SM/WW issue discussion (spoilers)

[Auguste Dupin]

Yes it's Lois and no you can't because Wonder Woman, unlike Superman, has never put stress on this relationship, Steve never told Superman that Wonder Woman gave him a booty call in the middle of the night while she was deliberately avoiding him, he's never had to learn from her own friends whilst he searched for Wonder Woman that she never told them about him, she never took her hand off of his when Steve walked in on them on a greek restaurant. I'm sure couples have broken up for less, Wonder Woman didn't bat an eyelash, she doesn't talk it out with him, she's unwaveringly loyal to him like she was born to serve Superman. There's a fine line between love and obsession and right now Wonder Woman's coming off as obsessed, it's a very very poorly written relationship.

I have genuinely no idea what Charles Soule was trying to accomplish by putting Wonder Woman through all this humiliation as well as how some of you can be so invested in this charade of a relationship tbh

Waitaminute.....Are you talking about when he was possessed by Doomsday? Seriously? That's your argument? That Clark, when having his mind taken over by a beast of pure destruction against his will, was kind of a douche?
Also, no idea where that "greek restaurant"scene is from, but I've read the entire book so far and it doesn't ring a bell.

[Sacred Knight]

I can only surmise he's talking about some things that went down in the Injustice comic, because absolutely nothing stated there has ever happened to the New 52 versions either in SM/WW, Justice League, or any other title. It which case I'm also assuming there's some confusion of continuity going on here and that he doesn't realize that what happens in Injustice has absolutely no bearing on the "real" New 52/DCYou counterparts.

[brettc1]

No bullets and bracelets, just stands there while the bullets bounce off.

Smiling while Superman beats somebody up.

Even when Black Manta is conscious still does not even think to put the lasso of truth around him to get answers.

Superman/Who-the-hell-is-this-Woman?


PS - in profile Clark looks like the way Tomasi used to draw Major Disaster back in JLA.

[brettc1]

Wonder Woman: "And I'm going with you."
Superman: "No. You're not."

You say that as if it were a command, and you have the authority to tell her what to do because?

Because it's his story arc - Diana is just taking up space in it.

[Aula_Magna]

Waitaminute.....Are you talking about when he was possessed by Doomsday? Seriously? That's your argument? That Clark, when having his mind taken over by a beast of pure destruction against his will, was kind of a douche?
Also, no idea where that "greek restaurant"scene is from, but I've read the entire book so far and it doesn't ring a bell.

Yeah I am, Doomsday never really corrupted Clark's personality, they were separate sentient beings that coexisted within Superman's body. One can only assume that in Clark's weakened condition, filters went off and truths came pouring out of his mouth.

[Sacred Knight]

Yes, he did corrupt Superman's personality. It was a transformation both physical and mental. The part of him that still existed was deep within his consciousness fighting for control but only able to gain it for brief periods. The face-off in his head between his true self and the Superdoom self is proof that what we see on the outside is a corrupted personality; the real him is fighting for control in these segments, its not him on the outside. For brief periods the real him that's trapped deep within the subconscious is able to fight forth and he's himself again, the he loses control again. That's how it presented in the actual story. The "no filter" perspective is not supported, be it in that story, or in any story since.

[Aula_Magna]

Doesn't change anything, his corrupted self gave Lois Lane a booty call, his corrupted self is a filters-off version of Clark. On some more or less deep level, Clark desired Lois Lane and Wonder Woman came face to face with that truth and didn't bat an eyelash.

[Sacred Knight]

How does it not change anything when it completely debunks your argument? You said he wasn't corrupted so it was essentially him who did the deed. Only he was corrupted and it wasn't him. Now you say it doesn't matter. You're just changing gears to suit an unsupportable argument. That was not an unfiltered Clark. Its not like he was essentially drunk. It was the monster using his memories and experiences and perverting them outwardly. Hence corruption. Hence it was not him. It was the monster using him. The real Clark is the guy shown many times inside his own head with no control.

[Lokimaru]

No bullets and bracelets, just stands there while the bullets bounce off.

Smiling while Superman beats somebody up.

Even when Black Manta is conscious still does not even think to put the lasso of truth around him to get answers.

