LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Fokken]

The Death's Head thing is gonna be such a let down for me. I'm not one to preemptively whine but.... well... Whaaa.

[Drops Of Venus]

The Death's Head thing is gonna be such a let down for me. I'm not one to preemptively whine but.... well... Whaaa.

Did I just read that correctly? Fokken, of all people, is having a NEGATIVE opinion on an upcoming Wiccan and Hulkling story?



But seriously, why do you think it's going to be a let down?

[Fokken]

That preview image showed the boys in their Heinberg era attire. I know, I know, I KNOW -- its probably silly to judge on the outfits ALONE but I've such high hopes for any and all appearances I'm finding myself easily let down by those kinds of "errors".

Maybe error is too strong a word but...inaccuracies? I still don't really understand the premise of their involvement so I'm also IGNORANT AF but the aesthetic thing got me shook. <lowers head in shame>

https://news.tfw2005.com/2019/04/15/...-howard-387029

[Beetle]

Kate's still wearing her costume with the stupid hip holes

[Snoop Dogg]

god bless the hip holes, they're ICONIC

[GraysonXIV]

I'm just happy we're seeing Wiccan & Hulkling in anything in the year 2019. It's been so long since their time in New Avengers. I don't think they really fit into the Death's Head mini either, but more content is more content. And it's only a mini, so the door could be open to them doing something more substantial as soon as it ends. The fact that we're seeing them in both Death's Head and that War Scrolls thing this summer makes me cautiously hopeful more could be on the horizon for them or the YA generally.

Also, agreed re: Kate's hip holes being iconic.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

Ok, so I kinda want to vent about something to other gay superhero fans so please bare with me if this turns into a very cynical rant.

I've been pretty frustrated with all the rumours and lack of confirmed info from Marvel about this upcoming Eternals movie. I have never expected Marvel (or any other studio for that matter) to give us the gay equivalent of Black Panther or Wonder Woman/Captain Marvel. As much as I would love to go see a movie about a gay male superhero and then walk out of the theatre with my hands stretched to the sky and tears running down my face while I shout; "Finally! FINALLYYYYY!" I just don't expect that to ever happen.

When these rumours of Marvel looking for an openly gay actor to play the lead character in an upcoming movie started I was skeptical and obviously I still am, but nonetheless I still felt the glimmer of hope. However as the weeks have gone by and the rumours have changed again and again, it feels like each time the glimmer of hope fades more and more.

What I mean is that I was hoping that The Eternals would finally give us a full-fledged gay superhero on the big screen, the gay equivalent of Captain America, Thor, Superman, Black Panther, etc. But what little information about this movie that there is suggests that it won't do that. The rumours kept changing and now it doesn't sound like the gay character is going to be the real "lead" in this movie. It looks more and more like this will be a film centered around a different character, most likely Angelina Jolie's character, and that any gay character (if there even is one) will be just a minor supporting character in a crowded cast.

My hope that we would finally see a gay man driving the plot and being in the center of the action and admiration of a mainstream blockbuster movie has now been replaced with the suspicion that the gay character is going to be the supportive friend who helps the main character(s) regain their confidence so they can be the one(s) to defeat the villain and save the day.

I might be wrong about this, I certainly hope that I am wrong. Maybe the gay character will be central to the plot of the story, maybe he'll get a cool action scene, maybe he'll even get a compelling story arc... or maybe he'll spend most of the movie's runtime standing in the background lending words of encouragement. The character has been described as “intellectual, emotional, and has a strong sense of family”, maybe that description can apply to a wide range of characters and I'm worried over nothing. Maybe I should just be happy that they might include a gay character at all even if he is just a minor supporting figure instead of the new Thor. I don't know, I just wish Marvel would hurry up and give us some concrete details about this movie and what we can expect.

[Dermie]

A little late, but here is...

The Week In Gay:

Age Of X-Man: Amazing Nightcrawler #3 of 5 - Mystique is in this

Age Of X-Man: NextGen #3 of 5 - Anole

Avengers: No Road Home #10 - cameos by America Chavez, Hulkling and Toni Ho in the real world, as well as cameos of several other LGBT characters in The House Of Ideas. Hercules gets a new status quo.

Guardians Of The Galaxy #4

Thor #12 - Loki is the focus on this issue

Uncanny X-Men #16 - Karma is part of the current ensemble

War Of The Realms #2 of 6 - Valkyrie (Brunnhilde) has a significant involvement in this one

West Coast Avengers #10 - sadly this is the final issue of this very fun series. 4 of the 8 heroes in the book in this issue are LGBT.

Wolverine: Infinity Watch #3 of 5 - Loki co-stars in this. This issue checks in with the Fraternity of Raptors, currently led by Robbie Rider (the younger brother of Nova).

[Sutekh]

When these rumours of Marvel looking for an openly gay actor to play the lead character in an upcoming movie started I was skeptical and obviously I still am, but nonetheless I still felt the glimmer of hope. However as the weeks have gone by and the rumours have changed again and again, it feels like each time the glimmer of hope fades more and more.

Yeah, we read 'gay male lead' and then 'centers around a love story between Ikaris and Sersi.'

That's only gonna work with a 'gay male lead' if Sersi is cast as a dude (and, wow, I almost want to see Angelina Jolie pull *that* off... M. Butterfly, through a mirror, darkly!).

So, instead, I imagine the gay Eternal will be the sexless best friend of Ikaris who gets a few supportive lines in the movie, but is otherwise about as important to the movies narrative as the left rear wheel of a quinjet.

