Is Norman Osborn actually crazy?

[Ragdoll]

So we all know Norman Osborn is crazy. But is there any chance that the Green Goblin is actually a completely separate entity that exists in another dimension who can only operate in our world via Norman Osborn? Maybe like demonic possession? Or it could be a variety of different things. But is there any chance that Norman is an innocent bystander who has been slowly driven mad his whole life by a demon who either took a liking to him or is somehow bound to him?
Maybe it is just me, but I have always felt bad for the ol' coot. Other villains have evil, jerkish motivations and are easier to hate. With Norman, he is so out there that it is hard to fully blame him. If it turned out the Green Goblin was a separate entity, maybe they could drive it out and it could take over some other shmucks body, and give Normie a vacation from all the crazy.

[Captain Wessex]

nah, just he's absolutely nucking futs

[William300]

Osborn has always been shown to be evil with or without the Goblin persona. And theres been no evidence of the Goblin being a different entity just controlling his body. Osborn and the Goblin are one and the same, the serum just gave him a way to vent his evil ways and gave it an insane edge.

[Tuck]

Osborn has always been shown to be evil with or without the Goblin persona.

Not prior to The Clone Saga. It was a Jekyll and Hyde thing. Norman didn't even know he was the Goblin. They've retconned him to have always been a bad guy over time though.

In any case, the goblin serum is out of his blood now. He made a comment about how Spider-Man has never faced him with his full faculties before.

[William300]

Not prior to The Clone Saga. It was a Jekyll and Hyde thing. Norman didn't even know he was the Goblin. They've retconned him to have always been a bad guy over time though.

In any case, the goblin serum is out of his blood now. He made a comment about how Spider-Man has never faced him with his full faculties before.

Yea, the retcon made it to where Osborn was always evil in the background. I prefer it that way, Osborn shouldn't be sympathetic, but Harry should be.

[Celgress]

I've always seen Norman Osborn as a type of tragic figure honestly. A man whose fear of failing both himself and those around him, such as his son and workforce, caused him to take terrible risks which led him down the slippery slope to damnation. At least before the retcon made him a far less sympathetic character.

[William300]

I've always seen Norman Osborn as a type of tragic figure honestly. A man whose fear of failing both himself and those around him, such as his son and workforce, caused him to take terrible risks which led him down the slippery slope to damnation. At least before the retcon made him a far less sympathetic character.

As I said, I prefer Osborn as non-sypathetic. I prefer it where Osborn is a evil corrupt man even before the serum. Harry should be the tragic one, not Norman.

[SuperiorIronman]

Before retcon after retcon it was a total Jekyl and Hyde thing. Osborn may have not been the greatest father or the most sincere and honest business man but he did it all to be a success and provide for him and his son. The makings of the Goblin had already been present but Osborn was still a decent man before Harry tampered with the serum and Osborn became the Goblin.

Nowadays following the death of Gwen Stacy, having sex with her, proto goblin, apparently somehow masterminding the clone saga, and possibly killing a baby, Osborn is vile. He is no longer sympathetic. Even after Gwen Stacy you could argue he wasn't in control of his actions. Osborn however is crazy now. He couldn't think straight and still can't. He is messed up after all of these retcons you simply can't vouch for anything good in him anymore.

[Celgress]

Before retcon after retcon it was a total Jekyl and Hyde thing. Osborn may have not been the greatest father or the most sincere and honest business man but he did it all to be a success and provide for him and his son. The makings of the Goblin had already been present but Osborn was still a decent man before Harry tampered with the serum and Osborn became the Goblin.

Nowadays following the death of Gwen Stacy, having sex with her, proto goblin, apparently somehow masterminding the clone saga, and possibly killing a baby, Osborn is vile. He is no longer sympathetic. Even after Gwen Stacy you could argue he wasn't in control of his actions. Osborn however is crazy now. He couldn't think straight and still can't. He is messed up after all of these retcons you simply can't vouch for anything good in him anymore.

Oh I agree he has gone so far down the rabbit hole of evil he is now completely unredeemable, or as close to it as any comic villain. I still however contend Norman Osborn's story represents the ultimate road to Hell is paved with good intentions catch twenty-two. Initially at least he didn't set out to become the vile villain he ended up slowly morphing into, but rather was driven by his fear of failing those who counted on him most. His noble motives forced him unintentionally down a dark path which destroyed those he sought to protect, including himself mentally. It is a tragic tale.

[Confuzzled]

Oh I agree he has gone so far down the rabbit hole of evil he is now completely unredeemable, or as close to it as any comic villain. I still however contend Norman Osborn's story represents the ultimate road to Hell is paved with good intentions catch twenty-two. Initially at least he didn't set out to become the vile villain he ended up slowly morphing into, but rather was driven by his fear of failing those who counted on him most. His noble motives forced him unintentionally down a dark path which destroyed those he sought to protect, including himself mentally. It is a tragic tale.

He cannot help himself because he is incapable of putting anything before his delusional ego and pride. Makes him an interestingly flawed villain, a welcome change to the now common trope of the super efficient likes of Doom, Luthor, Joker and even though I adore him, Kingsley.

Having said that, Norman and Roderick provide fascinating foils to each other. More Osborn/Kingsley stories please.

[BlitheringToot]

The moment Norman said he wasn't crazy anymore at the end of "Superior" was the moment I realized he was definitely still crazy.

But for real, the difference between the Green Goblin and the Joker is Gobby's actually, certifiably crazy, whereas the Joker is sadistic, but not necessarily crazy.

Crazy does NOT necessarily equal less dangerous, of course.

[Pav]

Osborn isn't only crazy; he's also a morally corrupt person.

Those two things aren't mutually inclusive.

So not only is he selfish, egotistical, greedy, etc. - but he's also got delusions of grandeur and a sociopathic lack of empathy, among other things.

Although, what does it mean to be "crazy" anyway? Just that your perception of reality is different than the majority of those around you. Maybe THEY'RE crazy en masse.

-Pav, who watched 12 Monkeys yesterday...

[JBatmanFan05]

Oh I agree he has gone so far down the rabbit hole of evil he is now completely unredeemable, or as close to it as any comic villain. I still however contend Norman Osborn's story represents the ultimate road to Hell is paved with good intentions catch twenty-two. Initially at least he didn't set out to become the vile villain he ended up slowly morphing into, but rather was driven by his fear of failing those who counted on him most. His noble motives forced him unintentionally down a dark path which destroyed those he sought to protect, including himself mentally. It is a tragic tale.

What's sorta cool about Norman is that he can be viewed in his early Goblin life as somewhat sympathetic and also a totally unsympathetic one at some point.


Norman is more verifiably medically "crazy" than Joker (who is more mysterious and hard to pin down on that), but it's hard to tell when Norman might meet or not meet the legal qualifications for insanity ("if at the time of such conduct as a result of mental disease or defect he lacks substantial capacity either to appreciate the criminality of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law").

[eSoldier]

Yes - he is most definitely insane. Norman is a psychiatrist dream...or nightmare depending on how you look at it.

And that is why we like him

[BlitheringToot]

I think Warren Ellis' "Thunderbolts" and the subsequent "Siege" cemented Osborn as craaaaazy. As soon as Moonstone started switching out his meds he started to crack (not that the meds did anything to curb his supreme doucheyness, of course).