The Sensational She-Hulk Appreciation

[Ptrvc]

I've honestly never heard this and its hard to believe since literally every iteration of the character save the original TV show looks beyond human.

Plus if you changed his appearance, he'd just be a green Hulk, or Thor or Luke Cage etc. Changing Hulk into a normal buff guy is would be sacrilegious

946550-classic_hulk.jpg

So that's the classic Savage Hulk, the look he had for decades. His hands and feet are oversized, but aside from that Hulk isn't much more muscular then you might see a real world strongman reach. Now that is the far extreme of the human body, but since Hulk was all about strength, having him resemble the strongest real world humans made a lot of sense. He also tended to be somewhere between 7 and 8 feet tall, which is again, an extreme, but still within real world human parameters.

This makes it all the more impressive when he pulls of incredible, superhuman feats of strength, when his build is still recognizably human.

Sometime around the nineties you started to get this guy that's over ten feet tall and so musclebound that he shouldn't be able to bend his arms, much less fight.

We've backed off from that extreme but we still get stuff like this on occasion.

2224334-colossus_vs_hulk_2.jpg

Why is he so friggen big? He's fighting friggen Colossus and making him look like a toddler. That's getting into Giant-Man territory. It looks goofy and makes it harder for the character to interact with other humans, or for the audience to relate to, making him little more than an extension of Banner, (Hulk=Angry Banner we got for like 4 movies before they let him speak.)

Stan Lee weighed in on the issue back in the day as well. TLDR Hulk was too big in his first two movies.

Sorry to go off on a big rant, but yeah there are people arguing that Hulk's become too big in the last few decades, it's not an argument exclusive to She-Hulk.

[Killerbee911]

Sorry to go off on a big rant, but yeah there are people arguing that Hulk's become too big in the last few decades, it's not an argument exclusive to She-Hulk.

You are one few people I have ever seen to complain about this and given that Hulk hasn't been "in real world human parameters." in ages it is not a common complaint. I mean get your view now but Hulk has been presented certain way for a long time now getting bigger and stronger when he gets mad. It is relevant because that how She hulk is being used like this as well. Size isn't cared about by most because it is understood he gets bigger and stronger. Unless you are original hulk purist,Hulk being bigger and bigger doesn't bother most people

Anyway the overall point wasn't to have this argument but more point out that male characters allowed to have functional muscles and super exaggerated function muscles and also be drawn in action with zero care or thoughts about sex appeal in action. While She Hulk in mid battle is being criticized for her looks. Banner Hulk can make a million ugly faces and he won't be compared to some actor that fan finds unappealing. Because looks of the monster isn't important unless it is female.

[Sensational C]

Isn't that supposed to be Carol though ?

But I think part of She-Hulk's visual appeal is that she isn't like the typical Hulk physique (and she shouldn't have to be on any kind of permanent basis), because that's generally not the kind of character she is.

I guess I get that logic but I always thought the fun of She-Hulk was that she was this green bombshell with the personality to match who could also out arm-wrestle with the toughest male heroes of the Marvel Universe.

I'm not saying she exactly needs to be running around with a Supermodel body but I think there's a better balance to be found between her old look and trying to make her look more like the Hulk who I think (shared powers aside) she should be visually distinctive from.

Even Marvel Now/ANAD Marvel I think they were getting somewhere in that direction.

Stronger in a purely physical sense, sorry for not making that clear, which was shown in Avengers #9/699 when She-Hulk's punch to Namor caused a bigger explosion than Carol's punch.
There is an appeal there but there's also an appeal to She-Hulk's status as a large woman. Many of She-Hulk fans stated it was bigger appearance, her height, her weight that made her stand out from the rest of the superheroine majority. This statue leans into those factors more as today it is more common for super heroines to have that amazon, bombshell body type.
I do wish she kept her personality. It was a big part of what showed how comfortable Jen was in an unconventional body.

