LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[NexusTenebrare]

The fact that you guys can't see your own hypocrasy when defending Ewing and simultaniously attacking Bendis (again) is ridiculous.
Especially since Wiccan used Kieran's position on Bendis to showcase a similair hypocrasy.
Both have given us LGBT inclusion, but neither are anywhere near perfect. There is no need to make this into some kind of dumb contest.

[Kieran_Frost]

The fact that you guys can't see your own hypocrasy when defending Ewing and simultaniously attacking Bendis (again) is ridiculous.
Especially since Wiccan used Kieran's position on Bendis to showcase a similair hypocrasy.
Both have given us LGBT inclusion, but neither are anywhere near perfect. There is no need to make this into some kind of dumb contest.

To quote Nina Bonina Brown as Jasmine Masters: THANK YOU. Ewing has done good (esp. with Pod/Toni and from the sound of it Living Lightning, but I’ve not read that one). It just gets my back up how few will acknowledge that writing one of the only LGBT+ series and not mentioning any same sex attraction is a fail.

Kieran, shouldn't we include Avengers Arena and Undercover too? Cullen was a major character

For the “comics of note” section? Originally I think that was originally for the ones with GLAAD noms. While Cullen was awesome, in terms of sexuality it wasn’t too exciting. I haven’t included Uncanny X-force by Bunn(?), mainly because it missed the opportunity to truly delve into Psylocke’s sexuality. It’s all very vague at this point. On the OP I have her as “Psylocke” for that very reason (ditto Storm, Gambit and Wolverine)

[Fokken]

Again with the abuse of hyperbole.
STAHP.
WHO is attacking???
I see some questions being posed and some comparisons being made but I don't see any "attacks".

[Crimz]

Is Lightning in anything after No Surrender or is he just going back to Limbo? It's a waste if he just disappears after No Surrender as it re-introduced him to more fans and sets him up to be used more often in the MU.

[Fokken]

Is Lightning in anything after No Surrender or is he just going back to Limbo? It's a waste if he just disappears after No Surrender as it re-introduced him to more fans and sets him up to be used more often in the MU.

We don't know the status of most of the No Surrender cast yet unfortunately.

[PaxHouse]

We don't know the status of most of the No Surrender cast yet unfortunately.

But it will be revealed within the Epologue of this Week's Issue of AVENGERS: NO SURENNDER.....

[baltiroo]

Did anyone else love/hate Lightning's clapback in last weeks issue? I'm hoping for more Miguel greatness on Wednesday. And please, don't send him back to limbo after this.

[Fokken]

Did anyone else love/hate Lightning's clapback in last weeks issue? I'm hoping for more Miguel greatness on Wednesday. And please, don't send him back to limbo after this.

Much like the crossover itself (hahaha), the book ends were the best parts (imho) -- and that extends to Lightning's appearances as well. His introductory stuff and then the closing were his best showcasings, personality wise. Very much a welcome addition!

[Wiccan]

The fact that you guys can't see your own hypocrasy when defending Ewing and simultaniously attacking Bendis (again) is ridiculous.
Especially since Wiccan used Kieran's position on Bendis to showcase a similair hypocrasy.
Both have given us LGBT inclusion, but neither are anywhere near perfect. There is no need to make this into some kind of dumb contest.

I'm not attacking Bendis. I love that he made Iceman gay. I even defended the reveal scene that so many people here hated. I have never made any comment criticizing him about LGBT representation except for an example to point out some "hypocrisy" as you say, while Kieran comes with the exact same topic(Loki's solo) every single time Ewing is mentioned.

[Harpsikord]

For the “comics of note” section? Originally I think that was originally for the ones with GLAAD noms. While Cullen was awesome, in terms of sexuality it wasn’t too exciting. I haven’t included Uncanny X-force by Bunn(?), mainly because it missed the opportunity to truly delve into Psylocke’s sexuality. It’s all very vague at this point. On the OP I have her as “Psylocke” for that very reason (ditto Storm, Gambit and Wolverine)

Uncanny X-Force was written by Humphries

I'm not touching this conversation of writers and them writing inclusively other than to say that some get it more than others, more is better, and that this is the exact reason that the novel (graphic novel? we'll see how I feel) I hope to eventually write has more queer leads than none.

