The Sensational She-Hulk Appreciation

[Shadowcat]

I’m still hesitant on Aaron’s take, because it’s onlt been one storyline. I cut my teeth on Chris Claremont books, so I’m willing to give it a couple more issues before I state my dissatisfaction with it or not. Although there could have been a bit more of meat on this story, it wasn’t bad. It was big and bombastic, which is what I want from a story involving the Celestials, but it wasn’t perfect.

[Gamma Irradiated Being]

You mention Claremont, a writer who knows how to build subplots and good dramatic moments that do not feel forced. I'm giving Aaron a chance to impress with Jennifer's story. Maybe he'll channel some of Claremont's strong points.

[beetee]

From iO9:

Untitled Marvel Female Heroes Series

Details are scarce but Deadline reports ABC has ordered a new hourlong drama focusing on Marvel’s roster of female heroes. Wonder Woman’s Allan Heinberg has been hired to write the pilot episode of the currently untitled series.


.... One can hope....

[Ravin' Ray]

From what I've read about She-Hulk's licensing rights Marvel can use her in a team-up without asking Universal, so she's at least a candidate for inclusion.

[Cmbmool]

While it is understandable of Jen being upset at Bruce returning to life: One would think that given her own knowledge of Bruce and the Hulk that he would be a bit that desperate and considered the situation that he would consider something like this to end himself and save humanity from the Hulk's rage ?

Plus would the same thing be considered for herself given her current condition ?

[Merrik]

Thumbs Up.

Thank you, it's good to know that sometimes my rambling connects

[Merrik]

You're absolutely right! Jennifer being a gamma-affected person really has not been explored. Whether it's necessary or not is not really the issue. I think what needs to be defined is the rules to being gamma infected. Jennifer has had a few different incarnations over the years, what should be touched on is why she's like she is at the moment within some guidelines.

I mean, it technically has been explored quite a bit. Dan Slott especially did quite a bit of digging into what the effects of being a gamma-affected person had on her. The dual personalities despite being the same person in control, even at one point being called out on the stand in court as being more like a drunk person than anything else. Her sexual freedom. Her lighthearted approach to life. Even her brilliance as a lawyer and how that carried over and when needed she could be the "Jen Walters" that she always was.

But THIS incarnation definitely hasn't been explored. Now that we know there was a reason for her actions and behavior (kind of putting to rest all the complaints of being a Hulk carbon copy as that's NOT the issue at all) hopefully how it affects her will be dug into a bit more. It already started in this issue, with her being stoked about her power boost and the role she could play for the team.

I'm curious though, what guidelines would you like to see specifically? What would be your best case scenario for guidelines for gamma infected persons in the Marvel Universe?

I actually kind of like a bit of uncertainty tbh. It gives a bit more room to play. And that way, when say, Jen gets a boost from a Celestial so she can beat the hell out of the Dark Celestials, it plays well instead of having to re-define the rules, ya know?

[Merrik]

Can I just say, this a wonderfully written post! I agree with a lot you said. Gotta admit, there have been times I just wanna stay away from the comic discussions on things like forums and Twitter. Negativity always seems to be louder then positivity, which is a shame.

(Random note, I prefer the Savage She-Hulk books over Sensational... )

Aw thanks! That's super kind of you.

Honestly, and I don't mean this as a slam on anyone (there are actually a couple of folks I muted/blocked or whatever in this thread last time I was hanging around wanting to discuss the character because they were SO negative and it was just the same negativity repeated over and over and over and over without any actual constructive criticisms mixed in) but I find most message boards to have more negative than positive. And I'm not saying I want to be in an echo-chamber, that's silly, valid criticisms are awesome, but this is the internet. It doesn't happen. Not in my experience anyway. The good is drowned out by the overly vocal bad (go back enough pages in this topic and you have people going on and on about how Marvel was doing irreparable damage to She-Hulk because they had her in a perfectly plausible and valid story line dealing with her depression following the events of Civil War II that made perfect sense and if they didn't address it, it would've been a cop out) and I can't help but let it affect, if nothing else my mood lol, so I tend to stay away, or at least not engage.


