VILLAINS! Your Thoughts On: DOCTOR PSYCHO!

[Dr. Hurt]

WW by no means loved Psycho the way she loved Trevor. She had no romantic feelings for him, she just showed that she doesnt care about his exterior and she indeed cared for his wellbeing. That's a whole other thing from dating someone.

[Carabas]

Where the do you see a demonstration of love for Doctor Psycho?!?

[dshipp17]

WW by no means loved Psycho the way she loved Trevor. She had no romantic feelings for him, she just showed that she doesnt care about his exterior and she indeed cared for his wellbeing. That's a whole other thing from dating someone.

The implication that pre-crisis Wonder Woman is giving is 'oh, I didn't think about that, I'm with Steve'; so, she couldn't love him romantically, since she's already with Steve, but, being concerned for his emotional well being demonstrates her love; that's a ton more than post-crisis Wonder Woman can demonstrate; what, you propose that she just ignore Dr. Psycho's well being, and that demonstrates she's more loving, or she did that for a handsome man, instead of Dr. Psycho, demonstrating she's more loving? Because, that's all post-crisis Wonder Woman can show for herself.

[dshipp17]

Where the do you see a demonstration of love for Doctor Psycho?!?

My response showed it, but, the implication is that she went through extraordinary lengths to have compassion for Dr. Psycho's well being; that demonstrates her love for Dr. Psycho far in excess of anything post-crisis Wonder Woman can so far show for herself.

[Carabas]

love

[Dr. Hurt]

The implication that pre-crisis Wonder Woman is giving is 'oh, I didn't think about that, I'm with Steve'; so, she couldn't love him romantically, since she's already with Steve, but, being concerned for his emotional well being demonstrates her love; that's a ton more than post-crisis Wonder Woman can demonstrate; what, you propose that she just ignore Dr. Psycho's well being, and that demonstrates she's more loving, or she did that for a handsome man, instead of Dr. Psycho, demonstrating she's more loving? Because, that's all post-crisis Wonder Woman can show for herself.

No, she acted like the good person she is. I dont want her to act differently. But my question is why did you want her to marry Hades when he was an extorshioninst, abductor, and abuser? She loves him in the friendly way and tries to help him, but she wont submit to him if he is like this. You cant control your emotions (in this case Diana's sympathy and caring) but you can control your actions. Why would you subjugate yourself to torment when someone clearly doesnt deserve you? A woman might love her husband but if he abuses her, she should get the hell out of there. It's as simple as that. Feeling love for someone sometimes isnt enough.

[dshipp17]

I know exactly what love means, but you say me get potentially restrict in how I should describe love; the definition of love that I've been restricted to use is what's deficient, especially since I have to disagree with parts of it, as not fully complete.

[dshipp17]

Well, even in canon they are two completely seperate people.

You do seem to be suggesting that if she really loved Hades she would have married him, which is sheer lunacy.

Love does when it comes to marriage. Or at least it should. She knew what Hades is like, the only way she could have married him is if she didn't have even a little bit of love for her friends or herself, if she only loved Hades.

Aaaand she did. Mostly. She thought him how to love himself, which would be a pretty big first step.

Not really.

Kidnapped hern blackmailed her into the marriage, threatened to kill her, put a noose around her neck...
You're one twisted nugget if that's not abuse to you. And that's not even going into his history with his actual wife Persephone.

The words are English, but they don't really seem to mean anything.

And he wasn't.

That's... No, ew.

It's really hard to tell.

Yeah, Psycho is probably worse by several degrees.

I think you need to take a long, hard look at what you have been writing.


Oh my god, you think this is all about Hades not being a handsome hunk?

It's not lunacy to marry someone to demonstrate your love for them; it's a matter that depends on the circumstances. You've just told me what love should do from your eyes, but that doesn't have to apply under the circumstances where you're trying to determine whether a character actually escaped falling in love based upon another character's looks. Dr. Psycho is not worse than Hades in any way, except maybe in the looks category, because issue 160 of volume one showed his willingness to adjust his course based upon Wonder Woman's actions. That's not abuse in the context that we were previously discussing it; Hades would have to have demonstrated that abuse, not have potential for that type of abuse.

[Step]

What would be the difference between love and lust? Obviously, you believe you're making good points, but, from what I'm reading, you seem to be blending love and lust together, as if you don't quite understand how to separate the two.

