SM/WW issue discussion (spoilers)

[brettc1]

I think people choose to see things how they want. Just seems like a lot of hunting for negativity to me. And I don't understand why it would matter even IF she was taking this pummeling (two hits does not a pummeling make IMO) and Clark saved the moment. They are supposed to be a team, that involves a certain level of working together.

I find it funny that you say Boomerang is a non-event, yet in the same argument you make Clarks skill with boomerangs "make Diana redundant". If Boomerang was such a non-event why does Clark being able to use his weapon a big deal? And as another poster commented, how do we even know these are some kind of special boomerangs built to tag speedsters?

I think we've gone in enough circles here. You read it however you like, just know I think you are dead wrong on this one.

If folks see what they want, that would go both ways. John Hammond might see the positive side to cloning dinosaurs, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Being able to see the drawbacks is important too.

Seriously? Taking down Boomerrang is a mediocre feat for Black Canary, let alone Wonder Woman. Now if HE could stab Flash in both legs with two boomerangs at the same time, he might be impressive...

[ssupes]

If folks see what they want, that would go both ways. John Hammond might see the positive side to cloning dinosaurs, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Being able to see the drawbacks is important too.

Seriously? Taking down Boomerrang is a mediocre feat for Black Canary, let alone Wonder Woman. Now if HE could stab Flash in both legs with two boomerangs at the same time, he might be impressive...

Problem is you see nothing but drawbacks and the level of scrutiny this book receives in regards to other books is ridiculous, especially when a argument continues to rage on about if sparring is a type of training even though actual definitions have been shown.

I don't think captain boomerang is such a low level villain since he is shown here killing a speedster:
973862-vsjaculi.jpg

[Tayswift]

If folks see what they want, that would go both ways. John Hammond might see the positive side to cloning dinosaurs, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Being able to see the drawbacks is important too.

Seriously? Taking down Boomerrang is a mediocre feat for Black Canary, let alone Wonder Woman. Now if HE could stab Flash in both legs with two boomerangs at the same time, he might be impressive...

Boomerang is fay away from being a A+ villain. he shouldn't cause any problems to wonder woman

I can see how they might if they were actually exerting themselves. But if you can see him sweating you'll have to post scans with arrows showing me where.

it could be nice posts the scans to check it

[Aula_Magna]

Where are you getting all that? Seriously, WW and SM are seen as sweaty in the sparring scene, but there is no senes of winning/losing or Diana being "exhausted/tired" or unable to go on. The whole scene is a set up for her to get a lecture from SM about carrying to much responsibility (same speech she got from AM in an earlier issue). The amount of effort people put into making these scenes into negative WW bashing is stunning.

She said she was tired and she was sweating buckets whereas Superman was just kind of glow-y like he was only then starting to warm up. She ran out of fuel before Superman could even build up a sweat. The reasoning behind it was that Wonder Woman is no match for the Man of Steel, the staves are not even a factor, it's just the cliché sparring weapon

[DochaDocha]

The hitability (fake word that means ability or likelihood of getting hit) of speedsters is some of the most inconsistent things in all of comics. My advice is don't read too much into it when they casually get hit in a story. At worst, it's business as usual. If they really wanted to, they can make stories in which speedsters are absolutely untouchable, but a lot of times they make them much easier targets just for the sake of the story, i.e. business as usual. Just look at Flash in other media (can't speak for the CW show, though, since I don't watch it).

But as ssupes correctly pointed out, this title's issues gets singled out like few others. I mean, most of us probably would agree this is not a landmark issue. It's not an issue that people will be talking about for years to come for any particular reason. Superman didn't die. WW wasn't revealed to be the daughter of Zeus. This book didn't explain that Amazons conduct regular sex raids. This isn't the issue that shows the world's reaction to Superman's leaked secret ID. Nonetheless, look at how many posts there are in this thread? 400+! And as I lamented earlier, it's not about analyzing the story, or implications of the story. It's microanalyzing panels. Seriously, how many books undergo this kind of scrutiny?

It's okay to dislike the book, but it clearly has a bullseye on it (which isn't inherently wrong, either, to be fair).

[brettc1]

Problem is you see nothing but drawbacks and the level of scrutiny this book receives in regards to other books is ridiculous, especially when a argument continues to rage on about if sparring is a type of training even though actual definitions have been shown.

I don't think captain boomerang is such a low level villain since he is shown here killing a speedster:
973862-vsjaculi.jpg

Must be an incredible speedster for me never to have heard of him. Even Boomerang says he is not in Flash's class, which Zoom most certainly is.

A ridiculous level of scrutiny usually translates as have opinions that other people don't agree with.

I suppose I could look on the bright side about how Diana didn't lose to Boomerang like whoever the guy in the panel above is...

[brettc1]

The hitability (fake word that means ability or likelihood of getting hit) of speedsters is some of the most inconsistent things in all of comics. My advice is don't read too much into it when they casually get hit in a story. At worst, it's business as usual. If they really wanted to, they can make stories in which speedsters are absolutely untouchable, but a lot of times they make them much easier targets just for the sake of the story, i.e. business as usual. Just look at Flash in other media (can't speak for the CW show, though, since I don't watch it).

