Is there no room for originality anymore at Marvel? (spoilers for the Ant-Man Annual via article connection)

[Derek Metaltron]

I can only speak for myself, but I generally don't latch onto new characters AT ALL. There's a couple of reasons for this: pretty much every comic book writer eventually creates their own personal character that only they themselves find a use for. Once they stop writing the character, no other writer picks them up again because they're busy writing their own made up characters. This leads us to a crap-load of "one-hit wonders' which evidently not many fans feel are are worth the investment. You could also argue that a many of these characters are not very well conceived to begin with, which is why they don't stick around.
Also, if I was offered some closure on characters I'm currently following, maybe I'd give newer characters a try. Here's a dumb metaphor: let's say Marvel (or any comic book company) is a restaurant, and the characters are the dishes they offer. Now me, I'm eating the filet mignon, I don't want the waiter to shove BBQ ribs, sushi, tacos, and fried rice at my face until I've finished what I have. The problem is, the filet mignon never ends, so I never have the time or inclination to try the other stuff. So that's my take on it

Pretty much this, it's always the issue legacy characters or new characters not directly tied to a specific renowned hero have which if you're a fan of them usually results in disappointment.

[neohuey89]

Cosmic Book News needs to lay off the salt or they're going to need blood pressure medication. All this "PC this, PC that, rarrrh!" stuff is getting old.

taking all the jobs, breathing up all the silver age man's air.

[Double 0]

I wish there was room for more creativity in these complaints... I remember when I could read the word "PC" and try to decide if I wanted a Dell or a Mac.

Seriously. These tears are so salty.


Oh and Cmbmool, to answer your question, if Marvel would actually provide the economic incentive for creators to make new characters, you'd see plenty more.

They don't, so most new characters are created in the Indies.

[Cmbmool]

OMG, someone took one of Hank Pyms hundred secret identities. Ask Rita Demara and Bill Foster how that worked out. Do you guys really understand what you sound like when you complain about PC this and PC that. Hopefully, this new character will end up like Scott Lang, and not like the rest of Hank's legacy characters.

Didn't Scott Lang also DIED ?

So shouldn't it be almost everyone who taken one of Hank's previous ID just ended up dead in one way or another ?

[Cmbmool]

To be fair, the Giant-Man mantle was open with Hank Pym being presumed dead while merged with Ultron. Honestly I don't really find this to be all that bad an idea since it creates a LGBT character and puts them in a position for the comic readership to get to know him and possibly build up notoriety. In time he could grow to become his own hero rather than just a legacy character. As far as progressive moves go, this is a good way to go about it rather than sidelining another hero or retconning their sexuality.

Yet what's going to occur when, and you know this might happen, Hank returns ?

[Cmbmool]

I think Ant-Man should keep the Giant Man name. When he's big he can be Giant Man, and when he's small he can be Ant Man. The fact that the name Giant Man has Ant Man in it just works for me.

They can always name the new guy Goliath.

That said, there's like a 50% fatality rate for people who take on Pym identities, so I'm not entirely sure why anyone would want to be Giant Man. And it almost makes sense than there is when your power is essentially to become the biggest target on the field.

Don't you recall what happen to the previous Goliath ?

[Kurolegacy]

Yet what's going to occur when, and you know this might happen, Hank returns ?

That all depends on how things go for this character by that point. Should he have good reception, I could see him either keeping the name or taking on a mantle of his own. After all, while Hank Pym was the original Ant-Man, he's certainly not the only one there's been. The same thing could happen with Giant-Man.

[Kusanagi]

How can you replace something that's not being used, when was the last time Hank even went by Giant Man? Of course the article in question also said Ms. Marvel had been replaced when no one was using the name so maybe he's just an idiot.

edit: Whoops seems he was Giant Man again semi recently, though in my defense it is REALLY hard to keep track with Hank.

[SuperiorIronman]

How can you replace something that's not being used, when was the last time Hank even went by Giant Man? Of course the article in question also said Ms. Marvel had been replaced when no one was using the name so maybe he's just an idiot.

Right before merging with Ultron dude. He was using it right up to the point he became part of Ultron. And despite being Yellow Jacket in Time runs out he has been Giant Man as recently as the heroic age.

This does not bode well for the replacement. I mean Darren Cross has a movie if he becomes Yellow Jacket so he's safe, but many of the replacements have not had a good track record. Also wasn't Goliath an open identity? I know Thomas Foster was using it but he is a villain who as far as I'm aware hasn't been seen since the Revengers stuff. So what happens when continuity catches up and Hank finds out about this?

[Tiamatty]

Seriously. These tears are so salty.


Oh and Cmbmool, to answer your question, if Marvel would actually provide the economic incentive for creators to make new characters, you'd see plenty more.

They don't, so most new characters are created in the Indies.

Creators do make new characters. And then as soon as those creators move on to a book where their new characters wouldn't fit, those characters disappear. The problem might actually be the opposite: Creators aren't given incentives to use new characters other creators came up with. Though I have no idea what incentive could possibly be used for that.


