Kevin Feige Responds to Black Widow Criticisms, Lack of Female MCU Leads

[dragonmp93]

Have you never seen how each and every movie they did so far got ripped apart online by subsets of "fans"? There's never any consensus as to whether or not a Marvel movie is done well, among fans. Fans are the worst reviewers. I don't doubt for a minute that a Black Widow movie will have it worse than most, for obvious reasons. Some bloggers will start compiling their lists of platitudes to put it down the moment it is announced. Being a Marvel fan and being horrible are not mutually exclusive.

But all of this is just conjecture. We'll have to wait and see if they ever do a BW movie.

Well, i think that you confusing Tumblr Users and sites like the Mary Sue with the average Black Widow fan.

Anyways, i prefer that the movies have protagonist with superpowers, like Captain Marvel and She-Hulk instead.

[JimRaynor55]

Have you never seen how each and every movie they did so far got ripped apart online by subsets of "fans"? There's never any consensus as to whether or not a Marvel movie is done well, among fans. Fans are the worst reviewers. I don't doubt for a minute that a Black Widow movie will have it worse than most, for obvious reasons. Some bloggers will start compiling their lists of platitudes to put it down the moment it is announced. Being a Marvel fan and being horrible are not mutually exclusive.

But all of this is just conjecture. We'll have to wait and see if they ever do a BW movie.

Yeah, ripped apart like Iron Man 2 & 3. Ripped apart like Thor: The Dark World and Age of Ultron.

Marvel was so traumatized by the fan critiques that they just stopped making movies. Oh wait, they didn't. They laughed all the way to the bank because all of those movies were in fact well received by most fans and very successful commercially.

Complaining is nothing specific to Black Widow fans, nor is it something that actually bothers Marvel. It's not a good reason against a BW movie.

[dragonmp93]

Yeah, ripped apart like Iron Man 2 & 3. Ripped apart like Thor: The Dark World and Age of Ultron.

Marvel was so traumatized by the fan critiques that they just stopped making movies. Oh wait, they didn't. They laughed all the way to the bank because all of those movies were in fact well received by most fans and very successful commercially.

Complaining is nothing specific to Black Widow fans, nor is it something that actually bothers Marvel. It's not a good reason against a BW movie.

Well, what i have against a BW movie is that she is powerless and lacks any kind of cool weapons; she was fighting aliens in the first Avenger with a 9 mm and her normal-human-strenght bare fist, for god sake.

[JimRaynor55]

Well, what i have against a BW movie is that she is powerless and lacks any kind of cool weapons; she was fighting aliens in the first Avenger with a 9 mm and her normal-human-strenght bare fist, for god sake.

She's used 9mm guns, knives, her Widow's Bite tazers, a garrote, a grappling line, electrified batons, rifles, a grenade launcher, various bombs, and small throwing disks with electric shock and flash bang effects. That's a wide arsenal and any filmmaker can add even more to it.

[Hypestyle]

A BW movie should be heavy on espionage and stealth. It should not deal with alien invasions. It can be of a smaller budget and still make money.

[kalorama]

You're misrepresenting Black Widow fans as a bunch of unpleasable demonic crazies. 9/10 people who like the character will probably like a BW solo movie if it's done well. They're not a separate fanbase. They're Avengers and Marvel fans. Stop generalizing them as some other group of horrible people.

The problem isn't that they're horrible people. The problem--from Marvel's perspective--is whether there are enough of them to justify the cost of a major budget film.

[toddx77]

You're basically saying that everything that Marvel Studios (and Marvel Comics for decades before it) have been doing is wrong.

Solo movies allow for variety, focused storytelling, and individual character development. Not everything has to be an epic team up.

For an origin or the beginning of a shared universe yes but after all the heroes have met it just seems like a waste to me. Arrow had no problems with focused story telling or character development even though since season 2 the show has been a team up show.

It's pointing out the unfair accusation that Widow fans as somehow being far more whinier than every other fan who complains. Being dismissive of their opinions for being negative on some areas.

You yourself complained right here about how Marvel makes its movies. But the Widow fans are all wrong for not liking some of the things that were done with the character?

They can complain all they want. The difference is I don't make my complaints out to be first world problems are use death threats to defend them lol. Maybe it is because I just really prefer team based movies that I find it funny how desperate people are for a black widow movie.