Oh, and btw, Savage over Sensational ANY DAY.

Seriously, I re-read 'em all.

Savage She-Hulk
Sensational She-Hulk
She-Hulk in Ceremony
Byrne's Graphic Novel
She-Hulk Vol. 1
She-Hulk Vol. 2
She-Hulk Vol. 3
Cosmic Collision
She-Hulk Sensational
Thing & She-Hulk
Savage She-Hulk Vol. 2
Fall of the Hulks: Savage She-Hulks
She-Hulks
Hulk into She-Hulk Vol. 4 or a continuation of Vol. 1 (whatever lol).

I would actually put Sensational She-Hulk near the bottom of the pile. Maybe one day I'll rank 'em all, but yeah. I was never REALLY a huge fan of it, even back in the day as I was reading it as it was coming out (I've always felt like Byrne, instead of having a jokey series ended up turning the character herself into a joke) but in the light of 2018? It's even less enthralling for me. Savage She-Hulk all the way!! Don't get me wrong, Savage She-Hulk has some of the WORST issues of Jen's entire existence (when the focus of an entire story is a bad singer that refuses to stop eating sugar even though she's diabetic... eesh...) but there was some awesome stuff in it too. It's very much more of a series that I would actually compare to something like Man-Thing's first series. Where just batsh*t what the hell where did that come from stuff just happens, but with this unifying theme through-out. The guest appearances from Man-Thing, Richard Rory, Professor Slaughter, Morbius, Man-Wolf, Hellcat etc. were awesome. I loved the run of villains that for a moment seemed to be trying to build a rogue's gallery for Jen until the series was cancelled and they all ended up being a single person (at least that was my take on it, I think if the series had continued all those villains would've stayed separated). The "where the hell did he come from" villain of Gemini. That kind of thing. The relationship between Jen and her dad which all but fizzled out afterwards (to the point that in a later series the writer mistakenly says that it was her father that was murdered by Trask). I loved the romantic triangle between Jen and Zapper and Rory. I even liked Zapper's parents! Buck was an amazing foil for Jennifer, a super villain of her own if you will. I really enjoy it.

I know even like, PAD wrote in his opening after taking over She-Hulk that it wasn't great, it was "just there" or something to that effect, but if you go back and really sit down with it and read all 25 issues, it works. On SOME LEVEL, it works.

So yeah, Savage She-Hulk baby!!! (I will say, Gerber on She-Hulk is VASTLY underrated... I think the work he did on Sensational She-Hulk is light years ahead of anything Byrne did with the series for sure... I would've loved to have seen Sensational She-Hulk as a Gerber idea instead of a Byrne idea).

[Ravin' Ray]

I am so relieved and glad about the revelation in Avengers that Jen now has her "savage" version on call on if need be, and that "normal" She-Hulk is still pretty much the default mode she'll be in.

[Merrik]

I must admit, I caught up on reading the Avengers and I like the story. Aaron is somewhat re-imagining the history of the MU and the origins and seeds that lead to the sources that ignite a character's powers... including radiation thus tying into She-Hulk. The new revelations about how Jen's power works and her new potential were interesting. This latest issue gave her more substance and seems to be headed in a good direction. Her relationship with Thor is at least being built up, and not just thrown out there.

Me too. I re-read the entire run so far and it plays really nicely together. Big super-hero brawl with big universe ending stakes to start it off and now a little bit of explanation. Most writers who have ever used Jen on The Avengers before have simply had her there on the team. She's AWESOME while she's there, but she's always kind of just been there. With the exception of a few times, rarely has any kind of story line in The Avengers books revolved around her. Most writers have her on as the good team player and the muscle. We did get a few glimpses of She-Hulk driven stories such as Search for She-Hulk following the Red Zone. Or how she played a large part in the lead up to the Avengers disbanding for a moment after being betrayed by Dr. Druid... But we don't get a lot. I honestly can't think of another one. There's never really any true character development with She-Hulk while she's on the Avengers. I mean, I can think of specific issues that center on almost every other character multiple times or how they were driving forces in numerous Avengers stories, and despite being one of the best Avengers, I can't think of any for Jen at the moment. And Aaron AT LEAST seems invested in the character!!! She's one of the core players of his book, you know? She's not the member that was rotated in for a single story arc to be the humor and the muscle (like in Busiek's run... although that is my favorite run of Avengers ever). She's core to the team. He put her there for a reason. He's going to explore the character. I'm honestly thankful.

