Betty Kane / Bette Kane Appreciation 2018

[Caivu]

Time left in its run. #11 sold 17,183 from Diamond and the drops haven't shown any sign of slowing down.

They actually have, with the very issue you're talking about. The drop from #10 to #11 was "only" 563. From #9 to #10, it was 1,230. It of course remains to be seen if this will remain consistent, but that's significant.

[Assam]

They actually have, with the very issue you're talking about. The drop from #10 to #11 was "only" 563. From #9 to #10, it was 1,230. It of course remains to be seen if this will remain consistent, but that's significant.

No, the drop from #9 to #10 was what was irregular. A LOT of DC's books faced larger than normal drops in December. #11 was it returning to its normal pace.

[Oberon]

If you don't know, I only read Batwoman and Detective, from DC. When New 52 started I read Nightwing, Batgirl, Batwoman, Batwing, possibly a little Red Hood.

No Batman specific titles; haven't really 'felt' it in years. (non DC reader between mid/late '80s and 2011 or so)

So, to me, much of the drama over Tec stuff doesn't resonate with me. I'm also confused over some continuity stuff. Dick and Bette more / semi contemporary in the 80s part of '90s.

Then this whole future Titans story from early 2000s or so puts 'Tim' with Bette and I'm not sure if Steph even existed then.

I am an older reader, darnit, and I like the whole canon but wish it made more sense.

Batman should actually be closer to mid '40s.

Batwoman and Bette should be more like a 2nd cousin, or at least cousins once or twice removed.

stuff like that.

I guess, in a way, I would prefer Batwoman and her cast to be not as involved with the Batfamily. Like her first series.

[Caivu]

No, the drop from #9 to #10 was what was irregular.

No, it's not.

8 to 9 was -1388.
7 to 8 was -1051.
Etc.

It has had only one other three-digit drop so far, from 6 to 7, and that was still almost 1000. This is significantly lower.

[Assam]

No, it's not.

8 to 9 was -1388.
7 to 8 was -1051.
Etc.

It has had only one other three-digit drop so far, from 6 to 7, and that was still almost 1000.

Fair enough. I was remembering incorrectly.

[Bat-Meal]

I hope we get some confirmation on Bette's parentage at some point. Is she first cousins with Kate, or a second or third cousin. And if she's confirmed as a first cousin to Kate and Bruce then the already iffy thing about Bruce's mother issues really doesn't work. I don't think it works anyway, as someone else pointed out the closest living relative besides Bruce to Martha is Jacob, not Kate. And Beth should count as much as Kate, and if Bette is first cousins then she's equal for that with Kate and Beth.

I feel like Bette is being pushed aside so Kate can be more established as the cousin of Batman. The flip-side of that is it makes Bruce the cousin of Kate, hence Bette being mostly ignored.

Kate is being heavily pushed into the BatFamily, even if the current arc looks like she's being pushed out I suspect it's actually to establish status quo in the overall family and show where she stands, hence the arc shows unlike the younger members she has a sibling-like relationship with Bruce, and siblings fight from time to time. All the while, Bette is left-out of the faux training program, of the trainee vigilantes Bruce intends to mentor one-on-one at some point. There's no mention of Bette, who hasn't completed her training, yes she's at West Point, but even so Batman doesn't seem interested as far as has been shown so far.

[Oberon]

Well, I realize I have to accept that both Kate and Bette are cousins to Bruce; they're all first cousins to each other until some twist or new tale reveals something else...

It is a sore point with me that in nearly 60 years of publication history we don't know more about Bette's parentage.

But some story clues have revealed that Kane cousins in more recent times knew each other, but not Bruce so much, perhaps since the childhood deaths. Caviu or someone may better remember some stories that might suggest otherwise.

In Elegy and around that time, Bette was played as looking up to her older cousin. Most likely Bette never had sibs and Kate was a pseudo sister, at least when they were younger, and most lily before Kate was in the service.

Bruce was never revealed as a cousin in continuity until much more recently though there is that on Batwoman annual (that seems unlikely to me!) showing younger versions of the cousins at Wayne Manor. Alfred chatting with or about Bette, etc.

So maybe Bruce just doesn't "feel" it, the cousin thing and doesn't really have strong feelings or not till recently.

[Man-Thing]

Well, I realize I have to accept that both Kate and Bette are cousins to Bruce; they're all first cousins to each other until some twist or new tale reveals something else...

It is a sore point with me that in nearly 60 years of publication history we don't know more about Bette's parentage.

But some story clues have revealed that Kane cousins in more recent times knew each other, but not Bruce so much, perhaps since the childhood deaths. Caviu or someone may better remember some stories that might suggest otherwise.

In Elegy and around that time, Bette was played as looking up to her older cousin. Most likely Bette never had sibs and Kate was a pseudo sister, at least when they were younger, and most lily before Kate was in the service.

Bruce was never revealed as a cousin in continuity until much more recently though there is that on Batwoman annual (that seems unlikely to me!) showing younger versions of the cousins at Wayne Manor. Alfred chatting with or about Bette, etc.

So maybe Bruce just doesn't "feel" it, the cousin thing and doesn't really have strong feelings or not till recently.

