View Poll Results: Who is your favourite 616 Marvel LGBT character?

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  • ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]

    26 3.53%
  • BLING! [Roxanne ‘Roxy’ Washington]

    12 1.63%
  • CULLEN BLOODSTONE

    20 2.71%
  • DAKEN AKIHIRO

    42 5.70%
  • HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]

    35 4.75%
  • KARMA [Xi’an Coy Mahn]

    40 5.43%
  • KAROLINA DEAN

    43 5.83%
  • LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief

    62 8.41%
  • MOONDRAGON [Heather Douglas]

    38 5.16%
  • MYSTIQUE [Raven Darkholme]

    108 14.65%
  • NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier]

    60 8.14%
  • PRODIGY [David Alleyne]

    21 2.85%
  • RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]

    36 4.88%
  • SHATTERSTAR [Gaveedra-7]

    46 6.24%
  • WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan], the Demiurge

    148 20.08%
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  1. #14221
    Astonishing Member King_Thor13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anduinel View Post
    Liu was hoping to set up something between Karma and Warbird during Astonishing X-Men, but just didn't have the page space. I suspect I would have much rather had that than another retelling of "Well, maybe the alien really does share human values after all", but it probably would have been too much of a stretch after making Warbird the designated 'phobe at Northstar's wedding.
    You learn something everyday. I don't mind that it didn't happen, because from what I remember of the run and of Warbird as a character, it wouldn't be the best fit. And, as you say, Warbird wasn't the most supportive individual when it came to JP & Kyle tying the knot.

    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Well, I mean, I'm just surprised nobody created a character to be her girlfriend at any point. Obviously there's not a lot of good contenders, which I guess is part of my point.
    Probably because it's hard to get an original character to stick. I mean, ngl, I've already forgotten the name of Iceman's boyfriend from the Sina Grace series and I loved that book. That title ran into a lot of the same problems, and Bobby's ideal love interest has been contended too. I mean, we were presented with Daken and Pyro, and there are fan ships of him with Cannonball, Northstar, Sunfire etc. but I don't feel any of those quite work either. (personally I'd love to see him & Lightning together but that's another discussion)

    As said, there aren't many great contenders from existing characters that feels like a natural fit. And while I suppose there's opportunity to have an established character come out, realistically few writers find the time or opportunity to have that be the scope of their story, especially when it comes to the narrative of C-List characters like Xi'an.

  2. #14222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    Warbird was gross. I'd take just about anyone over her
    Oh, agreed. She was just about tolerable under Liu (still a walking pile of cliches, but that's what the lady had to work with to start), but Aaron's writing was absolute garbage and one of the reasons I loathed the character. Especially her ongoing sexual harassment of Iceman being played for laughs, which looks even worse in hindsight than it did at the time. Give a stalker tits and sexual assault is suddenly hilarious, I guess.

    This Week's Comics: Powers of X #3, James Bond 007 #10, Valkarie #2

  3. #14223
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Thor13 View Post
    Probably because it's hard to get an original character to stick. I mean, ngl, I've already forgotten the name of Iceman's boyfriend from the Sina Grace series and I loved that book. That title ran into a lot of the same problems, and Bobby's ideal love interest has been contended too. I mean, we were presented with Daken and Pyro, and there are fan ships of him with Cannonball, Northstar, Sunfire etc. but I don't feel any of those quite work either. (personally I'd love to see him & Lightning together but that's another discussion)

    As said, there aren't many great contenders from existing characters that feels like a natural fit. And while I suppose there's opportunity to have an established character come out, realistically few writers find the time or opportunity to have that be the scope of their story, especially when it comes to the narrative of C-List characters like Xi'an.
    I mean, Northstar is something of a good example. Rather than go to existing characters, a new character was created to be his love interest. By chance things worked out in a way that keeps Kyle around (so long as Northstar is around, that is). I totally get that it's hard to make a new character stick, but the X-Men even more than other Marvel franchises are just loaded with failed, forgotten attempts at new characters. But Karma doesn't even have one of those.

    I guess by the time Marvel started allowing openly gay relationships in their books, she'd fallen more into obscurity. Shame, she's a cool character. Though, according to the Marvel Wikia, Claremont could've done with a little more research into Vietnam when creating her.

    Karma's real name "Xi'an Coy Manh" is grammatically wrong in Vietnamese; the name also does not exist nor can be pronounced as "Shi-ahn" in real life. This might have happened due to the writer's lack of knowledge of the Vietnamese language.

  4. #14224
    Astonishing Member King_Thor13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I mean, Northstar is something of a good example. Rather than go to existing characters, a new character was created to be his love interest. By chance things worked out in a way that keeps Kyle around (so long as Northstar is around, that is). I totally get that it's hard to make a new character stick, but the X-Men even more than other Marvel franchises are just loaded with failed, forgotten attempts at new characters. But Karma doesn't even have one of those.

