LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Anduinel]

It sucks, but to play Devil's advocate, Marvel are a business, not a social concern. If their market research says a gay character wont sell, or could actively hurt the money making ability of the character, then it's their duty as a business to 'protect' that asset.

Thing is, though, this wasn't a preliminary discussion. Marvel had already decided to do a solo book about a gay character discovering his gay identity written by a gay man best known for doing autobio comics about his gay self. Gayness - specifically Bobby's journey of self-discovery - was the hook! To then go "but don't make it too gay!" means someone was numb from the neck up.

And the book sold despite that! It just found its audience outside of the DM.

[scourge]

It sucks, but to play Devil's advocate, Marvel are a business, not a social concern. If their market research says a gay character wont sell, or could actively hurt the money making ability of the character, then it's their duty as a business to 'protect' that asset.

Usually when a company trots out the 'market research' excuse, its "oh no, some bigots online threw a fit" or "executive #3 got pissy". Not any actual research into the market or any accurate gauge of how things will be.

[Beetle]

Could be Riri Williams, she seems to have completely shutdown Viv and isn't pursuing anything more with her without even considering it.

And she's made headlines a few times recently with MCU actors saying they want Ironheart in future movies

[legion_quest]

Thing is, though, this wasn't a preliminary discussion. Marvel had already decided to do a solo book about a gay character discovering his gay identity written by a gay man best known for doing autobio comics about his gay self. Gayness - specifically Bobby's journey of self-discovery - was the hook! To then go "but don't make it too gay!" means someone was numb from the neck up.

And the book sold despite that! It just found its audience outside of the DM.

I suppose it depends just how gay Grace wanted to make it - there is going to be a balance at play. When Sina says Marvel didnt want him to make the book too gay, for all we know, that could mean they didnt want him to make the book so gay that it would be hard to access from someone not up on gay culture or part of the community. I mean, I doubt that would be what was meant, but it's possible.

But sure, like I followed up with, there does appear something was/is going on with someone at Marvel not really wanting to push a gay solo book.

[Strong Girl Daken]

Grace wanted full on gay porn and the heroes at the Marvel office put a stop to his dastardly plans.

[NexusTenebrare]

I think we will, if not at first. We are about to get a gay lead in Eternals. I don't actually think that the movies side of things thinks this way, at least anymore, but that the actual writers and editors of the comics that the movies are based on do think this way and it's backwards. Like, there's also no way that when we eventually get a Young Avengers movie that it won't have Billy, Teddy, and maybe even America. Literally no way.

Also? The character is absolutely Kamala Khan.

There has been zero evidence of Kamala being in any way interested in other girls. Not sure where your absolutely comes from.

It could be Riri, like Beetle said, but I think it's a bit early to say that she's shut down Viv completely. Maybe they're taking their time with her coming to terms with her sexuality.

Personally I think the character in question is Nadia. There was a line that gave indication that she had no interest in boys, but they haven't really done anything with that since then. She also has movie synergy of sorts with Hope from the Ant-Man movies.

[Wiccan]

I would bet it's Riri. I don't think there has been much indication of Kamala being gay or any female character she has romantic subtext with. Nadya is likely too, though at that point I feel like she's just so different from MCU Hope, that limiting her based on movie sinergy doesn't even make sense. Riri isn't in the movies at all, yeah, but it's clear that Marvel wants to make her a star in the same vein as Kamala and Miles.

[J. D. Guy]

Sina Grace talking about his experience working on Iceman and for Marvel...... and it sounds rough:

https://sinagrace.tumblr.com/post/18...s-time-i-spoke

Can't say I'm surprised honestly.

This is really unfortunate. It does cast a bit of a pallor over the work, that Sina had to go through all of that. Marvel actively discouraging self-pushed publicity on the book, when no ones else has this problem, is asinine.

[J. D. Guy]

Did anyone else see this comment from Reddit from the thread where they were discussing the Sina Grace essay? Not only is it disgusting, the fact that there’s so many characters it could be is also gross. My personal bets are on Riri or Nadia.

Attachment 83986

Do you have a link? I tried googling it, but all I found was a short thread that wasn't very nuanced in its posts. Or very sympathetic. (They presumptuously accused Sina Grace of being presumptuous for asking for more work and for expressing displeasure at being kept at arms-length.)

[Drops Of Venus]

Did anyone else see this comment from Reddit from the thread where they were discussing the Sina Grace essay? Not only is it disgusting, the fact that there’s so many characters it could be is also gross. My personal bets are on Riri or Nadia.

Attachment 83986

Nadia or Riri sound like good bets. If this was a while ago, I would doubt it. But right now in the Cebulski era? I don't. It definitely seems like he was tasked with ''making Marvel great again'', as in, trying to ''clean'' the image of the publisher after what was perceived as a ''PC/SJW'' era by many people. I doubt Iceman would ever be allowed to come out now, for instance. The funny thing is, even though Marvel Comics is pretty much like a vulture in terms of movie synergy, it doesn't seem like the movies are on the same page with what's happening in recent comics. Carol gets her long hair back after years of dudebros complaining about her ''looking like a man'' and then the movies went and cut her hair short instead. Sam lost his shield and relevance in the comics so Steve could be front and center again, but the movies went and did the opposite of that. If anything, feels like Marvel Studios is the one who's about to enter their diversity era, and it's going to be funny to see how Marvel Comics responds to that.

Given some of the recent stuff I've heard from Marvel writers, it doesn't surprise me in the least. I'll be absolutely shocked if we see Iceman in the MCU X-Men.

Like I said just above, I don't think Marvel Studios and Marvel Comics are on the same page. Depending on how the gay representation on Eternals goes, I won't be surprised if we have gay Iceman in the MCU.

[H-E-D]

Marvel Studios and Marvel Comics have been pretty certifiably out of sync with each other for a long while now. They don't even answer to the same people in the corporate structure.

[legion_quest]

Marvel Studios and Marvel Comics have been pretty certifiably out of sync with each other for a long while now. They don't even answer to the same people in the corporate structure.

And given who the comic side does answer to, is anyone really surprised by Sina's comments?

[Holt]

Comics are such a niche industry now that I'm actually wondering how much, if any shits Disney actually has about what goes on. For the most part I think Disney only cares about the company as far as IP generation for more profitable mediums (movies, TV shows, video games, toys, ect.) are concerned.

[Holt]

Like I said just above, I don't think Marvel Studios and Marvel Comics are on the same page. Depending on how the gay representation on Eternals goes, I won't be surprised if we have gay Iceman in the MCU.

To me, Iceman seems exactly the type of character to have in the movies if they want brownie points for diversity. He's gay but he's part of an ensemble and not a leading man (until very recently). They're not gonna risk a 150 million dollar solo film on him, but as part of a team that has a bunch of other hugely popular characters to act as a buffer? That seems entirely reasonable. I think it's still gonna be a long while before Disney and the rest of Hollywood risk that kind of change on a solo gay lead, but part of a team seems like the most likely starting point. In fact, Renee Montoya is in the Birds of Prey movie, so we'll see how her sexuality is handled there and if there's any actual backlash.

[Dante Milton]

Hulkling and Wiccan.