Sentry, just how much energy can he dish out?

[Surtur]

I just think that, based on the feat, "multi planet busting" seems to be..a label that sells him a bit short. I guess the term just brings to mind someone who can destroy a few planets at once, even though the word "multi" could mean anything. Odin is technically a multi planet buster too..but I don't see Sentry as on that level. Though he is a lot closer to it then someone like..Thanos, for example.

[Cody]

I just think that, based on the feat, "multi planet busting" seems to be..a label that sells him a bit short. I guess the term just brings to mind someone who can destroy a few planets at once, even though the word "multi" could mean anything. Odin is technically a multi planet buster too..but I don't see Sentry as on that level. Though he is a lot closer to it then someone like..Thanos, for example.

As it is he just doesn't have the feats that put him at Star busting, let alone having enough energy to blanket the entire Solar system. If you have scan that say otherwise then post em, otherwise he is at most just under star busting.

[Surtur]

As it is he just doesn't have the feats that put him at Star busting, let alone having enough energy to blanket the entire Solar system. If you have scan that say otherwise then post em, otherwise he is at most just under star busting.

I just don't see how energy visible by people in the normal universe..even though the fight was in the microverse, wouldn't at least be enough to blanket a solar system. Unless I'm really misunderstanding what the microverse is and the size of it. I know the feat has been debated before about just how much power it shows, but I'd think he could at least blanket our entire solar system..but maybe I'm wrong.

I don't have the scan, but the scan posted in this thread does not show the part where it shows a little flash of light on Iron Man's armor..showing that is where the fight is taking place, etc.

[Cody]

I just don't see how energy visible by people in the normal universe..even though the fight was in the microverse, wouldn't at least be enough to blanket a solar system. Unless I'm really misunderstanding what the microverse is and the size of it. I know the feat has been debated before about just how much power it shows, but I'd think he could at least blanket our entire solar system..but maybe I'm wrong.

I don't have the scan, but the scan posted in this thread does not show the part where it shows a little flash of light on Iron Man's armor..showing that is where the fight is taking place, etc.

Microverse is intended as a place being so damn small that it cannot be seen by the naked eye. If their power was shrunk along with their size and they did that? I'd say they would be outright universe busters if anything. But seeing as there were no statements saying their power had shrunk along with them, then having their attacks appear outside of the microverse should not mark them at SS busters.

[Guy Smiley]

Except, as you can tell by everyone else agreement, that is exactly what happened. There is no reason for their power to shrink just because their size did. It's the microverse, they shrunk, their power shouldn't have unless stated otherwise.

So, you're arguing that Wasp should indeed be a planet-buster in the Microverse? That's what I'm getting from this.

Perhaps you misunderstood. An energy blast the size of an actual sized mountain, like Everest or something, if casted inside the microverse, would, and should appear outside of the microverse due to the sheer size.

Ignore the rest of my argument if you must. This is the statement that made me reply to your post. No. Just no.

Sheer size? Remember, a Microverse planet is the size of an atom at best. Even Olympus Mons isn't a significant chunk of its home planet's mass, much less Everest. A Microverse mountain is many magnitudes smaller than a single atom to us. A Microverse solar system, empty space included, would probably be visible to the naked eye, (the width of a few hairs - much smaller than the gleam on Tony Stark's armor) if the Earth-representative planet were the size of a carbon atom, but the individual planets, even if glowing like they were on fire, would still need an electron microscope to even detect as a kind of fuzzy dot, much less notice tiny surface features like mountains. (Meanwhile, at least one source I found claims that if the Earth were the size of a proton - which IIRC is supposed to be closer in scale to the Microverse - the solar system'd be smaller than a hydrogen atom. Carbon atoms, much bigger, could still have around 7 trillion comfortably stuffed into the average printed period.)

What I'm trying to say here is that atomic scale or subatomic regardless, a mountain-sized energy blast would be utterly negligible at the kind of size differential we're talking about.

