SM/WW issue discussion (spoilers)

[Aula_Magna]

She volunteered to fight a battle to the death on Superman's behalf, she's literally his suicide bride, except she's not his bride, though she certainly wishes to be

[Sacred Knight]

Sometimes life throws you unforeseen situations, and how you're going to react to them is unknown until they happen. Past conversations and happy endings doesn't necessarily make present day reactions contradictory. What they learned together in Soule's run was great and heart-warming and all that, but that doesn't mean they're suddenly 100% prepared for every curve ball they're thrown. This is just a curve ball that they're reacting to as they go. Trying to put step-by-step logic to emotions just doesn't work, which is why if you tried to do that when writing fictional characters it'd come of as robotic as it would if real people acted that way.

[dumbduck]

She volunteered to fight a battle to the death on Superman's behalf, she's literally his suicide bride, except she's not his bride, though she certainly wishes to be

And you think that even this Injustice Clark wouldn't do the same for Diana?

[Aula_Magna]

The context is different, Superman doesn't play second fiddle to Wonder Woman and he wouldn't die for someone that longs for another man.

[Auguste Dupin]

The context is different, Superman doesn't play second fiddle to Wonder Woman and he wouldn't die for someone that longs for another man.

Wait,what?
This is Superman. He would die for someone he met for the first time, let alone someone he actually cares about. As would Diana.
Seriously,what kind of argument is that?

[Aula_Magna]

Wait,what?
This is Superman. He would die for someone he met for the first time, let alone someone he actually cares about. As would Diana.
Seriously,what kind of argument is that?

No I mean if Superman died for Wonder Woman, he wouldn't be dying for a woman that longed for another man.

[Sacred Knight]

That's another reality, this is a main reality title, so what's the point of even complaining about that here?

[misslane]

Sometimes life throws you unforeseen situations, and how you're going to react to them is unknown until they happen. Past conversations and happy endings doesn't necessarily make present day reactions contradictory. What they learned together in Soule's run was great and heart-warming and all that, but that doesn't mean they're suddenly 100% prepared for every curve ball they're thrown. This is just a curve ball that they're reacting to as they go. Trying to put step-by-step logic to emotions just doesn't work, which is why if you tried to do that when writing fictional characters it'd come of as robotic as it would if real people acted that way.

Still, people do learn and repeating character beats like that can get monotonous and tedious. You'd think Superman would show a little more solidarity, maturity, and faith given how much he and Diana have been through. I'm watching the new Netflix series Sense8 right now and there's a couple, Nomi and Amanita, who are going through a tough time now because Nomi is going through physical changes and is being hunted by a corrupt organization, yet they aren't constantly trying to push each other away. I mean, I thought the appeal of Superman and Wonder Woman as a couple was because they were two powerhouses who could have each other's back and be a true team. So if their relationship book includes multiple arcs rehashing the same conflicts/themes about worry for the other's physical safety, and distancing as a result, I feel it does them a disservice.

[Auguste Dupin]

No I mean if Superman died for Wonder Woman, he wouldn't be dying for a woman that longed for another man.

...But who is that "other woman" you keep implying Superman longes for ? Lois (because in this case, well, the same argument could be technically made for Diana and Trevor)? Lambert (with whom he had no interraction even implying he's interested in her)?

[YoureStrongIKnow]

As far as Clark telling Diana he can't follow her, well, it seemed obvious to me that the whole "staying in the light" thing was about him breaking into the White House which, y'know, is the kind of thing that tends to have you marked as a traitor, and he probably doesn't want her to be considered one as well. So it's not about her safety or anything, at least in this particular moment of the conversation.

Exactly. Clark is only telling Diana he needs to do this alone because he thinks what he's about to do is crossing a line and doesn't want her to be tainted. He's not being distant or pushing her away he just doesn't want her to cross the line with him.