Yes, to be considerate of Dr. Psycho's feelings, in loving him, she can pretend to have romantic feelings for Dr. Psycho even if you doesn't; she can than get to know Dr. Psycho better, and actually form a love deeper than lust, which is romantic; thus she could pretend and actually bypass the romantic feelings to develop a deep affection for Dr. Psycho which is love. Love drives Wonder Woman past Dr. Psycho's emotional and mental shortcomings; and issue 160 of volume one actually demonstrated that Dr. Psycho would turn from hid ways, not continue on the path of demonstrating his grudge against women. Hades was demonstrating the opposite. Ares is the personification of unjust wars, which includes genocide and mass rape, yet wonder Woman moved past that to consider Ares a mentor and get closer to Ares; it's about the character that Wonder Woman has shown potential to resemble. I than have to wonder why it's selectively not there when it came to Dr. Psycho, post-crisis speaking; essentially, she's implying that Dr. Psycho is not worthy of her, because of his looks, and that's shallow, if true. The only why to resolve the answer is to have many issues featuring Dr. Psycho in grey areas, instead of black and white villain roles.

What what what??? If Wonder Woman doesn't feel anything between someone she shouldn't have justify it or go out with them, that doesn't mean she doesn't have Unconditional Love, love is much more broad a concept than romantic love, and it definitely doesn't involve lying to yourself, what your suggesting is that she should sacrifice her agency just to please some man she feels nothing for, and not just some man, an evil man, like she's rewarding him for his actions.

If that is the definition of "unconditional love" then I'm glad Wonder Woman doesn't have it, it's unhealthy.

[Dr. Hurt]

What would be the difference between love and lust? Obviously, you believe you're making good points, but, from what I'm reading, you seem to be blending love and lust together, as if you don't quite understand how to separate the two.

Yes, to be considerate of Dr. Psycho's feelings, in loving him, she can pretend to have romantic feelings for Dr. Psycho even if she doesn't; she can than get to know Dr. Psycho better, and actually form a love deeper than lust, which is probably what causes romantic love, depending on the subject's actual ability to love versus who that person may have confused the subject of her affections with for love (e.g. I'd say your argument has more to do with being unable to demonstrate lust for Dr. Psycho; of that, I agree; she can't demonstrate lust for a character she's truly not attracted to); thus she could pretend and actually bypass the romantic feelings to develop a deep affection for Dr. Psycho which is love. Love drives Wonder Woman past Dr. Psycho's emotional and mental shortcomings; and issue 160 of volume one actually demonstrated that Dr. Psycho would turn from his ways, not continue on the path of demonstrating his grudge against women. Hades was demonstrating the opposite, and has demonstrated the opposite. Ares is the personification of unjust wars, which includes genocide and mass rape, yet Wonder Woman moved past that to consider Ares a mentor and get closer to Ares; it's about the character that Wonder Woman has shown potential to resemble. I than have to wonder why it's selectively not there when it came to Dr. Psycho, post-crisis speaking; essentially, she's implying that Dr. Psycho is not worthy of her, because of his looks, and that's shallow, if true. The only way to resolve the answer is to have many issues featuring Dr. Psycho in grey areas, instead of black and white villain roles. This approach has more to do with developing the Wonder Woman character than to do with bringing Dr. Psycho into the picture, at least from my perspective, as the person most recommending this approach.

And what about all the other murderers and rapists out there? How can she unconditionally love everyone when she gives herself to Psycho? What about the Joker? If she's with Psycho she wont be able to force herself to be with him in hopes of reforming him. Poor Mistah Jay.

[dshipp17]

What what what??? If Wonder Woman doesn't feel anything between someone she shouldn't have justify it or go out with them, that doesn't mean she doesn't have Unconditional Love, love is much more broad a concept than romantic love, and it definitely doesn't involve lying to yourself, what your suggesting is that she should sacrifice her agency just to please some man she feels nothing for, and not just some man, an evil man, like she's rewarding him for his actions.

If that is the definition of "unconditional love" then I'm glad Wonder Woman doesn't have it, it's unhealthy.

As my full statement says, you're confusing lust with love; I agree that she cannot have lust for Dr. Psycho or Hades, but she can bypass that to form deep affection, by simply getting to know Dr. Psycho better; I'm actually talking about bypassing the lust stage to develop real love. You're out of luck than, because Wonder Woman has demonstrated her capacity for lust in having the hots for Batman, Superman, and Steve Trevor; I'd like to see if she has the capacity for love and not just lust.

[dshipp17]

And what about all the other murderers and rapists out there? How can she unconditionally love everyone when she gives herself to Psycho? What about the Joker? If she's with Psycho she wont be able to force herself to be with him in hopes of reforming him. Poor Mistah Jay.

Why aren't you concerned about this lack of love for everyone, now that she's with Superman instead of Dr. Psycho? Dr. Psycho hasn't physically raped anyone and only directly murdered one person; this is bringing it to perspective with a character like the Joker and the DC universe, where mass genocide is the norm.

[BlackFeath]

What would be the difference between love and lust? Obviously, you believe you're making good points, but, from what I'm reading, you seem to be blending love and lust together, as if you don't quite understand how to separate the two.