But, really, I think I'd rather that the first major MCU gay male presence on-screen be someone who is already there in the comics. Our African-American (or just plain African) heroes have been Falcon, War Machine and Black Panther, who were already black in the comics. In that vein, rather than inventing a gay Eternal, I'd rather see Hulkling & Wiccan, or Northstar, eventually.

[Wiccan]

When they say lead they just mean a main character on a team movie. The thing about Ikaris and Sersi was said before it was rumored that there was gonna be a gay character in the movie. Seriously, imagine if they made that Inhumans movie and decided to make, idk, Karnak gay. Would you be "But they say it's gonna focus on Black Bolt and Medusa!!!!" as a complaint? I just don't get it.

[Fokken]

Gay representation in a Marvel film -- or any film -- is such a tricky line to straddle.

The long and short is that someone, somewhere, within the community, is going to be unhappy. Because ONE figure/character/person cannot be expected to please and represent the full spectrum of the gay experience.

Since I am a gay man, I will identify our potential gay lead as a gay man also, since that is the experience I'm most familiar with.
Some will want him to be masculine. Some will want him to be feminine. Some will want him nuanced. Some will want him continually referencing his lover/partner/conquests/ex/whatever. Some will want on-camera-banging. Some will want things more tame. Some will want him "family friendly". Some will want him to be a parent. Some will want him to be a bachelor on the prowl. Some will want him beefy. Some lithe. And to what degree of "gay" activity must said character engage in to be identifiable AS gay. The Dumbledore conundrum, for example. Acknowledging a character's sexuality off camera, in an interview, or an article but not having it "acted on" in the content of the film would be considered a disservice and/or bait & switch by many viewers. The spectrum of representation is endlessly vast, daunting, and a lot of pressure to place on a single figure.

It kind of speaks to the importance of breaking through that wall and increasing inclusivity to ensure a broader scope of gay audiences being able to identify and relate to these characters.

This kind of discussion is what I often enjoy most when people bring up Jean Paul & Kyle and Billy & Teddy and has me wondering about whether this sort of debate/concern/interest is as strong with our lesbian couples ( Karolina & Nico, Angela & Sera, America & Ramone, Valkyrie & ....that one girl, etc etc) and if the masc vs femm is a talking point or not in that arena.

Anyhow.
Uh... thanks for existing LGBT THREAD and its wonderful inhabitants. These discussions bring me joy.

[Anduinel]

What's everyone's opinion on Northstar's marriage? I know most don't like Kyle, mainly because of his perceived neediness or selfish behavior. But my problem wasn't with Kyle per-se, I just think it's hard for any superhero relationship, regardless of sexuality, to seem interesting when one of the lover is a non-hero. Double with the fact that despite being the first, Northstar is C-list hero who is barely on the team and is not popular enough to have his own series.
I would have rather see Jean-Paul unmarried and gotten closer with Bobby -- not so they would get together romantically, but for Jean-Paul to be that friend Bobby needed when handling his self-acceptance. Maybe after a few years of tight friendship then maybe a relationship.

I'm a big fan of Northstar and Kyle as a couple, for a lot of reasons. Short version:

- I like hero/civvie pairings. I like the compare and contrast, complications, emotional stakes, and the grounding influence inherent in most of those couples, regardless of whether the civ partner is more action-oriented (a la Steve Trevor) or the brainy type (Lois Lane).

- For Northstar in particular, looking for love outside of the superhero community is in-character. He's always been a reluctant hero and never a full-time superhero. Most of his interests were out in the wider world.

- I like Kyle as part of Northstar's character arc, from the angry outsider-by-choice in Alpha Flight, to finding a worthy cause he believes in with the X-Men, and finally having the love of someone who always has his back (something he never even got from his own sister).

- I just like Kyle. Yeah, he's cute and supportive and all that good ****, but he can also go toe-to-toe with Northstar when it comes to snark, and I've liked his development of getting closer to the X-Men, despite a rocky start. (Also, given that every instance I've seen of Kyle being tagged as selfish/racist/whatever has been either a very selective reading or fabricated nonsense, that's always something I give automatic side-eye.)

All that said, I'd like the relationship to be given more development and used for more than backpats on Marvel's part. Bringing Kyle in to help the X-Men with their perpetually awful PR would be 1) a good way to give the character purpose without making him a quest object/damsel-in-distress (FFS, did no editor notice they did that plot three times in a row?), 2) a chance to get some human supporting cast back in the books and end the isolationist streak the X-Men have had going since M-Day (the Central Park move was another wasted opportunity to correct that, imo), and 3) get at least marginally more representation into a franchise sustained by a minority metaphor but still overwhelmingly represented by straight, white characters.

This kind of discussion is what I often enjoy most when people bring up Jean Paul & Kyle and Billy & Teddy and has me wondering about whether this sort of debate/concern/interest is as strong with our lesbian couples ( Karolina & Nico, Angela & Sera, America & Ramone, Valkyrie & ....that one girl, etc etc) and if the masc vs femm is a talking point or not in that arena.

NGL, I think America's solo broke a lot of her fans. Even outside of the boards, it feels like enthusiasm for the character just dropped off a cliff.

[Fokken]

I would agree, to the point of arguing: We don't speak of America's solo.

It had ONE THING that I liked about it, from a narrative standpoint, and even THAT got flubbed as the story progressed.

[Star_Jammer]

Regarding America’s solo...yeah, I’m fine if that **** NEVER gets referenced again.

[Crimz]

It's sad that America has never had a solo.