Superman/Who-the-hell-is-this-Woman?


PS - in profile Clark looks like the way Tomasi used to draw Major Disaster back in JLA.

Yeah I sure Hephestus couldn't make Armor that can stop Bullets, nope can't do it. Hey Leo your Dad Sux!

[Aula_Magna]

I'm merely acknowledging that maybe you're correct about the infection corrupting Clark. To me it seemed like Doomsday had suddenly developed intelligence and was on the hunt for a new vessel and that his personality was battling Superman's over control of his body but I didn't read the whole event so I'll just take your word for it. However I think it doesn't really change anything, Superman was shown longing for Lois Lane BEFORE he succumbed to Doomsday and the infection switched his filters off dragging that desire all the way up to surface. And also you have to keep in mind that there's intentionality behind this scene, doomsday didn't randomly happen to have this effect on Superman

[Auguste Dupin]

Yeah I am, Doomsday never really corrupted Clark's personality, they were separate sentient beings that coexisted within Superman's body. One can only assume that in Clark's weakened condition, filters went off and truths came pouring out of his mouth.

So, which is it? They were two separate beings or Doomsday caused Clark's filters to go off? Because these two arguments seem pretty incompatible from where I'm standing.
Seriously, Clark was turning into a monster after being infected by a virus. As you said, Clark and Doomsday are two separate beings fighting for dominance. Saying Clark is subconsciously longing for Lois because of something his Doomsday self did is like saying that Clark subconsciously wanted to break Steel's hand and to burn down everything in his path because he did those things as Doomsday. This proves nothing. The whole point of that arc is that Clark is fighting to prevent himself from becoming something he's not.
Plus, let's be real here, had Diana broken up with Clark because of the things his Doomsday self did, you guys would still be complaining that she's being mischaracterized.

[brettc1]

Yeah I sure Hephestus couldn't make Armor that can stop Bullets, nope can't do it. Hey Leo your Dad Sux!

Sure - and while we're at it, let's give the Flash a Green Lantern Ring and have Batman bitten by a radioactive spider. It's making them better.

[Sacred Knight]

I'm merely acknowledging that maybe you're correct about the infection corrupting Clark. To me it seemed like Doomsday had suddenly developed intelligence and was on the hunt for a new vessel and that his personality was battling Superman's over control of his body but I didn't read the whole event so I'll just take your word for it. However I think it doesn't really change anything, Superman was shown longing for Lois Lane BEFORE he succumbed to Doomsday and the infection switched his filters off dragging that desire all the way up to surface. And also you have to keep in mind that there's intentionality behind this scene, doomsday didn't randomly happen to have this effect on Superman

No one's denying he had romantic intentions toward Lois when he was single in Metropolis. But there's nothing wrong with that. Nothing that suggests his feelings now for Diana are insincere because the former didn't develop into anything. Nothing that suggests that in the present he didn't simply move on when someone new caught his eye. It happens. It just so happens that this one developed. And now he's in love with Diana. This is all a perfectly normal sequence of events in regards to human relationships. The idea that Diana is being treated poorly by simply being an adult and not dwelling on this is puzzling to me.

[Gaelforce]

Let's stay on topic - the latest issue of SM/WW.

Injustice is completely irrelevant to this discussion as it occurs in a completely different Elseworlds universe.

If there are valid comparisons/discussion points of what occurred in this issue versus past issues in this continuity, that's fine, but let's not go off the rails any further.

[brettc1]

And indeed, there is much to discuss.

So we take Wonder Woman, and we dress her in Iron Man armor and give her wolverine claws. Bullets and Bracelets - gone.

"Bullets and Braclets is lame. She gets hit by Kryptonians! Why does she need to block a bullet?"

Well first, the Flash not beating any of his rogues except Zoom in the first panel of every issue is also lame.

And second - the armor does not show how tough she is. ANYBODY can wear that armor. Not anybody could block every round from a gatling gun with a pair of bracelets.

The panel where she belts Harley. Honestly I wondered what the heck that was about. I needed a splash page to see Wonder Woman punching out HARLEY QUINN?

That's like giving a splash page to The Hulk hitting Batroc the Leaper!