It's not killing Whedon to criticize a few parts of his writing. Whedon himself has said that he can take the criticism. He's a grown man and a professional, not some fragile thing that must be sheltered from all negative opinions.

And yes, the scene was stupid. Natasha can MacGuyver up a way to contact the team but doesn't have any lock picks, acid, or explosives on her to break a few plain metal bars. Ultron never bothered to guard her or even fully confiscate all of her tools. Bruce Banner didn't have to fight to save her. Captain America somehow wanted to fight off Ultron's big extinction level event without either the Widow or the Hulk. The scene was dumb on several levels and fans were right to criticize it.

Maybe she didn't have any acid, lock picks, or explosives on her?

All heroes have their own stuff to deal with when they're not part of a team. I'm pretty sure Steve and SHIELD we're dealing with HYDRA infiltrators around IM3.

According to the MCU time line Iron Man 3 took place a year before the events of The Winter Solider.

[Colossus1980]

Marvel missed the boat when they made Ant-man. Clearly they should have used Janet Van Dyne and titled the movie 'The Wasp' and had Ant-man as the sidekick. There are so many female characters that can bring big box office on their own. Besides Black Widow and Captain Marvel, there's the She-hulk, Spider-Woman, Valkyrie, Tigra, Moondragon, Misty Knight, the list goes on and on.

Clearly Marvel is being run by misogynistic men. Boycott Marvel comics until there are more female super-heroes on screen!

[Mike82]

Ooh, Spider-Man! Push back all the movies about chicks and black dudes!



Heck yeah. Monica didn't get her name or powers from dudes, and doesn't have generic been-there, done-that 'Superman' powers of flight, invulnerability and strength (much like Jessica Jones), but, obviously not to the levels of a *male* hero like Thor (so she's no threat to the boys tender fee-fees).

Monica's just flat out better in every regard, IMO.

While those 'Superman' like powers seem fairly commonplace, they're almost non-existent in the MCU. Thor doesn't fly, his hammer does. Ironman and War Machine have suits of armor, and Falcon has a jet-pack. Vision is the only who has the ability to fly sans any visual method of propulsion. Carol Danvers' powers will be unique in the MCU. Add those 'superman' like powers to her energy blasts and absorption, and possibly flash pre-cognition, and she's in a close of her own.

Yes, how dare people want films to reflect actual life/demographics. Clearly they're just whiners who should go away, oh please spare us.

Marvel Studios has always been about bringing comicbooks to real life. So, don't be surprised that the movies actually reflect that. Marvel's focus has always been on the Avengers, and the main Avengers have always been your average white, straight, male. With that being said, Marvel has taken steps in the right direction. They made Heimdell black, and currently have cast a female Ancient One for the Doctor Strange movie. Not to mention, all the strong female support characters and an upcoming Captain Marvel movie.

They also take big risks on Z-list characters (GotG) and indulge quirky filmmakers who sit on a project for most of a decade (Ant-Man). Marvel is clearly not a perfectly run machine, even if it's a machine that runs damn well.

Also, I seriously doubt any model told them that Avengers team T-shirts would sell better if they made a point of including everyone except for BW. No little boy hates girls that much. Stuff like that does however plant the idea that women are unimportant and shouldn't be included.

A movie about a tree and a raccoon is a lot more kid friendly than a spy film. Guardians introduces the cosmic side of the MCU, which is very important if they're trying to set up Infinity War and Captain Marvel. Marvel just doesn't make movies in a vacuum. They have a story to tell, and the challenge isn't as simple as "would a Black Widow movie work?" Its whether or not a Black Widow movie would work within the story Marvel is trying to tell.

Well, what i have against a BW movie is that she is powerless and lacks any kind of cool weapons; she was fighting aliens in the first Avenger with a 9 mm and her normal-human-strenght bare fist, for god sake.

Agreed. It was a bit ridiculous in the overhead shot of the heroes in AOU to have Widow shooting her tiny pistols at an army of armored robots. I understand its a comic book movie, but c'mon.

She's used 9mm guns, knives, her Widow's Bite tazers, a garrote, a grappling line, electrified batons, rifles, a grenade launcher, various bombs, and small throwing disks with electric shock and flash bang effects. That's a wide arsenal and any filmmaker can add even more to it.