Now, if their energy-blasting powers were completely unreduced, as you're arguing, then Sentry firing the amount of energy to result in a mountain-sized blast would result in... a mountain-sized blast in the real world, just from a more condensed starting area. (Along with a bunch of dead Avengers if he's firing it while in a section of the Microverse located on Iron Man's armor.) That would mean the candle-sized light we see in the feat would be a hilariously low showing for Sentry.

Combined with the fact that the narration stated they were dishing out enough power to sunder worlds, and not a star, it would seem to be a strength to assume they are star busters from that performance alone.

Why should the narration say they are dishing out enough to destroy stars, even if it's true? They are actually shredding planets on page, and from what I can see of the shot, we don't see any stars at all. The narration doesn't need to go "Oh, by the way, these dudes are busting planets, but they could totally be trashing stars right now, trust me" for it to be a thing based on other parameters. While I understand your reluctance to give Sentry higher feats than what you believe him to have shown on-panel, the lack of narrative hyperbole isn't really an argument against a feat.

[Surtur]

Well yeah..the feat is a pretty crazy power output if you really try to think about it, but..at the very least I'd put him above star busting. Though it depends on the star, it would take over a million Earth's to fill up our sun.

[Pendaran]

, etc.
Microverse is intended as a place being so damn small that it cannot be seen by the naked eye. If their power was shrunk along with their size and they did that? I'd say they would be outright universe busters if anything. But seeing as there were no statements saying their power had shrunk along with them, then having their attacks appear outside of the microverse should not mark them at SS busters.

You are thinking wayyyy too hard about this.

[Pendaran]

Well yeah..the feat is a pretty crazy power output if you really try to think about it

Which no one should really be doing.

[Cody]

No. Just no.

Except that is exactly what happened. Unless you are trying to say they are universe busters for having their energy attacks be seen from outside the microverse.

Sheer size? Remember, a Microverse planet is the size of an atom at best. Even Olympus Mons isn't a significant chunk of its home planet's mass, much less Everest. A Microverse mountain is many magnitudes smaller than a single atom to us. A Microverse solar system, empty space included, would probably be visible to the naked eye, (the width of a few hairs - much smaller than the gleam on Tony Stark's armor) if the Earth-representative planet were the size of a carbon atom, but the individual planets, even if glowing like they were on fire, would still need an electron microscope to even detect as a kind of fuzzy dot, much less notice tiny surface features like mountains. (Meanwhile, at least one source I found claims that if the Earth were the size of a proton - which IIRC is supposed to be closer in scale to the Microverse - the solar system'd be smaller than a hydrogen atom. Carbon atoms, much bigger, could still have around 7 trillion comfortably stuffed into the average printed period.)

What I'm trying to say here is that atomic scale or subatomic regardless, a mountain-sized energy blast would be utterly negligible at the kind of size differential we're talking about.

You're basically saying the microverse is really small. We know this. But again, you seem under the impression that their powers would have been shrunk along with their size. Again, say Sentry unleashed an energy attack the size of earth inside of the microverse. That would engulf something that is the size of an atom. It is still nowhere near a star busting feat.

Now, if their energy-blasting powers were completely unreduced, as you're arguing, then Sentry firing the amount of energy to result in a mountain-sized blast would result in... a mountain-sized blast in the real world, just from a more condensed starting area. (Along with a bunch of dead Avengers if he's firing it while in a section of the Microverse located on Iron Man's armor.) That would mean the candle-sized light we see in the feat would be a hilariously low showing for Sentry.

Wouldn't be the first, or last hilarious low showing for him.

Why should the narration say they are dishing out enough to destroy stars, even if it's true?

Maybe it's because they do that type of **** all the time when they are showcasing their more powerful characters?

They are actually shredding planets on page, and from what I can see of the shot, we don't see any stars at all. The narration doesn't need to go "Oh, by the way, these dudes are busting planets, but they could totally be trashing stars right now, trust me"

Yea no. The narration stated they were dishing out enough power to shred planets. As in, planets *NOT* from the microverse. If they were unleashing star busting damage, the Narration would say "And though the power both men spit out is enough to shred entire stars". And yes, the Marvel writers have no qualms making characters like that.

for it to be a thing based on other parameters. While I understand your reluctance to give Sentry higher feats than what you believe him to have shown on-panel, the lack of narrative hyperbole isn't really an argument against a feat.

