends up on the cutting room floor, turning it into a between-the-lines thing.

Yeah, that's my fear right now. For all we know, maybe the scene (or scenes) was in the test screenings precisely to see how people react to it and decide if they should include it in the final cut or not. Even Marvel Studios allegedly shot scenes that confirmed or hinted at characters' sexualities (Valkyrie and Ayo), but you don't get a cookie if you don't actually have the guts to show it to the people. So I hope Deadpool won't disappoint on that matter.

[Kieran_Frost]

I get what you're saying about the first step being important. We've been so neglected within this particular type of media that I can understand how the slighest of representation feels like a victory. At the same time, I think it's important to tell comic/TV/movie creators what they could be doing better, because that's how they learn and that's how representation can improve. It's 2018 and lots of creators know how to decently portray LGBTQ people, so there's no excuse for others to get away with it. I think the key is to be grateful for the little achievements, but never settle for less than the best.

Agreed. But we can do both. We can both get our foot in the door AND educate about how to move forward from there. We just need creators willing to listen. Ryan Reynolds is such a good ally, I'd be shocked if the LGBT+ representation gets cut, or is there just for titillation. Then again he's not in-charge, in that sense. And representation comes in many forms; and even when it's good doesn't mean it's done in a way we enjoy. I (personally) wasn't enthused by Al Ewing's writing of Wiccan and Hulkling (and in the end dropped the series before it finished). I thought the stories he gave (on paper) were awesome; I just didn't like their voices or how he framed their attitudes. So even "good" representation might not be to everyone's taste or enjoyment, and what is "good" representation changes from person-to-person. Iceman came out and gave us our first ever gay male A-lister. And on these boards we saw some LGBT+ readers upset because he wasn't revealed as bisexual. My point being (which I've done in a really round-a-bout way, apologies): it'll never please everyone HOW the 'teen lesbians' are portrayed. What cannot change is the fact they are included in the film in the first place; that's a variable that's not up for debate. They are either openly LGBT+ or they are not, so I get more excited about an unmoving variable than I do about taste levels. If that makes sense?

As for the crown... I'll gladly accept it.

I'm just hoping they're not used as titillation for straight guys. But like I said, we'll have to wait and see.

Meh, even if they are, I'd take that over not being represented at all. #FOOTintheDOOR

Yeah, that's my fear right now. For all we know, maybe the scene (or scenes) was in the test screenings precisely to see how people react to it and decide if they should include it in the final cut or not. Even Marvel Studios allegedly shot scenes that confirmed or hinted at characters' sexualities (Valkyrie and Ayo), but you don't get a cookie if you don't actually have the guts to show it to the people. So I hope Deadpool won't disappoint on that matter.

This would make me sad, and we saw it with Valkyrie. BUT Disney did promise that they won't try and change Deadpool, and the first film did have him "enjoying" some strap-on lovin' HA! So fingers crossed they don't cut the LGBT+ references.

[Silvermoth]

Apparently shatterstar is in it too so I don’t think it will just be titilation for straight guys.

And Lewis tan might be playing ‘star so I hope there’s titilation for this guy!

[Wiccan]

Is this confirmed though? I feel like we should wait for sure before getting so excited lol.

[Tiamatty]

The Week In Gay.

Runaways #7, of course, as someone mentioned Karolina talking to Julie on the phone. Wiccan mentioned there being something more relevant, I can only assume he was referring to Molly and her BFF doing their BFF handshake/dance thing. I can't imagine there being anything more important.

X-Men Gold #24 has Iceman present, his sexuality doesn't come up, but he's an OK leader here. In a book that is one of the worst-written things ever, because Marc Guggenheim is a total hack and I don't understand how he keeps getting work. The issue had one of the dullest fights I have ever read in a superhero comic, and the artist absolutely did his best, but the scripting called for the most boring fight ever. Seriously, Marc Guggenheim is terrible.

Avengers #685 has more Toni, Aikku and Lightning, all getting to show their determination.

Ms. Marvel #28 has Zoe still being wonderful. I really love Zoe. She's just the best.

Did I miss anything?

[Wiccan]

Runaways #7, of course, as someone mentioned Karolina talking to Julie on the phone. Wiccan mentioned there being something more relevant, I can only assume he was referring to Molly and her BFF doing their BFF handshake/dance thing. I can't imagine there being anything more important.

[Tiamatty]

I mean, I'm not reading the book (I'll read it on Unlimited), but Anka retweeted that bit of Molly and her BFF, and it's pretty clear that's the most important scene in the entire issue.

[Wiccan]

I mean, I'm not reading the book (I'll read it on Unlimited), but Anka retweeted that bit of Molly and her BFF, and it's pretty clear that's the most important scene in the entire issue.

Oh ok. I meant more important on the gay side. Though I kinda felt like Molly's bff had a crush on her on some parts lol.

[Drops Of Venus]

Apparently shatterstar is in it too so I don’t think it will just be titilation for straight guys.

And Lewis tan might be playing ‘star so I hope there’s titilation for this guy!

He confirmed he'll be playing the character on his social media. I have nothing to say except Lewis Tan can shatter all my stars.

Is this confirmed though? I feel like we should wait for sure before getting so excited lol.

You mean the Shatterstar thing or the Negasonic thing? The first, like I said, has been confirmed. The second... we'll see, but I don't think the guy is lying. He is a verified entertainment blogger with inside info and I don't think he'd have any reason to lie about it.