    I guess by the time Marvel started allowing openly gay relationships in their books, she'd fallen more into obscurity. Shame, she's a cool character. Though, according to the Marvel Wikia, Claremont could've done with a little more research into Vietnam when creating her.
    Well in the case of JP&Kyle I think they were more fleshed out, and given room to grow. But yes, it's not that its impossible to create a new character for the sake of a love interest, just that with thousands of characters at their disposal, people tend to be very 'meh' on new additions to the wider MU y'know? The last thing we need is another OC that's brushed aside by the next writer that comes along and then we don't see them again, or are made to wait for a very long period of time for them to grace our pages once more. And you're not wrong with the X-Men being particularly full- it seems that most X-Writers like to plant an OC into the world of the X-Men, hence why the totality of the roster is so ridiculously large nowadays. And yes, a love interest for Xi'an is something we've yet to see. Rachel Summers or Kara Killgrave aren't bad options as far as romantic partners go.

    And there's that. It's only been somewhat recently we've started to see more LGBT couples represented, and Xi'an hasn't been at the core of the X-Line since she and the other New Mutants were in their prime. I admit I never really gravitated towards her, but only because she never really felt as fleshed out as the others to me. She & Amara have always been the least interesting of the group just in their inability (at least up until this point) to produce character narratives I'm particularly interested in.

  5. #14225
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Although Teddy must also technically have some accelerated aging at some point, because he was conceived after Franklin Richards was born and yet is still older than him even after Franklin just got age-jumped while travelling the multiverse. The "they can't be THAT old yet due to Marvel Time" factor is something that people always remember with Wiccan and Speed (and is excused through magic), but it is frequently overlooked when it comes to Teddy.

    Since we know his caretaker (who he thought was his mother) was supposed to keep him safe from his parents' enemies, I wonder if she either artificially accelerated his aging (as was done with Genis and Phyla for the same reasons), or if she somehow had access to some limited time-travel technology--jumped a few years back in time, so by the time anyone came looking for the baby he wouldn't be a baby anymore. Those are the best two options I've come up with thus far.
    Yeah, I've brought up the weirdness of Teddy's age once around here. There is no way the Kree/Skrull War is as old as he is in the MU, so there should definitely be an explanation for his age. I like that James Robinson took the time to acknowledge that Billy and Tommy's ages didn't match the Maximoff babies in the Scarlet Witch solo, so he left open to interpration two possible scenarios: either the babies took over the bodies of two children who were already born, or they time traveled and reincarnated in the past. I wish some writer would do the same for Teddy.

    His adoptive mom artifically aging him and giving him false memories of an early childhood on Earth is my guess as well, as that would've been a good way to disguise him. I guess they could also say that due to the fact that he and his mom traveled through space, time passed differently for them, so by the time they arrived on Earth, Teddy was older than someone raised there. Although that would raise the question as to why he didn't remember having an early childhood in space...
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 06-05-2019 at 04:53 AM.

  6. #14226
    Mighty Member Dante Milton's Avatar
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    Anole and Graymalkin.

    Graymalkin's character design is so boring, I wonder if that is partially responsible for why he never really caught on.

  7. #14227
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Billy and Tommy's ages didn't match the Maximoff babies in the Scarlet Witch solo, so he left open to interpration two possible scenarios: either the babies took over the bodies of two children who were already born, or they time traveled and reincarnated in the past.
    Huh, see, I just assumed it was just that Wanda's reality warping aged them up and dropped them into the Marvel Universe, changed the universe around them. Not time-travel, but more akin to how Miles Morales has been integrated into Earth-616. I suppose this might just be splitting hairs here, but... like, House of M isn't premised on Wanda using her powers to go back in time to change the past and produce a different premise. House of M, reality was just changed into something else. Yes, it had a different past, but that past was created at the same moment as the present.

    So it isn't that they didn't have a past, or that they travel back in time, but that their past was created in inserted into reality.

  8. #14228
    Mighty Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Yeah, I've brought up the weirdness of Teddy's age once around here. There is no way the Kree/Skrull War is as old as he is in the MU, so there should definitely be an explanation for his age. I like that James Robinson took the time to acknowledge that Billy and Tommy's ages didn't match the Maximoff babies in the Scarlet Witch solo, so he left open to interpration two possible scenarios: either the babies took over the bodies of two children who were already born, or they time traveled and reincarnated in the past. I wish some writer would do the same for Teddy.

    His adoptive mom artifically aging him and giving him false memories of an early childhood on Earth is my guess as well, as that would've been a good way to disguise him. I guess they could also say that due to the fact that he and his mom traveled through space, time passed differently for them, so by the time they arrived on Earth, Teddy was older than someone raised there. Although that would raise the question as to why he didn't remember having an early childhood in space...
    Teddy could just look older than he actually is, as a hybrid of two alien races he could have matured through infancy faster than Franklin and as a shapeshifter settled on an age once Janice Altman enrolled him in school. He just might not remember being any younger than let's say 5 years old because that period of his life only lasted for a few months.