No, it just doesn't prove he is a Solar System wrecker.

[Daenarys Stormborn]

No idea about Sentry overall, but the way I see the thing talked about in the op...

A) Either the micro-verse is like our universe but smaller and everything that happened in it or seen from it is analgous to our universe. In which case Sentry's blast would need to be, at minimum, whatever was shown on panel + Supernova level to be seen as it was "outside". Here, a maximum would require actually determining scale and stuff relative to ours. But the minimum is easy.

B) Either the micro-verse is consider nothing like our universe and thereby everything that happened in it is a non-feat. I.e. We have no idea what things are made of in there, what energy shines, how energy interacts,etc. In which case the feat is relevant only if a fight is taking place in the micro-verse.

Personally, I'd go with B unless Sentry has another feat of comparable busting power.

[Pendaran]

B) Either the micro-verse is consider nothing like our universe and thereby everything that happened in it is a non-feat. I.e. We have no idea what things are made of in there, what energy shines, how energy interacts,etc. In which case the feat is relevant only if a fight is taking place in the micro-verse.

Personally, I'd go with B unless Sentry has another feat of comparable busting power.

The microverse, having had whole series at length to that point, is a place with planets, where people fly around in spaceships, where planets are treated like planets, stars like stars, etc. etc. etc. So.. no. There is nothing to suggest planets are not planets in it, and so forth.

More particularly, its use in that comic treats it as such, besides. So again, no.

[Pendaran]

Yea no. The narration stated they were dishing out enough power to shred planets. As in, planets *NOT* from the microverse. If they were unleashing star busting damage, the Narration would say "And though the power both men spit out is enough to shred entire stars". And yes, the Marvel writers have no qualms making characters like that.

You continue to base an entire argument in trying to analyze the microverse in ways no one involved with creating the microverse, or writing about it, or comics, have remotely considered when using the microverse. And also at this point on leaving out the "and that was both of them holding back" part.

[big_adventure]

Just to chime in a little - the Microverse has a long history with a lot of powerful people working in it, and there has been precisely one time energy released in said 'verse was visible outside of if. So, yeah, powerful, which... doesn't at all go against the guy's characterization. Trying to put a specific number (Sentry can release 6.02 x 10e23 Joules!) on it is kind of ridiculous.

[Guy Smiley]

Except that is exactly what happened. Unless you are trying to say they are universe busters for having their energy attacks be seen from outside the microverse.

I just asked you if that (a mountain-sized attack being visible from the Macroverse) had actually happened, and you said it hadn't but that I was missing the point. Has it happened or not?

To recap: I just said that an attack that could blow up a Microverse mountain would not be visible from the Macroverse. You previously specifically stated that from 'sheer size', such an attack would easily be visible. I post wall of text showing that Microverse is too tiny for that to be the case, which you dismiss because "Sentry's power isn't reduced". I don't see where universe-busting comes into this argument at all.

The problem here is that it goes in one of two directions: Mountain-buster proportional to Microverse: Not Visible.
Mountain-buster not proportional to Microverse: Destroys Macroverse mountain. (Yes, this is visible in the Macroverse. Mountains frigging exploding tend to be visible.)

I just don't get where you're coming up with 'Mountain-busters that can be seen in Macroverse as tiny flashes,' which is specifically what I said "No. Just no" to. When unleashing planet-destroying energies, the choice here is between Sentry's power being diminished proportionally to his actual size, or Iron Man exploding and destroying the planet Earth.

You're basically saying the microverse is really small. We know this. But again, you seem under the impression that their powers would have been shrunk along with their size. Again, say Sentry unleashed an energy attack the size of earth inside of the microverse. That would engulf something that is the size of an atom. It is still nowhere near a star busting feat.