[Tayswift]

Yeah Injustice Wonder Woman and Tomasi's Wonder Woman are cut from the same cloth aren't they in that they're both very violent and pompous, obsessed and pretty much ready to die for Superman. She's like Superman's suicide bride. Like Konan, who devoted her life to Nagato yet in his death bed, he gave his last words to naruto and not a single one to Konan who then went on to give her life to protect his legacy, and btw she failed.

this Wonder Woman and Injustice have very little self love and writers love to make everything about Superman. And he acts very cold towards her. At least me as superman fan, soon I will be able to read him with a relationship well written, now wonder woman that seems impossible. Really sad what is happening with her.

[Sacred Knight]

When has Tomasi ever written Diana in a way that makes one question her own self-love? And no, portraying her as being deeply in love with Clark and determined to protect him in his weakened state does not make that statement. Show me one panel where she talks down to herself, feels sorry for herself, or does any sort of thing that could slightly be construed as shaming herself. You won't find it because its not there. You're making things up again.

Exactly. Clark is only telling Diana he needs to do this alone because he thinks what he's about to do is crossing a line and doesn't want her to be tainted. He's not being distant or pushing her away he just doesn't want her to cross the line with him.

Yep. He hasn't been distant or pushing her away at all thus far. He hasn't been pushing anyone away in any of the titles since Truth began actually, outside of being mad at Lois. I have no clue where this is coming from. The only thing that showed him possibly pushing her away was the sneak peek, and even that we have a pretty good idea now has nothing to do with pushing her away due to his situation. Something she and most of his closest friends do makes him feel betrayed. Thus looking at things it a form closer to what will be its proper context, its a whole lot more likely to say he's just flat out mad in that Sneak Peek, not distant.

[Awonder]

Superman, you're condition is a part of the "problem at hand". I love how you try to paint her concern as what's advantageous to the "bad guy" as oppose to your condition. How exactly did you plan on surviving the Suicide Squad's assault without her saving you? I especially love the sheer hypocrisy of claiming you "can't deal" with her getting hurt but apparently except her to deal with your vulnerable state just fine.

But she should trust that you can pull your own weight despite evidence to the contrary?



WHAT!?! O_o



A valid concern.



Guess it's fine then.



Another valid concern.



Wishful thinking is not an argument.





I hate it when superheros, particularly Superman, start going down that creepy "I don't care about my life" train of logic. Their lives are worth worrying about, it has value.




You say that as if it were a command, and you have the authority to tell her what to do because?




She's consistently been making valid points yet you have the audacity to cut her off to claim that... her public image is of more importance than your life. What isn't more important than your life, I wonder.




It could be, you just don't want to for reasons you can't be bothered to explain.

How exactly is a crippled version of you better at saving Lana without Wonder Woman's help? Dead people can't save anybody.




As if you could stop her.

Honestly she should just follow him anyway, he can't stop her and his recklessness has taken on a degree of insanity.

Haven't read the issue, but this is hilarious.

[Aula_Magna]

...But who is that "other woman" you keep implying Superman longes for ? Lois (because in this case, well, the same argument could be technically made for Diana and Trevor)? Lambert (with whom he had no interraction even implying he's interested in her)?

Yes it's Lois and no you can't because Wonder Woman, unlike Superman, has never put stress on this relationship, Steve never told Superman that Wonder Woman gave him a booty call in the middle of the night while she was deliberately avoiding him, he's never had to learn from her own friends whilst he searched for Wonder Woman that she never told them about him, she never took her hand off of his when Steve walked in on them on a greek restaurant. I'm sure couples have broken up for less, Wonder Woman didn't bat an eyelash, she doesn't talk it out with him, she's unwaveringly loyal to him like she was born to serve Superman. There's a fine line between love and obsession and right now Wonder Woman's coming off as obsessed, it's a very very poorly written relationship.

I have genuinely no idea what Charles Soule was trying to accomplish by putting Wonder Woman through all this humiliation as well as how some of you can be so invested in this charade of a relationship tbh

[Sacred Knight]

What are you talking about? None of that stuff happened, not in this continuity in which they are a couple. If you're referring to Injustice stuff its utterly irrelevant to this thread and these stories, as they never happened to these characters.