946550-classic_hulk.jpg

So that's the classic Savage Hulk, the look he had for decades. His hands and feet are oversized, but aside from that Hulk isn't much more muscular then you might see a real world strongman reach. Now that is the far extreme of the human body, but since Hulk was all about strength, having him resemble the strongest real world humans made a lot of sense. He also tended to be somewhere between 7 and 8 feet tall, which is again, an extreme, but still within real world human parameters.

This makes it all the more impressive when he pulls of incredible, superhuman feats of strength, when his build is still recognizably human.

Sometime around the nineties you started to get this guy that's over ten feet tall and so musclebound that he shouldn't be able to bend his arms, much less fight.

We've backed off from that extreme but we still get stuff like this on occasion.

2224334-colossus_vs_hulk_2.jpg

Why is he so friggen big? He's fighting friggen Colossus and making him look like a toddler. That's getting into Giant-Man territory. It looks goofy and makes it harder for the character to interact with other humans, or for the audience to relate to, making him little more than an extension of Banner, (Hulk=Angry Banner we got for like 4 movies before they let him speak.)

Stan Lee weighed in on the issue back in the day as well. TLDR Hulk was too big in his first two movies.

Sorry to go off on a big rant, but yeah there are people arguing that Hulk's become too big in the last few decades, it's not an argument exclusive to She-Hulk.

Look at Hulk's legs especially those calves and those traps. They're huge even compared to the 1960's strongman proportions.
Stongman1967.jpg
I'm sure I don't have to tell you this but for those who don't know, Hulk is a huge, bulking monster because of Bruce's father hitting him as a child. A grown man compared to a child is a towering figure and so Hulk is a giant among the average man. Hulk was born from a child's mind which rarely deals with real world dimensions.

[Ptrvc]

He doesn't get bigger when he gets angrier outside of that Ang Lee movie.

Also you said the words "functional muscle" and She-Hulk is starting to run into the same problem her cousin has for years, too much muscle. It's not as bad yet but you're starting to see it in some of these Avengers no issues.

Biceps so big you she shouldn't be able to bend her arms, weird Tiny Head Brick syndrome.

Go back and look at Avengers 9. When Jen is fighting Namor she looks fine, the anatomy is functional. She looks like a heavyweight MMA fighter. But in the next group shot what happened? She looks stretched, with huge thighs and tiny, tiny little calves. Why are her calves so tiny?

There is a point at which characters get so big and question stops being about attractiveness and starts being about anatomy.

[Ptrvc]

Stronger in a purely physical sense, sorry for not making that clear, which was shown in Avengers #9/699 when She-Hulk's punch to Namor caused a bigger explosion than Carol's punch.
There is an appeal there but there's also an appeal to She-Hulk's status as a large woman. Many of She-Hulk fans stated it was bigger appearance, her height, her weight that made her stand out from the rest of the superheroine majority. This statue leans into those factors more as today it is more common for super heroines to have that amazon, bombshell body type.
I do wish she kept her personality. It was a big part of what showed how comfortable Jen was in an unconventional body.



Look at Hulk's legs especially those calves and those traps. They're huge even compared to the 1960's strongman proportions.
Stongman1967.jpg
I'm sure I don't have to tell you this but for those who don't know, Hulk is a huge, bulking monster because of Bruce's father hitting him as a child. A grown man compared to a child is a towering figure and so Hulk is a giant among the average man. Hulk was born from a child's mind which rarely deals with real world dimensions.

I will admit the hands and feet, but that's obviously a picture of a body builder not a strongman. Arnold was definitely very strong in his prime, but he was always trying to go for aesthetics over raw strength.

Look up Mariusz Please if you want to know what a low boryfat strongman looks like

[Merrik]

it's not an argument exclusive to She-Hulk.

Please, lol.

There's a hashtag being used by a certain group who shall remain unnamed (their movement is based in bigotry and misogyny if that helps) talking about making She-Hulk hot again. Not functional. Not human size. Not that she's become too big. To make her HOT again. So grown ass men reading comic books can be attracted to a fictional green character on the page.

This is an argument absolutely exclusive to She-Hulk. And that's where the crux of this lies.

