The Sad Death of the Hobgoblin

[BlitheringToot]

I don't know who Anderson Cooper is, but I mean, if Kal-El can play a goofy and meek Clark Kent, why can't Roderick Kingsley hide his ruthless nature?

This is Anderson Cooper: anderson.jpg

The resemblance is startling, yes?

That's a fair point, by the way, but another issue is that Kingsley was always portrayed as fairly scrawny in his pre-"Hobgoblin Lives" appearances. But the guy we see going into the Goblin formula tank is already pretty built (and remember, Hobgoblin was able to effectively frame Flash Thompson because they were fairly similar in build). Granted, it could be argued that Daniel was scrawny while Roddy was ripped ... but that wouldn't work if they were able to pass for one another so easily. Ned, on the other hand, while hardly muscle-bound, was a bit closer to Flash's size, especially under Ron Frenz's pencils, where he was shown to glare down at Peter.

Bottom line: I still think Ned was the real Hobgoblin, and I've got a lengthy, convoluted theory as to how he faked his own death and Winkler'd Roddy.

[David Walton]

Hobgoblin Lives is kind of like finding out your SAT scores got switched and you were supposed to go to a better college, fifteen years after the fact.

On the one hand, you're like, man, I got robbed.

But then you start to think about it, and you met your wife in college, and you love her, the kids, your job and the way everything turned out.

In summation, Ned Leeds made for a more interesting Hobgoblin than Roderick "Who?" Kingsley.

The problem was with the way Leeds went out, not the revelation itself. He had a much deeper, more compelling connection with Peter.

[BlitheringToot]

Hobgoblin Lives is kind of like finding out your SAT scores got switched and you were supposed to go to a better college, fifteen years after the fact.

On the one hand, you're like, man, I got robbed.

But then you start to think about it, and you met your wife in college, and you love her, the kids, your job and the way everything turned out.

In summation, Ned Leeds made for a more interesting Hobgoblin than Roderick "Who?" Kingsley.

Amen! Exactly! He was a character who actually had a personal stake in Peter's life (through Betty), and that made him almost sympathetic (once I found out he was Ned, I actually kinda rooted for the guy when I went back and reread the old stories). There's nothing redeeming or likable about Roddy, who's just another greedy, arrogant douchebag (unless you count the rather clever "AXIS" mini, in which those character traits actually make him likable). Sure, that's fine for most comic book villains, but once you go years thinking of a character a certain way, having the rug yanked out from under everything sucks.

[Lasse]

I have no problem with it. I like it when the villains are relatable, like so often in Spidey comics, but not everyone has to be that either. It's not as if I thought Ned being the Hobgoblin was dumb at the time (although Ned DID die like a chump), but since Hobgoblin Lives was written by Roger Stern as well, I accept it.

[BlitheringToot]

Eh, for me I'll always just find Ned Leeds' descent into madness/past the point of no return more interesting than Roddy just being Roddy. XD

Of course, these being comics and all, I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years Peter David "reveals" the true Hobgoblin was the Foreigner all along (who did have a thing for appropriating identities).

[Spidey5640]

Hobgoblin Lives is kind of like finding out your SAT scores got switched and you were supposed to go to a better college, fifteen years after the fact.

On the one hand, you're like, man, I got robbed.

But then you start to think about it, and you met your wife in college, and you love her, the kids, your job and the way everything turned out.

In summation, Ned Leeds made for a more interesting Hobgoblin than Roderick "Who?" Kingsley.

The problem was with the way Leeds went out, not the revelation itself. He had a much deeper, more compelling connection with Peter.

Agree. Well said. I love Roger Stern but making Hobgoblin Kingsley was not his shining moment and I think sent Hobgoblin down a path that has resulted in him being a third rate villain, which I really hate because that first story arc beginning in 238 is absolutely awesome.

[David Walton]

Amen! Exactly! He was a character who actually had a personal stake in Peter's life (through Betty), and that made him almost sympathetic (once I found out he was Ned, I actually kinda rooted for the guy when I went back and reread the old stories). There's nothing redeeming or likable about Roddy, who's just another greedy, arrogant douchebag (unless you count the rather clever "AXIS" mini, in which those character traits actually make him likable). Sure, that's fine for most comic book villains, but once you go years thinking of a character a certain way, having the rug yanked out from under everything sucks.

I always assumed Ned Leeds was the Hobgoblin. I'll be honest, when Stern brought Roderick back, I didn't even remember who he was. When you factor in that DeFalco was leaning toward Richard Fisk, then I have to say that Stern went with the least interesting option. Which is, of course, a rare mistake on his part.

[Lasse]

Still, this way we got to have the original Hobgoblin still alive instead of the second rate Jason Macendale!

[BlitheringToot]

Hobgoblin was an A-list Spidey villain in the '80s, and B-list at worst in the early '90s, at least until Macendale got cyberized (ugh ... although the rest of his costume looked great). But after "Hobgoblin Lives!" and "Goblins at the Gate" ... he vanished. I dunno, it just irked me that Stern did this big reveal only to put his toys back in the box afterward. "Hey, here's a big twist to get people talking about the Hobgoblin again! Aaaaand ... now he's retired."

[BlitheringToot]

Still, this way we got to have the original Hobgoblin still alive instead of the second rate Jason Macendale!

Jason was cool at first ... I liked him as a creepier version of the character--not satisfied with merely having his rival killed, he started dressing like him. I liked his demonic transformation, and I enjoyed having both him and Demogoblin around in the '90s (Goblins! Goblins everywhere!). I enjoyed the storyline where he tried to con Vladimir Kravinov into giving him his father's formula (poor Vlad ... gone too soon). But Cyber-Gobby was a step too far into stupidity.

[David Walton]

Still, this way we got to have the original Hobgoblin still alive instead of the second rate Jason Macendale!

Sure, but this IS comics, so we could just as easily have gotten Ned back through some simple death-fakery feat. That said, I like what Slott did with Kingsley.

I didn't hate Macendale. The Hobgoblin was never going to be a mysterious badass forever, regardless of whether he died or not.

[Lasse]

I didn't hate Macendale either, but I don't think he was as good as the original. Spidey's first fight with Macendale was awesome, but I was not a fan of the Demogoblin.

[BlitheringToot]

I didn't hate Macendale either, but I don't think he was as good as the original. Spidey's first fight with Macendale was awesome, but I was not a fan of the Demogoblin.

The "Maximum Carnage" video game had a lot to do with me liking Demo, haha.

[Lasse]

The "Maximum Carnage" video game had a lot to do with me liking Demo, haha.

Ah. I never played that game, and I was never a fan of that 90's thang.

[BlitheringToot]

Ah. I never played that game, and I was never a fan of that 90's thang.

Understandable ... the '90s were generally a dark time. But (some of) the comics, (some of) the games and even (some of) the music was good.