TWS and IM2 are the two movies in which none of those fights look ridiculous since Widow is fighting normal humans. Having Widow easily slice through the Chitauri or Ultron bots, well it kind of undermines the awesomeness of heroes like Hulk, Thor, and, IM.

[Tazirai]

Maybe Black Widow is best in a supporting role. I've never thought the character was interesting enough to carry their own movie. I feel the same way about Hawkeye.

Love the character, have her figures, and her Hot Toy, but can't see her movie being anything other than female Jason Bourne.
If they used another Heroine for a solo outside of even Captain Marvel i'd be cool.

Damn a Snowbird film would be amazing.

[Jeremi]

For me personally the only Black Widow film I'd be excited for would be one that's called Black Widow and the Winter Guard.

Oh and if said movie was about the Golden Age Black Widow.

[PretenderNX01]

The problem isn't that they're horrible people. The problem--from Marvel's perspective--is whether there are enough of them to justify the cost of a major budget film.

Are there enough of any character's fans to justify a movie? The point of movies is to make fans.

[JimRaynor55]

The problem isn't that they're horrible people. The problem--from Marvel's perspective--is whether there are enough of them to justify the cost of a major budget film.

Lucy made $458 million on a $40 million budget by passing itself off as a Black Widowish movie. That's a bigger gross than the first Captain America movie. Its tiny budget (and Lucy had far more CGI than a Black Widow film actually needs) also made it a much better return on investment than quite a few of the Marvel films.

[JimRaynor55]

For an origin or the beginning of a shared universe yes but after all the heroes have met it just seems like a waste to me.

That's just you then. Everyone else wants more solo movies in addition to big team ups.

They can complain all they want. The difference is I don't make my complaints out to be first world problems are use death threats to defend them lol.a

Be sure to chastise every other fan with a complaint for their "first world problems" as well (because the Third World is the standard we should be satisfied with, right?). Also, death threats come from a few fringe crazies (again, not unique to female fans at all) and are in no way representative of everyone else who wants a BW movie.

Maybe she didn't have any acid, lock picks, or explosives on her?

Because the scene was contrived so she would be alone with Banner and kiss him.

[JimRaynor55]

A movie about a tree and a raccoon is a lot more kid friendly than a spy film.

It was acknowledged as a risk by everyone. It can also be argued that using an established character from a popular movie is safer than going with wacky Z-listers no one had ever heard of.

Guardians introduces the cosmic side of the MCU, which is very important if they're trying to set up Infinity War and Captain Marvel. Marvel just doesn't make movies in a vacuum. They have a story to tell, and the challenge isn't as simple as "would a Black Widow movie work?" Its whether or not a Black Widow movie would work within the story Marvel is trying to tell.

GotG was so essential to the ongoing Marvel storyline that it was one of their most standalone movies to date. That Thanos stuff was extraneous and did not matter. Joss Whedon even said that it was put into the movie to add more connections. James Gunn has said that GotG 2 will be even more standalone and have almost no connection to Infinity War.

Age of Ultron was very standalone despite being hyped as the big milestone turning point. Ant-Man was standalone and mentioned nothing cosmic. Most of the other solo movies too.

The whole Infinity War idea is company hype. The movies all tell their own stories and stand by themselves. The Infinity Stones are basically MacGuffins that could be explained as anything else.

Efforts to create more connections between movies have even resulted in awkward and extraneous scenes - basically Thor's whole plot thread in AoU.

So I don't really buy the whole cosmic idea about why a BW can't be made. Widow doesn't have to be anymore standalone than Ant-Man.

It was a bit ridiculous in the overhead shot of the heroes in AOU to have Widow shooting her tiny pistols at an army of armored robots. I understand its a comic book movie, but c'mon.

Meanwhile, Cap and Hawkeye were fighting robots with medieval weapons. Pistols would be an upgrade for them. They both had guns in previous movies, but their arsenals were actually stripped down for AoU. Clint was shooting regular arrows at the robots without an explosive arrow in sight.

The whole idea of unique individual weapons instead of an assault rifle for everyone is a comic book convention for the sake of fun and variety.