Right, so your argument is that Sentry, paragon of self-control that he is, did not have his relative power diminished in the slightest, and therefore specifically and intentionally unleashed the absolute tiniest trickle of power, so as not to bust more than a few trillion atoms (Remember, 7.5 trillion atoms can fit in a space roughly the size of this period.) while drawing on all those fundamental forces mentioned in the narration and battling Photon. Because otherwise, if his power was undiminished, see my line about Tony Stark exploding and destroying the planet Earth.

Yea no. The narration stated they were dishing out enough power to shred planets. As in, planets *NOT* from the microverse.

So your argument here is that Sentry's power was completely undiminished when he was shrunk, and that he was throwing enough power around to detonate Macroverse planets while in the Microverse, and that despite being completely undiminished, enough power to destroy the actual Earth... did not destroy the Earth, but instead made a little 'ping!' on Iron Man's armor. But that's totally enough power to destroy the Earth, totally unaffected in the slightest by Sentry's being shrunk to a subatomic scale.

Wat.

Are you trying to make my head explode?

The argument for Sentry as SS-buster is simple: Sentry is tiny. Sentry's powers are shrunk too. When Sentry blows up a solar-system-sized area in the Microverse, enough to create a bright flash in the Macroverse, a simple conversion of scale results in him being somewhere on the level of a SS-buster at normal size.

Your argument against Sentry being a SS-buster is: Sentry is tiny. Sentry's powers are not shrunk too. When Sentry blows up a solar-system-sized area in the Microverse, enough to create a bright flash in the Macroverse, that's merely a planet-busting attack that somehow contained itself to an area the size of an atom, while putting out merely the light of a candle, despite being powerful enough to destroy the entire Earth. That any attack even on a mountain-busting scale would act the same way. And anyone who thinks that any of this is implausible is somehow arguing that Sentry must be a universe-buster, because for some reason that's now what would be required, if Sentry's power were diminished by shrinkage, for him to have the effect shown as a 'ping' on Iron Man's armor.

There seriously has to be something, some special trait about the Microverse in general, that you consider completely obvious but... isn't, for any of that to make sense.

[Cody]

You continue to base an entire argument in trying to analyze the microverse in ways no one involved with creating the microverse, or writing about it, or comics, have remotely considered when using the microverse. And also at this point on leaving out the "and that was both of them holding back" part.

And you conveniently leave out the fact that I have mentioned that bit, repeatedly. Holding back while dishing out energy that "sunders worlds" doesn't automatically mean that their full power can bust a star.

I just asked you if that (a mountain-sized attack being visible from the Macroverse) had actually happened, and you said it hadn't but that I was missing the point. Has it happened or not?

And I said no. When I said you misunderstood me, I was speaking about when you said "That is, has a character unleashed an energy blast the size of a Microverse mountain" <-which seemed to me that you were assuming I was talking about miroverse terms. As in; I was saying that if a guy who unleashed enough energy to blow up a mountain in the microverse that attack would appear outside of the microverse. That is not what I meant, and no it should not because that blast would be too small to be seen from the outside world. While on the other hand, if someone unleashed enough energy to blow up a mountain in the normal universe, the blast would be so big in the microverse that is should appear outside of the microverse. As it is an incredibly small universe that can't be seen normally even with microscopic vision, while a mountain on Earth is far bigger.

To recap: I just said that an attack that could blow up a Microverse mountain would not be visible from the Macroverse. You previously specifically stated that from 'sheer size', such an attack would easily be visible. I post wall of text showing that Microverse is too tiny for that to be the case, which you dismiss because "Sentry's power isn't reduced". I don't see where universe-busting comes into this argument at all.

^which would completely miss the point of my argument completely as that is not what I meant at all.

The problem here is that it goes in one of two directions: Mountain-buster proportional to Microverse: Not Visible.

I agree

Mountain-buster not proportional to Microverse: Destroys Macroverse mountain. (Yes, this is visible in the Macroverse. Mountains frigging exploding tend to be visible.)

This is what I meant yes.