Edit: I just read the article. He repeats the tired old "what would happen if a minority character got replaced by a white guy?" argument, which misses the point that there are so few minority characters as it is, while there are still tons and tons of straight white male characters.

But here's the question I would have for guys like this who bitch and moan about Marvel not making "new" characters: If the new Giant Man was another straight white male, would this guy have a problem with that? I'm guessing not.

I will admit, though, there's a part of me that actually kinda wants Marvel to unveil a new White Tiger who's actually white, just to see if these jackasses would take issue with that, too. Or even better, with Sam Wilson currently serving as Captain America, how great would it be if a white guy took over as Falcon for a little while? And then these people would have no choice but to actually argue in favour of diversity for once, instead of always bitching about it. Because, of course, it seems like the people who whine about "PC" and "create new characters" aren't usually big on actually advocating for diversity otherwise. I mean, the guy who wrote that article, has he ever suggested Marvel should hire more minority creators? Are there any minority-led titles that he's been a big proponent of? Or minority characters he's pushed?

People are tired of minority characters replacing white characters? Then support existing minority characters. How many of the people bitching picked up Mighty Avengers? Based on the sales, I'd guess very, very few. I'm betting Ultimates will have low sales, even though none of the minority characters are replacing any white guys. You've got a cast that includes Black Panther - Marvel's first black superhero, Monica Rambeau - a classic black superheroine, Blue Marvel and Ms. America - two new minority characters, and Captain Marvel - a classic superheroine. Isn't this exactly what the people bitching about "PC" think Marvel should be doing? So when do you think Cosmic Book News will actually get around to talking about it? They seem to never miss a single chance to bitch about "PC police," so surely - surely - they'll be glad to talk about a book that does diversity in such a way that, presumably, they would approve of? Unless the fact that it's minority-majority is more proof of Marvel's "PC agenda." Wouldn't surprise me at all if the guy has that attitude. He probably thinks the book should be four white guys, a white woman and Black Panther.

[Kusanagi]

Right before merging with Ultron dude. He was using it right up to the point he became part of Ultron. And despite being Yellow Jacket in Time runs out he has been Giant Man as recently as the heroic age.

Yeah I edited, but that sentence right there that makes the outrage laughable. Hank's been bouncing between the names Ant-man, Giant man, Yellowjacket and more recently Wasp *shudder* that the idea that he's being replaced when someone uses one of them comes across as nuts.

[Mary Jay]

How can you replace something that's not being used, when was the last time Hank even went by Giant Man? Of course the article in question also said Ms. Marvel had been replaced when no one was using the name so maybe he's just an idiot.

Hank Pym has been Giant-Man since Avengers Academy #7 published in Dec 2010. He continued throughout the run which ended at #36, was shown in AvX, Avengers A.I., Infinity: The Hunt, several issues of Daredevil, and others which I won't list at the moment. Recently he's been officially MIA in Rage of Ultron, as Giant-Man, and apparently the other Avengers have decided to consider him dead because they're such good friends that they never thought it could be a good thing to, oh I don't know... go after him and try to help him. But I digress.

This doesn't prove or deny that the person who wrote this article is an idiot though

For me personally, this is irritating because bottom line, Marvel is getting rid of a character to introduce a new one as a legacy character. This time it hit close to home since Pym is my favorite Marvel character. Seeing him get shafted to put forward a new character doesn't work well with me. But that's just my own personal opinion.

I find it very hard to discuss this without being accused of sexism, or racism, or hating on the LGBT. I like Steve Rogers, Thor Odinson and Hank Pym, and hate seeing them shoved aside for the sake of diversity. Why couldn't we have both? Keep the characters we've loved for decades AND introduce new ones. I guess that's what the author of the article meant, but it came out very clumsily...

[SuperiorIronman]

Yeah I edited, but that sentence right there that makes the outrage laughable. Hank's been bouncing between the names Ant-man, Giant man, Yellowjacket and more recently Wasp *shudder* that the idea that he's being replaced when someone uses one of them comes across as nuts.

It is nuts for some people. Apparently he was only YJ during Time runs out because whomever was writing or doing the art just wanted to use YJ. It's never given an explanation.

[Mary Jay]

Yeah I edited, but that sentence right there that makes the outrage laughable. Hank's been bouncing between the names Ant-man, Giant man, Yellowjacket and more recently Wasp *shudder* that the idea that he's being replaced when someone uses one of them comes across as nuts.

Eh... no. He hasn't 'bounced' between anything lately. He has been the Wasp for a time during his Mighty Avengers run and at the beginning of Av. Academy, and that was right after Secret Invasion, so not recently at all.

And the thing is NOBODY has ever been Giant-Man except for Hank. It's always been the sole identity that no one has taken up on. There have been several Goliaths, but never another Giant-Man. And now, some random guy who hasn't done ANY heroics, has been given the suit. I find this nuts.

[Kusanagi]

You mean like how no one had ever been Ant Man, before some random guys who had done no heroics like Scott Lang and then Eddie O'Grady (okay he wasn't a hero but still was Ant-Man)? Yet I don't see any PC gone mad for those.