If this was a MALE character we were talking about... if it was Luke Cage, and he got a power updrage, and he became this huge, the talk about how he needs to look "normal" would be minimal at best. There would hardly be anyone folks in any threads talking about how a gamma-irradiated comic creation with the word HULK in her name should look "normal" (as defined by the male gaze lmao).

I've been reading comics for over three decades now. You are, honestly, not even trying to say you're lying or anything, the FIRST person I've ever heard talk about how Hulk got too big. She-Hulk has been like this for a couple of months and there's a hashtag on social media dedicated to how she's not hot enough anymore (technically, THIS photo... this absolutely stunning work of art actually... was only out for a couple of DAYS before there was a hashtag on social media dedicated to how she's not hot enough anymore... DAYS).

This garbage places it's roots SQUARELY in misogynistic bullshit. That's not to say EVERYONE that says anything about it is like that, of course not, but to deny it's there is to deny the sky is blue. With the exception of very very very few male characters, none are drawn with any kind of sex appeal in mind and the complaints don't come pouring in. She-Hulk is literally in the middle of a big ass fight here and grown men are crying that she's ugly or too big. So maybe you're partially right, it's not an argument exclusive to She-Hulk, it's an argument exclusive to women. The Hulk can almost stomp off the entire West Coast of the US while making horribly ugly faces and folks cheer. If She-Hulk got that powered up, people would still want her to look like she should be on the cover of Sport Illustrated Swimsuit Edition otherwise they're going to take to the internet in impotent man baby rages that a fictional HULK character doesn't do it for their man parts anymore.

Let's not dismiss or pretend like we don't know the REAL reasons behind most of the complaints in the recent days about the appearance of She-Hulk. It's disingenuous, lying or being purposely obtuse at best, it's ignorantly supporting misogynistic crap at worst.

[Ptrvc]

Cool story bro.

[Merrik]

Cool story bro.

Yup.

That tracks.

lol

[Frontier]

Please, lol.

There's a hashtag being used by a certain group who shall remain unnamed (their movement is based in bigotry and misogyny if that helps) talking about making She-Hulk hot again. Not functional. Not human size. Not that she's become too big. To make her HOT again. So grown ass men reading comic books can be attracted to a fictional green character on the page.

This is an argument absolutely exclusive to She-Hulk. And that's where the crux of this lies.

If this was a MALE character we were talking about... if it was Luke Cage, and he got a power updrage, and he became this huge, the talk about how he needs to look "normal" would be minimal at best. There would hardly be anyone folks in any threads talking about how a gamma-irradiated comic creation with the word HULK in her name should look "normal" (as defined by the male gaze lmao).

I've been reading comics for over three decades now. You are, honestly, not even trying to say you're lying or anything, the FIRST person I've ever heard talk about how Hulk got too big. She-Hulk has been like this for a couple of months and there's a hashtag on social media dedicated to how she's not hot enough anymore (technically, THIS photo... this absolutely stunning work of art actually... was only out for a couple of DAYS before there was a hashtag on social media dedicated to how she's not hot enough anymore... DAYS).

This garbage places it's roots SQUARELY in misogynistic bullshit. That's not to say EVERYONE that says anything about it is like that, of course not, but to deny it's there is to deny the sky is blue. With the exception of very very very few male characters, none are drawn with any kind of sex appeal in mind and the complaints don't come pouring in. She-Hulk is literally in the middle of a big ass fight here and grown men are crying that she's ugly or too big. So maybe you're partially right, it's not an argument exclusive to She-Hulk, it's an argument exclusive to women. The Hulk can almost stomp off the entire West Coast of the US while making horribly ugly faces and folks cheer. If She-Hulk got that powered up, people would still want her to look like she should be on the cover of Sport Illustrated Swimsuit Edition otherwise they're going to take to the internet in impotent man baby rages that a fictional HULK character doesn't do it for their man parts anymore.