I just don't get where you're coming up with 'Mountain-busters that can be seen in Macroverse as tiny flashes,' which is specifically what I said "No. Just no" to. When unleashing planet-destroying energies, the choice here is between Sentry's power being diminished proportionally to his actual size, or Iron Man exploding and destroying the planet Earth.

And if his power wasn't scaled down along his size. That would mean the power that he and Photon were dishing out would be capable of being seen from outside the normal universe had they not teleported to the microverse. Which would undoubtedly make them around galaxy-universe busting level as the energy they were dishing out would have completely destroyed the microverse they were fighting in. If their power was not scaled down, as you seem to assume, then if they fought in their own universe instead of being transported to the microverse, then the energy they would have unleashed would be see able from the outside of their universe and more or less completely destroy their either their galaxy at minimum or their universe at the most.

Right, so your argument is that Sentry, paragon of self-control that he is, did not have his relative power diminished in the slightest, and therefore specifically and intentionally unleashed the absolute tiniest trickle of power, so as not to bust more than a few trillion atoms (Remember, 7.5 trillion atoms can fit in a space roughly the size of this period.) while drawing on all those fundamental forces mentioned in the narration and battling Photon. Because otherwise, if his power was undiminished, see my line about Tony Stark exploding and destroying the planet Earth.

So according to you, low showings never happen? Again, if they were scaled down relative to their size, then, in order for their attacks to be seen outside of the microverse, they would have to be unleashing somewhere around galaxy-universe wrecking power. I mean if they could do it in the microverse with scaled down power, why wouldn't they be able to do the same in their own universe with their power and size not scaled down?

So your argument here is that Sentry's power was completely undiminished when he was shrunk, and that he was throwing enough power around to detonate Macroverse planets while in the Microverse, and that despite being completely undiminished, enough power to destroy the actual Earth... did not destroy the Earth, but instead made a little 'ping!' on Iron Man's armor. But that's totally enough power to destroy the Earth, totally unaffected in the slightest by Sentry's being shrunk to a subatomic scale.

Wat.

And your argument would mean that Sentry and Photon are somewhere around Galaxy-Universe busting levels if their power was scaled down along with their size.

Are you trying to make my head explode?

No

The argument for Sentry as SS-buster is simple: Sentry is tiny. Sentry's powers are shrunk too. When Sentry blows up a solar-system-sized area in the Microverse, enough to create a bright flash in the Macroverse, a simple conversion of scale results in him being somewhere on the level of a SS-buster at normal size.

And just how would a SS busting attack be see able outside of the microverse? Are Solar system busters in the normal universe see able from outside of it? For I sincerely doubt that. A galaxy bust? Maybe. But I sincerely doubt it would be as big as the blasts that Captain America were dodging. That would take far more power. Hell, I doubt it would even be as big as the "ping" that came up on Tony's armor.

Your argument against Sentry being a SS-buster is: Sentry is tiny. Sentry's powers are not shrunk too. When Sentry blows up a solar-system-sized area in the Microverse,

Again, how do you figure it was a solar system sized area? They were in the microverse, an incredibly small universe. How, in anyway, would a solar system eradicating blast, be see able from outside a universe? Micro or otherwise? You realize that, for even an incredibly small blast to be see able from outside of the universe, it would have to be at least capable of destroying a galaxy? If not a **** ton more?

enough to create a bright flash in the Macroverse, that's merely a planet-busting attack that somehow contained itself to an area the size of an atom, while putting out merely the light of a candle, despite being powerful enough to destroy the entire Earth. That any attack even on a mountain-busting scale would act the same way. And anyone who thinks that any of this is implausible is somehow arguing that Sentry must be a universe-buster, because for some reason that's now what would be required, if Sentry's power were diminished by shrinkage, for him to have the effect shown as a 'ping' on Iron Man's armor.

There seriously has to be something, some special trait about the Microverse in general, that you consider completely obvious but... isn't, for any of that to make sense.

Says the guy who is basically saying a Solar System busting attack would be see able from outside a universe.