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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kusanagi View Post
    You mean like how no one had ever been Ant Man, before some random guys who had done no heroics like Scott Lang and then Eddie O'Grady (okay he wasn't a hero but still was Ant-Man)? Yet I don't see any PC gone mad for those.
    Lang stole the suit, but Pym was aware of this and followed him along to see why he had stolen it. When he saw the reason why, and that Lang was capable of doing heroics as the Ant-Man, he let him keep the suit. He chose him to become the next Ant-Man, and it was his suit to give.

    O'Grady is another thing altogether. He stole this G.I.Ant-Man suit also, but he went on to be trained in the Initiative. Now I don't remember if this was a condition for him to keep it, but bottom line Pym (well... Skrull-Pym, but whatever) was in charge of the Initiative and therefore could keep an eye on him. If he wasn't behaving correctly I'm pretty sure Hank would have asked him to give the suit back. And it's Eric O'Grady, not Eddie.

    All in all, Marvel didn't kill Hank Pym for those two to become Ant-Man. That's where it hurts.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    I wish there was room for more creativity in these complaints... I remember when I could read the word "PC" and try to decide if I wanted a Dell or a Mac.
    I think the issue is how much work do you want to do in the name of creativity and originality.

    Who do you want to be Robert Kirkman, Erick Lawson & Todd Macfarlane or Hickman, Ewing & Bendis?

    One group can boast ownership over Walking Dead, Invincible, Spawn & Savage Dragon-currently the longest running titles among the big 4 companies. The longest running titles with a minority in the lead.

    Or the group that built up a bunch of guys that they don't own. Yes this group has it easier of sorts but at least the other has more freedom to do whatever.

    One of the Milestone guys bought this up last week-he and Cowans were working on Batman and realized-they were doing all this work to make someone else money.

    It comes down to what you want to do.

    I think that's why Hickman and others decided to leave after Secret Wars. Why would Hickman write an Eli Bradley book (just an example) when he can go to image and make his own version of Eli and do whatever he wanted that couldn't be done with him at Marvel.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Creators aren't given incentives to use new characters other creators came up with. Though I have no idea what incentive could possibly be used for that.
    That's true and to add how many are even allowed to use a character? Eli Bradley anybody?


    Of course the article in question also said Ms. Marvel had been replaced when no one was using the name so maybe he's just an idiot.
    Folks would still go nuts even if that name was not used for years.

    AQUALAD anybody? He becomes a black kid and folks went nuts. The cartoon even provide a reason why he got the name and let Garth stay around. Now both haven't been seen in 4 years.

  4. #34
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    This all may be more context if anything that's the problem.

    Scott Lang needed the suit in order to save someone who could help his daughter. This is rather heroic (despite the whole stealing thing) and thanks to his heroics and the fact he had been established enough by this point, people may not have liked the idea of another Antman but it was in the realm of possibility. Keep in mind as well as by 1979 I don't believe many if at all had been operating with unused identities from Hank Pym by this point. There wasn't as many legacy heroes and Pym had a couple open identities to use.

    Enter Eric O'Grady who mostly lucked into the suit thanks to an accident because he was unqualified. The whole point of Irredeemable Ant man was for Eric to be completely unworthy of being Ant man and people happened to warm up to the guy. As such the complaint as well isn't as valid in this case cause that was not only the point but that Scott had been dead for some time by that point in time that another Ant man wasn't "too soon".

    Even Goliath used the identity in timely manner which as far as I'm aware had build up and establishment.

    I think the bigger problem is that this guy just happened to become Giant Man far too soon after what happened to Pym. It's not like there was a new Giant man comic launching or an appearance outside of Ant man's book or that he had something like Ms Marvel where the name comes from being a fan of the original. Worse yet is that because of Secret Wars currently happening we haven't gotten the chance to see PymTron in action yet outside of Rage of Ultron, so we still don't have a good understanding of what was gained or lost despite the most prominent thing lost being Hank Pym. It's all just too soon and not yet established for this to sit well with Pym fans.
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  5. #35
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    Bill Foster was Giant Man like 35 yrs ago. A woman was Yellowjacket like 25 yrs ago. And Bill's nephew took the Goliath name like maybe 5 yrs ago maybe? It's kinda late to start whining a minority taking one of Hank Pym's old IDs...