Nope, I am not blending that. Actually I have the impression it's what you are doin. I'm not saying she can't have any romantic feelings for him because she doesn't like his looks. Looks can determinate if you are phisically attracted to a person, but you can fall in love with him/her even if you don't find him/her attractive in that sense, but because you find attractive his/her personality, you want to share your life with that person in every aspect, ecc...

In the same way you can have a dear friend you like, who you can even find handsome / beautiful, but that you don't want to marry because you don't love him/her in that sense.
Or that could be some guy/girl who is really beautiful but that you can't even stand.

Yes, to be considerate of Dr. Psycho's feelings, in loving him, she can pretend to have romantic feelings for Dr. Psycho even if you doesn't; she can than get to know Dr. Psycho better, and actually form a love deeper than lust, which is romantic; thus she could pretend and actually bypass the romantic feelings to develop a deep affection for Dr. Psycho which is love. Love drives Wonder Woman past Dr. Psycho's emotional and mental shortcomings; and issue 160 of volume one actually demonstrated that Dr. Psycho would turn from hid ways, not continue on the path of demonstrating his grudge against women.

For me this would be just a lie. She would not be considerate of him in this way. What if instead she doesn't develop those feelings for him after making him believe so? I'm ok with the idea she could agree on helping him, she could even be his friend, trying to make him see what love is, and even really falling in love with him after knowing him better (this could or could not happen), but make him believe from the start she has romantic feelings for him that don't exist just so he will change, no, also because, if he discovers after that that those feelings are not true, he will just return to the starting point. This is in no way reforming him. This is making him believe he was right when he was not.

Hades was demonstrating the opposite. Ares is the personification of unjust wars, which includes genocide and mass rape, yet wonder Woman moved past that to consider Ares a mentor and get closer to Ares; it's about the character that Wonder Woman has shown potential to resemble.

She didn't love Ares or Hades in a romantic way, either xD The fact she can love someone, doesn't mean she is in love with him! But in no way I was implying she can't fall in love with a bad guy, even Dr Psycho, if it happens. She shouldn't pretend to have romantic feelings for that bad guy to reform him, though. That I don't find right at all.

I than have to wonder why it's selectively not there when it came to Dr. Psycho, post-crisis speaking; essentially, she's implying that Dr. Psycho is not worthy of her, because of his looks, and that's shallow, if true. The only why to resolve the answer is to have many issues featuring Dr. Psycho in grey areas, instead of black and white villain roles.

No, she is not implying anything of the sort. And those images you posted... She is simply showing him that his looks don't repel her, that doesn't mean she has romantic feelings for him, because in no way they depend simply on looks. That's just what he thought, and what it seems you are thinking too, that no woman, not even she, can't be with him because of his looks, that if she isn't with him it's just for his looks or because of what he has done. Can't it just be that she has not those feelings for him? u.u
If she doesn't feel that way, she doesn't, it's not her fault, just like it wasn't Psycho's friend's fault that she didn't want to marry him because she wasn't in love with him.

Dr Psycho could become the ideal man, even loving, peaceful, handsome, and all that you want. Every woman could fall at his feet, and still Wonder Woman may not have those romantic feelings for him.

[Step]

As my full statement says, you're confusing lust with love; I agree that she cannot have lust for Dr. Psycho or Hades, but she can bypass that to for deep affection, by simply getting to know Dr. Psycho better; I'm actually talking about bypassing the lust stage to develop lust. You're out of luck than, because Wonder Woman has demonstrated her capacity for lust in having the hots for Batman, Superman, and Steve Trevor; I'd like to see if she has the capacity for love and not just lust.

Lust is a sexual attraction to someone, it's pretty important in a physical/romantic relationship, and if you don't have it right out, you're probably never going to develop them, wasting time trying to date someone on the off chance that maybe, possibly, there could someday be a chance that she would develop them is a waste of time for everyone, beyond that, even if she were to do that, why should she -of ALL people- date/marry Dr. Psycho or Hades, two very evil, abusive men?

[Dr. Hurt]

Why aren't you concerned about this lack of love for everyone, now that she's with Superman instead of Dr. Psycho? Dr. Psycho hasn't physically raped anyone and only directly murdered one person; this is bringing it to perspective with a character like the Joker and the DC universe, where mass genocide is the norm.

Why would she be with someone who "she doesnt have a lust for" and who has "killed one person", instead of being with Steve Trevor who is hot, who "she has a lust for" and who hasnt killed anyone?

Nah, better be with that guy who killed someone right? And besides, if the Joker has killed thousands, he needs reformation and love more than Psycho. Psycho has "only killed one person", he's a perfectly ok guy.