But as ssupes correctly pointed out, this title's issues gets singled out like few others. I mean, most of us probably would agree this is not a landmark issue. It's not an issue that people will be talking about for years to come for any particular reason. Superman didn't die. WW wasn't revealed to be the daughter of Zeus. This book didn't explain that Amazons conduct regular sex raids. This isn't the issue that shows the world's reaction to Superman's leaked secret ID. Nonetheless, look at how many posts there are in this thread? 400+! And as I lamented earlier, it's not about analyzing the story, or implications of the story. It's microanalyzing panels. Seriously, how many books undergo this kind of scrutiny?

It's okay to dislike the book, but it clearly has a bullseye on it (which isn't inherently wrong, either, to be fair).

So what are we saying Docha? That a book is a success if it has a thread that goes for two pages and has nothing but happy comments?

The fact is ANY thread on a single issue will go for longer if people disagree.

And like I said, its a Superman story, so if I really wanted to analyse it I would probably do so over on the Superman forums.

That's not to say the issue should not be discussed here. But this is a forum about Wonder Woman, so the discussion here tends to be about her and how she is shown. The points about Superman arise simply because of him doing stuff that is supposed to be among the list of abilities that make Wonder Woman uniquely talented, and how that reflects on her.

Hitability isn't a word?

[DochaDocha]

Your questions are fair, but I only have a few moments this morning so I'll partially answer them.

1. No, I don't believe "hitability" is in the dictionary, but I didn't search very long before confirming one way or another.

2. Just the tenor of this book's threads flow differently from others. I look at the Finch threads, and they're highly negative, but they seem to go deeper in analysis that these threads do. Just the level and degree of analysis seems deeper. Further, the discussions move along to new, pertinent points more smoothly. IMO, of course.

More on this later, if necessary.

[brettc1]

Your questions are fair, but I only have a few moments this morning so I'll partially answer them.

1. No, I don't believe "hitability" is in the dictionary, but I didn't search very long before confirming one way or another.

2. Just the tenor of this book's threads flow differently from others. I look at the Finch threads, and they're highly negative, but they seem to go deeper in analysis that these threads do. Just the level and degree of analysis seems deeper. Further, the discussions move along to new, pertinent points more smoothly. IMO, of course.

More on this later, if necessary.

Heh - maybe the Finch threads have deeper analysis because in this book there is not always a lot about Wonder Woman to analyse.

[Darius]

If folks see what they want, that would go both ways. John Hammond might see the positive side to cloning dinosaurs, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Being able to see the drawbacks is important too.

Seriously? Taking down Boomerrang is a mediocre feat for Black Canary, let alone Wonder Woman. Now if HE could stab Flash in both legs with two boomerangs at the same time, he might be impressive...

so why then is SM trhowing a Boomerang such an impressive one? It's not like he did something like this

IMG_5617.jpg
flash v2 179 (kebbin) 18 Captain Boomerang Pied Piper.jpg
CaptainBoomerang.jpg

[Tayswift]

Heh - maybe the Finch threads have deeper analysis because in this book there is not always a lot about Wonder Woman to analyse.

this is the problem with this book :P

[brettc1]

so why then is SM trhowing a Boomerang such an impressive one? It's not like he did something like this

IMG_5617.jpg
flash v2 179 (kebbin) 18 Captain Boomerang Pied Piper.jpg
CaptainBoomerang.jpg

Because he's never done it before and and on his very first attempt he bullseyes one of the hardest possible targets in the universe.

TWICE.

I also notice in the panel where Joker Boomerang hits The Flash in the ankle the Flash is standing still, not moving fast enough to be a problem for Wonder Woman.

[Darius]

Because he's never done it before and and on his very first attempt he bullseyes one of the hardest possible targets in the universe.

TWICE.

I also notice in the panel where Joker Boomerang hits The Flash in the ankle the Flash is standing still, not moving fast enough to be a problem for Wonder Woman.

SM still has well beyond human speed and strength and durability, despite his considerably lower power levels. Why is it a stretch to believe WW and probably BM have taught him a few things? The fact that WW outright stated she intended too and the we later see them sparring with weapons makes it clear they've been training together.

Reverse Flash was 5 feet away and clearly wasn't moving as superspeed (there is no blur around his movement) when he was hit. Look at the panel. WW's leg is the only thing moving at superspeed.

Look at that scan again, Flash was dodging all of those boomerangs at superspeed and got hit by a trick shot (i.e. it actually boomeranged into him) Jokerized CB even says that Flash was predictably dodging the obvious.

[ssupes]

Must be an incredible speedster for me never to have heard of him. Even Boomerang says he is not in Flash's class, which Zoom most certainly is.

A ridiculous level of scrutiny usually translates as have opinions that other people don't agree with.

I suppose I could look on the bright side about how Diana didn't lose to Boomerang like whoever the guy in the panel above is...

You said that if Captain boomerang could hit the flash he might be impressive and the scans show him wounding a speedster, will he ever kill the flash or reverse flash? Probably not since only a handful of villains have killed title superheroes, but he is still capable of hitting a speedster and while his villain grading isn't A, it certainly isn't D or below.
I mean lets face it, he is a regular on both the flash's rogues and the suicide squad and is going to appear in the upcoming movie.

[Darius]

She said she was tired and she was sweating buckets whereas Superman was just kind of glow-y like he was only then starting to warm up. She ran out of fuel before Superman could even build up a sweat. The reasoning behind it was that Wonder Woman is no match for the Man of Steel, the staves are not even a factor, it's just the cliché sparring weapon

She had 3 beads of sweat on her body and deflected his question by saying "let's hit the showers" that hardly qualifies as "buckets" and tired beyond emotionally.