If it doesn't work? It doesn't work. If it does and the character gets some good airtime from it? Awesome!!

And the relationship with Thor... I can't say it enough. I'm there. Maybe it's MY fanfic haha! Whatever? I love that he's going to explore it! To me, they've been a perfect match since she first calmed down a bit after joining The Avengers.

[Merrik]

I am so relieved and glad about the revelation in Avengers that Jen now has her "savage" version on call on if need be, and that "normal" She-Hulk is still pretty much the default mode she'll be in.

It didn't REALLY specify that though, did it?

They said since the encounter with the Celestials her body is now storing more gamma energy than ever before and that she's sometimes able to release it in explosive ways, even beyond what the Hulk can generate. It was noted that this is why she had less access to her full mental capabilities but that the smart mouth lawyer was still in control (so even if she can't vocalize it, she's NOT just a Hulk carbon copy, she's actually being guided by the intelligent Jen inside and is still the character we've seen for the last few decades but she just can't form the words).

And that was kind of it. She refused to be sidelined until it was more explored because she said she worked hard to regain control of herself in the last couple of months, but that doesn't indicate that she can "control" which version of She-Hulk she'll be. I read that more as "I worked hard to overcome the crap that I was dealing with" and in my thoughts was a direct reference to her previous series, which everyone was complaining Aaron had forgotten or disregarded when in fact he didn't at all. With the amount of Gamma energy stored inside her, her "default" for the next little bit might be the speech impaired, yet still smart lawyer driven Jen, She-Hulk that we saw. And she even says that the new powers are a blessing and the world is going to get the biggest and baddest damn Hulk the world has ever seen.

That kind of said to me, expect the speech impaired, yet still technically being driven by the smart witty humorous She-Hulk we know (even if she can't vocalize it), for the next little bit. And if her appearance in Immortal Hulk is anything to go by, I think that's what we're going to get until her storyline is played out here. BUT, at least Aaron is doing a story line with her! That in my opinion, is awesome!

[Hypestyle]

so is it implied that Jen can cause energy explosions with her fists? I'm not clear on what exactly this new "revelation" means or the "greater" strength than Banner-Hulk.

[Ravin' Ray]

Points taken Merrik. I do find the reference to being a bomb a callback to Geoff John's Avengers run when Jack of Hearts, himself often called a bomb, unintentionally gave Jen a dose of extra gamma causing her to hulk-out in savage mode. Aaron's run thus far is just the latest where Jen bulks up and seemingly regresses intellectually, starting with Gerber, Johns, and then Bendis. Tamaki's Hulk didn't really regress, but had different issues of her own.

And personally, that panel where her eyes (as Jen) crackle with gamma? I love it!

[Digifiend]

I am so relieved and glad about the revelation in Avengers that Jen now has her "savage" version on call on if need be, and that "normal" She-Hulk is still pretty much the default mode she'll be in.

Yeah, she wasn't green, but she was in her costume, for the first time since Civil War II.

Over in Immortal Hulk, the Avengers, Jen included, challenged Banner prompting an "et tu, Jen?" comment from Bruce. She really did well to not end up Hulking out into her Savage Hulk form, because she's rightly pissed off with him for having Hawkeye kill him and then hiding when he came back. Next issue should be interesting... I wonder, is that set before or after Avengers #8?

[GodThor]

so is it implied that Jen can cause energy explosions with her fists? I'm not clear on what exactly this new "revelation" means or the "greater" strength than Banner-Hulk.

I don't think she is stronger than the hulk.