    My issue with James Robinson's explanations for Billy and Tommy's ages is that it ignores the fact that Wanda was a straight up reality warper. At the height of her power she could have just created new bodies and lives for Billy and Tommy, placed them with their respective families, and given everyone retroactive memories and histories, and it would be as real as anything else

  9. #14229
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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  10. #14230
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    GotG Annual spoiwees uwu:

    spoilers:
    AVRIL IS FUCKING ALIIIIIVE!!!! THANK YOU EWING-SAMA!! I hope this “no compromise, no mercy” team is written by Ewing so they can go rescue her
    end of spoilers

  11. #14231
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    2017 Nick Spencer: "And then Avril says, 'See you soon.' We'll get back to her later!"

    Also 2017 Nick Spencer: "So yeah, I really think Rick's death is important to how the story is remembered, but I don't own the character."

    Fans and H8ers of Spencer Cap: where's avril FORK

    2018 Al Ewing: "Right then, let's bring the devil back. And Rick becomes A-b-o-m--"

    2018 Nick Spencer appears from the darkness with a swarm of centipedes: "nOt sO fAsT eWiNg, yOu'Re bReAkInG tHe RuLeS oF tHe GaMe--"

    Ewing: "I'll bring Avril back."

    Spencipede: "Okay, we're even."
    end of spoilers

  12. #14232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    Teddy could just look older than he actually is, as a hybrid of two alien races he could have matured through infancy faster than Franklin and as a shapeshifter settled on an age once Janice Altman enrolled him in school. He just might not remember being any younger than let's say 5 years old because that period of his life only lasted for a few months.
    The problem with the idea of him shapeshifting to look older than his actual age is that depending on just how big the discrepancy is, it runs the risk of accidentally making Wiccan a child molester (even if the gap is just a few years--if Billy is age of consent and Teddy technically isn't). That is a potential mess best avoided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    My issue with James Robinson's explanations for Billy and Tommy's ages is that it ignores the fact that Wanda was a straight up reality warper. At the height of her power she could have just created new bodies and lives for Billy and Tommy, placed them with their respective families, and given everyone retroactive memories and histories, and it would be as real as anything else
    I suspect that is what they truly meant the 'time travel/reincarnation' option -- just using different words. By warping reality she recreated them at an earlier point in time.

  13. #14233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Yeah, I've brought up the weirdness of Teddy's age once around here. There is no way the Kree/Skrull War is as old as he is in the MU, so there should definitely be an explanation for his age. I like that James Robinson took the time to acknowledge that Billy and Tommy's ages didn't match the Maximoff babies in the Scarlet Witch solo, so he left open to interpration two possible scenarios: either the babies took over the bodies of two children who were already born, or they time traveled and reincarnated in the past. I wish some writer would do the same for Teddy.

    His adoptive mom artifically aging him and giving him false memories of an early childhood on Earth is my guess as well, as that would've been a good way to disguise him. I guess they could also say that due to the fact that he and his mom traveled through space, time passed differently for them, so by the time they arrived on Earth, Teddy was older than someone raised there. Although that would raise the question as to why he didn't remember having an early childhood in space...
    Why hasn't this been hashed out, does anyone know? Do they really expect Allan Heinberg to come back? Their general lack of development makes it seem like they actually expect that

  14. #14234
    Mighty Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    The problem with the idea of him shapeshifting to look older than his actual age is that depending on just how big the discrepancy is, it runs the risk of accidentally making Wiccan a child molester (even if the gap is just a few years--if Billy is age of consent and Teddy technically isn't). That is a potential mess best avoided.
    I mean it depends, he's got the mental maturity of a young adult male.
    There are clones and genetically engineered characters all over Marvel who are chronologically younger than they are mentally and physically. It's just a conceit of the genre.
    The Stepford Cuckoos, Nate Grey, Victor Mancha, etc

  15. #14235
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    GotG Annual spoiwees uwu:

    spoilers:
    AVRIL IS FUCKING ALIIIIIVE!!!! THANK YOU EWING-SAMA!! I hope this “no compromise, no mercy” team is written by Ewing so they can go rescue her
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    What are the best Avril appearances? I remember when she first showed up, and I remember her spot in Secret Empire, but I can't remember much else with her...
    end of spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Why hasn't this been hashed out, does anyone know? Do they really expect Allan Heinberg to come back? Their general lack of development makes it seem like they actually expect that
    I don't think the have any expectation of Heinberg coming back. The relatively small amount of Young Avengers content relates to a few factors. One part of it is that they've had comparatively few appearances. They aren't like, say, Spider-Man, where most Marvel writers could probably write him in their sleep.

    Also, by around the time of Children's Crusade, the Young Avengers had become something of a prestige property. Marvel likes to be picky with the creative teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    I mean it depends, he's got the mental maturity of a young adult male.
    There are clones and genetically engineered characters all over Marvel who are chronologically younger than they are mentally and physically. It's just a conceit of the genre.
    The Stepford Cuckoos, Nate Grey, Victor Mancha, etc
    I think ultimately its just a case of the Marvel Universe whole wibbly-wobbly sliding timescale. At the end of the day, the Kree-Skrull War happened as long ago as it needs to for Teddy's age.

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