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    For me personally, this is irritating because bottom line, Marvel is getting rid of a character to introduce a new one as a legacy character. This time it hit close to home since Pym is my favorite Marvel character. Seeing him get shafted to put forward a new character doesn't work well with me. But that's just my own personal opinion.
    Pym hasn't be removed in order to introduce a new one. A new one's been introduced because Pym's been removed. Remender told the story he wanted to tell, even if his story missed some crucial parts of who Pym actually is as a character, and ignored just about every bit of development the character's actually had, especially in recent years.

    I love Pym, I really do. I like him way more than pretty much any "classic" Avenger. But I have no problem with another character taking over the Giant Man title. The fact that it's a gay Indian-American is even better, and I hope the character catches on. I would love it if he becomes Giant Man permanently, even after Pym comes back. Pym can go back to Yellowjacket. Or he can create yet another identity. Maybe he can go back to just being Dr. Hank Pym, but in a costume.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Bill Foster was Giant Man like 35 yrs ago. A woman was Yellowjacket like 25 yrs ago. And Bill's nephew took the Goliath name like maybe 5 yrs ago maybe? It's kinda late to start whining a minority taking one of Hank Pym's old IDs...
    Bill Foster was Goliath, not Giant-Man. And I know all that. I liked Bill a lot and wished he has been brought back to life. Honestly I would have taken Bill over Lang anytime. Rita was cool and had a nice run with the GotG. I have no problem with that. It's like SuperiorIronman said: it's too soon, and it just plain doesn't make sense. And frankly, it hurts.

    I'm an emotional fan. Sue me

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    All in all, Marvel didn't kill Hank Pym for those two to become Ant-Man. That's where it hurts.
    And they didn't kill Pym to let Raz become Giant Man. Pym was killed off because Remender had a story that ended in a specific way. That ending was basically the whole point of Remender's story - change the ending, and his story simply doesn't work.

    As long as Pym is gone anyway, why not have someone take over his legacy?

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    And they didn't kill Pym to let Raz become Giant Man. Pym was killed off because Remender had a story that ended in a specific way. That ending was basically the whole point of Remender's story - change the ending, and his story simply doesn't work.

    As long as Pym is gone anyway, why not have someone take over his legacy?
    Because giving his identity away, so soon after he's gone, makes it feel like he's never going to come back, like he has nothing to come back to.

    As I said, I'm an emotional fan.

  10. #40
    Rookie Member Nemesis@'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    It doesn't bother me that the new giant man isn't white; what does bother me is;
    1) the costume really needs to be updated. That costume started in the sixties, and I'd like to see something more modern.
    2) I wonder if we're going to see a lot of this guy, and where he'll turn up.
    The costume he's wearing is modern.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    Because giving his identity away, so soon after he's gone, makes it feel like he's never going to come back, like he has nothing to come back to.

    As I said, I'm an emotional fan.
    He will come back in a decade.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwenFan View Post
    He will come back in a decade.
    If this is sarcasm, it's really not nice of you.

    Even if it's not, I hope you're wrong.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    If this is sarcasm, it's really not nice of you.

    Even if it's not, I hope you're wrong.

    Well he is going to be UltronPym for awhile.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    Bill Foster was Goliath, not Giant-Man. And I know all that. I liked Bill a lot and wished he has been brought back to life. Honestly I would have taken Bill over Lang anytime. Rita was cool and had a nice run with the GotG. I have no problem with that. It's like SuperiorIronman said: it's too soon, and it just plain doesn't make sense. And frankly, it hurts.

    I'm an emotional fan. Sue me


    As far as "Too soon"? Well, I dunno...it's comics.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    Because giving his identity away, so soon after he's gone, makes it feel like he's never going to come back, like he has nothing to come back to.

    As I said, I'm an emotional fan.
    Yeah, he'll be back. I'd give it maybe two years before there's a big event with the return of Pymtron. (Not to be confused with Pimptron.) That story will either end with Pym separating from Ultron, or with him dying. If he dies, then he'll return 2-5 years after that.

    But he'll definitely be back eventually. Marvel doesn't keep any of its classic characters out of commission for that long. Pym's a straight white male created in the '60s - he will never stay dead.

    And in the meantime, we get something different. And quite honestly, much as I'd love to see Raz become a popular character, he won't. He's a new gay character of colour. The odds of him actually getting any serious push is pretty much nil. He'll be used in a couple stories, maybe be added to the cast of a team book that lasts a year, and then he'll drop into limbo.

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