Let's not dismiss or pretend like we don't know the REAL reasons behind most of the complaints in the recent days about the appearance of She-Hulk. It's disingenuous, lying or being purposely obtuse at best, it's ignorantly supporting misogynistic crap at worst.

I think if Luke Cage got the kind of upgrade and visual look that She-Hulk currently has there would probably be a lot of pushback against it, especially from fans and people who enjoy him for being a strong, attractive, black male.

But I personally wouldn't want She-Hulk to be running around like The Hulk because, gamma-powers and familial connection aside, I view them as two very different characters with two very different takes on what it means to be a Hulk.

[Snoop Dogg]

Even if you don't like the change in her aesthetic via her build (which isn't that big a deal design-wise, her defining visual traits and color pallete are all back, her silhouette still pops, etc.) and the on and off abandonment of her ridiculous codename, isn't it an easy trade off in exchange for an actual long-term, serious story about the character? Her comedy books are great, yes, but after so many years, isn't it refreshing to have her deal with a real internal conflict with an emotional core? Personally, if Jen was just gonna be what she usually is on teams, when Jason can't control where over half of his Avengers roster are going as characters, I'd rather have her off the book for someone else, and I'm one of her fans. But I don't like how stagnant she can be compared to her peers.

[Frontier]

Even if you don't like the change in her aesthetic via her build (which isn't that big a deal design-wise, her defining visual traits and color pallete are all back, her silhouette still pops, etc.) and the on and off abandonment of her ridiculous codename, isn't it an easy trade off in exchange for an actual long-term, serious story about the character? Her comedy books are great, yes, but after so many years, isn't it refreshing to have her deal with a real internal conflict with an emotional core? Personally, if Jen was just gonna be what she usually is on teams, when Jason can't control where over half of his Avengers roster are going as characters, I'd rather have her off the book for someone else, and I'm one of her fans. But I don't like how stagnant she can be compared to her peers.

I don't know if I'd say that's what Aaron is going for vs., say, Tamaki and her handling of it.

Heck, even as someone who was critical of the premise of Tamaki's Hulk I'd say visually it worked better then than now with having Jen look more normal but then tacking on a physique more akin to her cousin's.

[Killerbee911]

I think if Luke Cage got the kind of upgrade and visual look that She-Hulk currently has there would probably be a lot of pushback against it, especially from fans and people who enjoy him for being a strong, attractive, black male.

Not really If for story reasons "They said Luke Cage is getting stronger infact as strong as the Hulk" and he is bigger. They would be of course push back (someone complains about something nowadays) but Cage moving from his normal size to a bigger size they wouldn't much of complaints. Something say like this doesn't get complaints

Capture.jpg

Capture2.jpg

You can move Cage from normal size to bodybuilder and people will barely bat an eye.That is not true for She hulk.

[Killerbee911]

Now the change from this



to this


This Is what getting complaints, Her at Banner Hulk size we all know it isn't going to last.That is the nature of comic books. It is more drawing her as monster and not sexy chick all the time is the root complaint.

[Frontier]

Not really If for story reasons "They said Luke Cage is getting stronger infact as strong as the Hulk" and he is bigger. They would be of course push back (someone complains about something nowadays) but Cage moving from his normal size to a bigger size they wouldn't much of complaints. Something say like this doesn't get complaints

Capture.jpg

Capture2.jpg

You can move Cage from normal size to bodybuilder and people will barely bat an eye.That is not true for She hulk.

I don't think the comparison is apt because both bodies are fairly standard by comic book hero bodies and the bottom one is nowhere near a Hulk-physique that makes Luke look dramatically different.

It would be like comparing Dan Slott's She-Hulk to her depiction pre-Civil War II, which I think is a better balance then the current design.

[InformationGeek]

Now the change from this



to this


This Is what getting complaints, Her at Banner Hulk size we all know it isn't going to last.That is the nature of comic books. It is more drawing her as monster and not sexy chick all the time is the root complaint.

I feel like there should be a happy middle between those two.... like this!




Man, Civil War 2 was really bad but beautifully drawn. What a freakin' waste.