[maxhilary]

What was it then? Oh, it was ???
Well that's just unadulterated abuse of sarcasm and hyperbole. Pffft. "TENDS"
Shame on you, maxhilary.

Creative allies for inclusion should always be celebrated.
The absence of LGBTQ themes from one work of art (Loki), ought not dismiss/under-or-devalue the LGBTQ themes included in subsequent works of art (Ultimates, New Avengers, USAvengers, & No Surrender)

Oh dear, it seems I inadvertently started some discourse while I was gone! :0 Shame on me indeed

But we're all friends here yes? And I think we're on the same page really, LGBTQ+ inclusion is important, and different writers achieve it to different levels of effectiveness, but all of it is appreciated for what it is.

[legion_quest]

We know Lightning appears not to be on the Avengers A-team under Aaron, but I should expect two Avengers B list titles, when I should hope he would re-surface after this great showing.

I'm guessing the A-team will still remain straight and comfortable, as much as making Robbie Reyes non-hetero would be more interesting, I dont see them doing it.

[Holt]

On the subject of Shatterstar, according to rumors, the reason Deadpool 2 had all those expensive reshoots was related to him.

spoilers:

As reported, the original cut of the movie apparently had the entire X-Force team except for Deadpool and Domino being killed in a joke after the plane jump seen in the trailer, but test audiences hated that, so it was all reshot so that X-Force lived. So hopefully this is all true, and Shatterstar actually survives and gets to do something cool.

end of spoilers

[Magmaster12]

Also, Lockjaw is definitely more of a D-Man book and considering the writer it was probably pitched as such.

[Dermie]

He gets far too much praise for... basically including us. Is that how low the bar is these days? That simply not ignoring LGBT+ people exist gets "super ally" status?

No--but the thing is, he does far more than simply "not ignore" us. He does far more than just provide a token LGBT presence. He has put multiple LGBT characters into several his books, and given them starring roles and major storylines. He has explored their love lives and relationships.

I'm sorry that his run on LOKI disappointed you --but its seems like you are fixating on that disappointment and letting it colour your opinion on the good work he has done overall with LGBT representation.

ANYONE who gets "super ally" status doesn't do that (in my opinion). A super ally doesn't write one of the rarely seen LGBT+ solo series and NOT mention the character is attracted to the same sex.

Aside from some same-sex flirting, you mean. Yes, there could have been more done, for sure--but its not like it was totally absent.

I rarely care what a writer says in interviews, only because (cynically) talk is cheap. JK Rowling is great talking about Dumbledore being gay... in interviews... never seems to translate to her work though

I really don't want to get into that can of worms, but I have always felt that it WAS in the work--I had seen the subtext about Dumbledore being gay in the 7th novel before reading Rowling's announcement of Dumbledore's orientation, so I saw it as more of a confirmation than a reveal. But that's getting off the point...

And I did very much like that line about "my child who is both"... but technically that wasn't in the Loki solo series, but the 5th Realm (I forget the title) mini-series combined, no?

If you want to get really technical about it, yes--but given that the miniseries was by the LOKI creative team and continued the story from the ongoing series, I think it is rightly counted as part of the run. And Loki was shown in female form in the main book as well.

Dermie... I know you didn't intentionally mean to belittle my objection to Ewing as nothing more than "wanting man-on-man action", but I feel it came across as that (unintentionally mind, so I'm not mad, just observing).

I'm sorry if it came across that way, but there was no belittling intended. It was just an attempt at using a lighter tone to make the point that basically the only thing that Ewing didn't do in regards to Loki was show him pursuing a man. He confirmed the sexuality in interview. He acknowledged it in-story with flirtation. He displayed the gender fluid nature, and addressed it directly in-story.

As I've acknowledged above, yes, Ewing could have done more. I just don't think that what he didn't do really deserves the level of criticism you're giving him, especially when balanced against everything else he did do, both in the LOKI series and everywhere else.

Bottom line? If you don't care for Ewing's work and his efforts of inclusion and representation for LGBT characters in his work, that's fine---that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Not everyone feels the same way about every writer, and that's ok. But maybe show a little more consideration and respect for the opinion of your fellow posters by not telling us we're giving too much praise to people who don't deserve it? Its an appreciation thread after all--and I think that should include appreciating the efforts of those writers who continually include and promote LGBT characters in their work, rather than tearing them down for not doing more, faster.