I still like my idea from many moons back: http://community.comicbookresources....tz#post2783193

baiscally: Bette is the daughter of the late Nathan Kane. Playing into her sibling rivalry angle, Nathan Kane was originally married to Kathy's sister Elisabeth, with whom he had Bette, before Kathy came into the picture and stole his heart, which would make her legitimately Bette's aunt, as well as her step-mother. I could totally see Frau Netz living vicariously through her daughter, pushing her to go in to sports and pageants and such, before pushing her out of the nest when it came time to ramp up the stuff with Spyral in an effort to keep her away from her grandfather Otto.

[Oberon]

I'm all for giving Bette some other kind of weird backstory (sorry Miller!)

There just seems to be NO reason NOT to. She's too unknown of an element for someone to not have a look and try at that.

Who are her 'seeming' parents and what were their 'ships like with other Kanes or Waynes?

Why exactly did Bette come to Gotham all those years ago to hang out with Aunt Kathy and discover her secret and more?

The whole idea of the missing "connective tissue" between being a Bat-girl and then becoming a Flamebird, really, really REALLY demands a new definitive story.

oh well, back to waiting!

[millernumber1]

I'm all for giving Bette some other kind of weird backstory (sorry Miller!)

There just seems to be NO reason NOT to. She's too unknown of an element for someone to not have a look and try at that.

Who are her 'seeming' parents and what were their 'ships like with other Kanes or Waynes?

Why exactly did Bette come to Gotham all those years ago to hang out with Aunt Kathy and discover her secret and more?

The whole idea of the missing "connective tissue" between being a Bat-girl and then becoming a Flamebird, really, really REALLY demands a new definitive story.

oh well, back to waiting!

I'd love to see more Bette. I'd be sort of okay with a weird backstory - but I'd want it to be a good story, not just weird for the sake of weird, like the way Morrison did with Kathy Kane.

[Oberon]

I actually like how Morrrison put some flesh on the bare story of the first Batwoman. Batman's universe is mostly populated by people with secrets, and that one is pretty extreme with its Nazi origins and slant.

That presents one problem for comics; the sliding or not so much 'time-line'.

So anything that ties Bette's story, origin even more to "old" Aunt Kathy should be avoided or streamlined.

Bat-girl's continuity or lack thereof, is yet another symptom of the overall problem with Batman's time-line which is having a

definitive place or 'stop' for most or all things.

But DC could do a turnabout without, that is just start fresh and ignore most things before New 52.

So then Bette loses (she lost it already in Batwoman volume 1) the annoying flirtation/background with Dick.

Her backstory with Titans and nearly anything Kathy Kane is reduced or just not referred to, much/at all.

I don't favor that necessarily, but it might be better in Bette's case to rebuild her with the last 7 or 8 years in mind.
Keep the Elegy and Cutter stuff. But this implies her previous career. Kate had no idea she was FB or whatever, at the end of Cutter, right?

Her "time" with Titans can be said to be very brief; she sorta knew Gar from the West Coast and he inspired her to want to be a hero.

[Man-Thing]

I mean, Kate the younger already has that issue in that Don't Ask Don't Tell isn't a thing anymore, and hasn't been since before her first solo series began. It's still super important to her backstory though, so there's not really a way to write it out. Also IIRC the Grayson series kind of handwaved the nazi ties and focused more on the Spyral stuff so I don't think that's much of an issue in the here and now.

[Oberon]

I guess the big big problem with all this is as readers, we age, grow up, grow more mature (maybe!) but our heroes have stayed relatively the same age. They never really grow old, only in "future" or time-travel type stories.

It is ridiculous to think that 4 Robins have existed in maybe 10 to 15 years, but that is how it presents.

In a way, Bette, being dumped from her original Bat-girl status won't suffer that, in the way that several Batgirls may or have.

for now Kate's backstory with Don't ask/tell will work. But maybe not if we still publish BW stories in 10 or 15 years.

[millernumber1]

I actually like how Morrrison put some flesh on the bare story of the first Batwoman. Batman's universe is mostly populated by people with secrets, and that one is pretty extreme with its Nazi origins and slant.

My problem wasn't the idea, the problem is I hate Morrison's execution of, well, almost anything. It's ridiculous to have a Batman talking like he did in the 60s, and then expect us to believe that it's the same Batman in the late 2000s. I know it's supposed to be meta, but it completely divorces me from any investment I have in the characters.

for now Kate's backstory with Don't ask/tell will work. But maybe not if we still publish BW stories in 10 or 15 years.

From what I understand, Marc Andreyko already tried to get rid of the don't ask don't tell backstory, and then Tynion put it back. I didn't really read the Andreyko stuff that closely, because it was terrible. But that's what the hardcore Batwoman fans tell me.

[WonderScott]

What we need is a good Batwomen miniseries starring Kate, Barbara, Helena, Stephanie, Cass, and Bette. It can be used as way to spotlight Bette's return to the Batfamily, create ties with some of the other characters, ditch the hideous "Hawkfire" code name (I don't recognize it), and have a brand new redesigned Flamebird costume (something sleek, modern and maybe in balance with Nightwing's design.)

Granted we've had BoP and Tec where some of them have interacted, but the Robins of yore and now have had so many interactions over time, that'd I like to see some of the Batwomen likewise grow their camaraderie.

Bette deserves to shine again and highlighting her amidst the other Batwomen is one way to do it. She has a unique perspective is some respects from her primary relationship being with Batwoman, where many of the rest of them have worked with Batman in the past. I'm sure she respects Batman, but doesn't necessarily look to him as the inspiration for her crimefighting like some of the others have.

(Also, in my tale, she's getting her electric bolas/yo-yo back. And, Orphan will go back to the codename Black Bat.)