LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[zinderel]

I take more issue with the fact she killed an innocent gay mutant after stalking him and never faced any consequences over it.

Wait, whaaaaaaat!? When? Who? I CLEARLY missed something.

The directors are definitely to blame, but the reason for why the directors do it is those countries.
And one should never give Russia a pass on its anti-gay bullshit. What it does to its gay population are basic human rights violations and the rest of the world just doesn't dare call them out on it.

Well, that's because, like it or not, religious fundamentalism has convinced much of the world that we are disgusting, hellbound sinners and/or abominations to be put down to prevent us from corrupting children. So no one says anything about what Russia is doing because, on some level, they approve.

That's what the cynic in me sees, anyhow.

[Drops Of Venus]

THe thing is, the superhero movies are supposed to bring in much from the international markets like China and Russia, which are far from gay-friendly.

And the same could be said about Disney movies. So, again, if Disney is doing it, then I think this just gives Marvel more power to do the same. I don't think they're going all out at first and I'm sure a lot of people will be disappointed at how much better the representation could've been done, but it's a start.

Black Cat has definitely been portrayed as more into guys than women, but it doesn't erase the fact that she was established to be bi. With her getting her own solo book later this year, maybe her bisexuality will get referenced again.

I hadn't heard about that. I really like Felicia, so I'm glad she'll be getting her own book.

I mean Illyana was right there...and the New Mutants had a canon Asian lesbian the filmmaker conveniently left out of the movie as well.

Yeah, the lack of Karma is what bothers me the most about this. Like, it's great if they have a lesbian couple there, but it's really frustrating that they're doing it in a movie that essentially excluded the original lesbian character. It would be like doing a Young Avengers movie with a gay couple that's not Wiccan and Hulkling. The representation is welcomed, of course, but it still leaves a bad taste in your mouth because it's not the representation you particularly cared for. Plus, the Foxverse of Marvel movies, with the exception of Deadpool, seems to be doomed anyway, so it's hard to get invested in this franchise at all. I will still hope the film does well and is well received, however, because we need all the queer representation we can get right now in Hollywood.

Zero interest. Rahne still has stink on her from the way she handled Rictor/Shatterstar for me.

She doesnt deserve to be in that place.

Eh, to be fair, this is not exactly the Rahne from the comics, so we don't really know how she'll be portrayed here.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/...-gay-superhero

Christo-fascists are at it again. Hating the 'sin', but 'loving' the 'sinner'...

[Insert pretendstobeshocked gif here]

[Dermie]

I hadn't heard about that. I really like Felicia, so I'm glad she'll be getting her own book.

Yeah, there has been surprisingly little discussion of it since it got announced. I'm not sure if the announcement just happened during a busy news week and got overlooked, or what.

But here is one of the articles about the announcement:
https://www.newsarama.com/44014-blac...wn-series.html

[The Cool Thatguy]

I take more issue with the fact she killed an innocent gay mutant after stalking him and never faced any consequences over it.

Yeah, that never actually happened.

Rahne was paid to follow a man who was using his powers to cheat on his wife. She discovered that he was with a man, at which point he attacked her, with intent to kill. As he was in an energy/astral form, Rahne had no idea the correct amount of force to use, and ended up killing him as she fought back.

She felt a deep sense of remorse, and again, it was self defense. Context matters.

[Johnrevenge]

Yeah, that never actually happened.

Rahne was paid to follow a man who was using his powers to cheat on his wife. She discovered that he was with a man, at which point he attacked her, with intent to kill. As he was in an energy/astral form, Rahne had no idea the correct amount of force to use, and ended up killing him.

She felt a deep sense of remorse, and again, it was self defense. Context matters.

Exactly, it was self defense and accidental.

[Factor]

It's weird to ignore the team's lesbian character only to make two straight teammates a couple. Not a fan, especially when it comes to Rahne. She doesn't have the best track record and I doubt the movie will do enough to explore the conflicts of her religion and sexuality.
Between this and the whitewashing, I don't know if I want to see this movie released. Too many unnecessary and problematic changes.

[spirit2011]

It's just hard to be excited about anything in regards to New Mutants for me...

First of all I have never been much into Fox movies in general. Second, I'm not a big New Mutants fan and the trailers and co didn't catch my interesting. Third, the shameless whitewashing bothers me a lot. Fourth, the movie has been delayed sooo much that all the general hype for it has been lost. Fifth(I'm starting to feel dumb with this numbering....) they apparently had super major reshoots that changed half the movie which is eehh... Then, Disney buying Fox, which seems to be closing soon. And thanks to it, there's a chance this movie doesn't even get released, at least not in theathers.

And lastly, those characters don't even have a relationship or are gay in the comics, so even if I welcome a change like that, it feels a bit random and not as exciting, for me at least.

Director said that reshoots weren't made. Seems like fox gave up on it

I think Disney might just put it on Hulu, without doing the reshoots.

It's weird to ignore the team's lesbian character only to make two straight teammates a couple. Not a fan, especially when it comes to Rahne. She doesn't have the best track record and I doubt the movie will do enough to explore the conflicts of her religion and sexuality.
Between this and the whitewashing, I don't know if I want to see this movie released. Too many unnecessary and problematic changes.

Whitewashing bothers me a lot more than sexuality bending (ok that turning Rahne into a lesbian seems too random and maybe a bit too plaing in stereotypes and they could had included Karma if they wanted).
It is weird that we are getting this info just around the merger is about to complete

[The Cool Thatguy]

It's weird to ignore the team's lesbian character only to make two straight teammates a couple. Not a fan, especially when it comes to Rahne. She doesn't have the best track record and I doubt the movie will do enough to explore the conflicts of her religion and sexuality.
Between this and the whitewashing, I don't know if I want to see this movie released. Too many unnecessary and problematic changes.

Not that weird. Most Non MU movies keep too close to the source material without pragmatic adaption. And in the source material, Karma was away from the team 90% of the time

[spirit2011]

Not that weird. Most Non MU movies keep too close to the source material without pragmatic adaption. And in the source material, Karma was away from the team 90% of the time

Fox x-men have almost nothing to do with the comics canon. Look at first class, relationships... very different from comics

[The Cool Thatguy]

Fox x-men have almost nothing to do with the comics canon. Look at first class, relationships... very different from comics

After First Class, largely, yes.

But there were a few X-movies before it

And the things that they changed from canon there barely made any sense.

Basically, Fox, by in large, only knows how to screw up X-men movies.

[spirit2011]

After First Class, largely, yes.

But there were a few X-movies before it

And the things that they changed from canon there barely made any sense.

Basically, Fox, by in large, only knows how to screw up X-men movies.

I know, they kept some overall story that didn't followed that close the comics. Iceman was a teen and dated Rogue. The most faithful thing was jean-wolverine-scott triangle
Fox never really was worried to follow comics, they made biggest modifications on all their films and screwed up badly on doing that.the books have a fairly well build story to follow up.

changing a bit to MCU, already seeing fan art of Carol and Valkyrie

[Dermie]

Yeah, that never actually happened.

Rahne was paid to follow a man who was using his powers to cheat on his wife. She discovered that he was with a man, at which point he attacked her, with intent to kill. As he was in an energy/astral form, Rahne had no idea the correct amount of force to use, and ended up killing him as she fought back.

She felt a deep sense of remorse, and again, it was self defense. Context matters.

Yep. And by no definition could that guy be called "innocent". Ned was caught cheating on his wife and immediately decided to murder the person who caught him, to protect his secret. This man was no victim.

[NexusTenebrare]

Yeah, that never actually happened.

Rahne was paid to follow a man who was using his powers to cheat on his wife. She discovered that he was with a man, at which point he attacked her, with intent to kill. As he was in an energy/astral form, Rahne had no idea the correct amount of force to use, and ended up killing him as she fought back.

She felt a deep sense of remorse, and again, it was self defense. Context matters.

Exactly, it was self defense and accidental.

A man sees that he's being stalked by a giant wolf creature and defends himself and then gets killed by said creature. But somehow it's Rahne that was acting in self-defense? From the person she was following in the first place? How delusional can you get. That's not self-defense.
If you follow someone brandishing a gun and they notice you and come at you and you then shoot them. You did not act out of self-defense. You intentionally put yourself into that situation. Just like Rahne did.
That is the context.

She barely showed remorse. And even if she did. She killed a man. Not a supervillain, but an ordinary man whose only 'crime' was that he wasn't faithfull to his wife. And she never faced justice for it. She just went on with her life as if nothing happened and it was never mentioned again.

The whole situation was disgusting.

You guys have a very warped idea of what the words self-defense and accident entail.
I would love to see you try that line of thinking in an actual court of law.

[Dermie]

A man sees that he's being stalked by a giant wolf creature and defends himself and then gets killed by said creature. But somehow it's Rahne that was acting in self-defense? From the person she was following in the first place? How delusional can you get. That's not self-defense.
If you follow someone brandishing a gun and they notice you and come at you and you then shoot them. You did not act out of self-defense. You intentionally put yourself into that situation. Just like Rahne did.
That is the context.

I'm sorry, but he then CHASED after Rahne, trying to kill her. He didn't just frighten off the giant wolf creature--he actively pursued it and attacked it. Using the logic of your own argument, he put himself in the situation where he got killed.

[Holt]

Yeah. He chased her down and was trying to kill her.

And the same could be said about Disney movies. So, again, if Disney is doing it, then I think this just gives Marvel more power to do the same. I don't think they're going all out at first and I'm sure a lot of people will be disappointed at how much better the representation could've been done, but it's a start.



I hadn't heard about that. I really like Felicia, so I'm glad she'll be getting her own book.



Yeah, the lack of Karma is what bothers me the most about this. Like, it's great if they have a lesbian couple there, but it's really frustrating that they're doing it in a movie that essentially excluded the original lesbian character. It would be like doing a Young Avengers movie with a gay couple that's not Wiccan and Hulkling. The representation is welcomed, of course, but it still leaves a bad taste in your mouth because it's not the representation you particularly cared for. Plus, the Foxverse of Marvel movies, with the exception of Deadpool, seems to be doomed anyway, so it's hard to get invested in this franchise at all. I will still hope the film does well and is well received, however, because we need all the queer representation we can get right now in Hollywood.

Right. Also the media could do better with depicting LGBT characters who aren't white (Pose is great but media as a whole still tends to prefer white gays as more palpable for a mainstream audience), so not using Karma just adds to that iffyness.