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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Ah. I said "watch" but I forgot the anime would have weird stuff like that. But this doesn't go by canon, so fair enough.
    Well, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to use the Kaio-Ken as a Super Saiyan. It's not a transformation, it's a momentary technique that he improves over time, and by the time of the Cell Games where he's mastered the Super Saiyan form to where it no longer drains him, he should be able to use them in conjunction (he did for a single attack against Pikkon, calling it the 'Super Kaio-Ken' but it left him drained) and to much higher degrees of multiplication. And I've read (most of) the manga as well; actually, what I haven't seen on the show I've read in the manga, and vice-versa.
    Last edited by Dispenser Of Truth; 07-18-2015 at 09:44 PM.
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  2. #17
    Missing Nin Sasuke Uchiha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    You know, watching a replay of the **********, and how the crowd was strongly partisan for Goku, I wonder if Superman just doesn't appeal to younger generations anymore.

    Still, Go Supes!

    EDIT: Weird, it got blocked by the CBR filters. Anyway, the asterisked out phrase was "live" [pause] "stream."
    I was thinking the same thing as I watched it, when they started talking about Super Saiyan God form and Super Saiyan God Form Super Saiyan (by the way i seriously think any person with a transformation thats called that should lose all the time, it sounds way to silly.) people went bonkers, a little part of my pride in something that is as American as Apple Pie just died a little, and I obviously like anime/manga, but damn what is it about Superman that turns people off to him so much. People calling him boring, or not much of a character, you should have seen the facebook threads, the salt levels could dry up the ocean.
    And now I finally arrived.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke Uchiha View Post
    I was thinking the same thing as I watched it, when they started talking about Super Saiyan God form and Super Saiyan God Form Super Saiyan (by the way i seriously think any person with a transformation thats called that should lose all the time, it sounds way to silly.) people went bonkers, a little part of my pride in something that is as American as Apple Pie just died a little, and I obviously like anime/manga, but damn what is it about Superman that turns people off to him so much. People calling him boring, or not much of a character, you should have seen the facebook threads, the salt levels could dry up the ocean.
    From what I understand, even the actual Death Battle creators hate Superman, though to their credit they still felt they had to give him the win based on their results.
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  4. #19
    Incredible Member kivatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke Uchiha View Post
    I was thinking the same thing as I watched it, when they started talking about Super Saiyan God form and Super Saiyan God Form Super Saiyan (by the way i seriously think any person with a transformation thats called that should lose all the time, it sounds way to silly.) people went bonkers, a little part of my pride in something that is as American as Apple Pie just died a little, and I obviously like anime/manga, but damn what is it about Superman that turns people off to him so much. People calling him boring, or not much of a character, you should have seen the facebook threads, the salt levels could dry up the ocean.
    Can you link me to those?

    The reason people don't like Superman is because they see him as only being OP. And never read a comic in their life before. He's not edgy enough for them to like. Because he's actually a good person with a lot of character depth behind him. Instead of being brooding, and full angst, he's a person that just always is going to do the right things, and wants to be an example for the potential of human goodness.

    People don't like that.


    Some youtuber forneverworld called Goku a better developed character than Superman. I almost cried out of laughter

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    For the record, the actual best Goku/Superman fight.

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  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Xalfrea's Avatar
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    The sad part is that this only settles it as far as Death Battle's mechanics are concerned. When people bring other factors, and have other things that are grossly out of character (like Goku using Kryptonite), it'll still go any other way.

    I think people need to rethink their stances if they want their characters to win so much that they deliberately go against the established elements. At least they upped the animation in this one. Definitely looked better and dynamic.

  7. #22
    Missing Nin Sasuke Uchiha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kivatt View Post
    Can you link me to those?

    The reason people don't like Superman is because they see him as only being OP. And never read a comic in their life before. He's not edgy enough for them to like. Because he's actually a good person with a lot of character depth behind him. Instead of being brooding, and full angst, he's a person that just always is going to do the right things, and wants to be an example for the potential of human goodness.

    People don't like that.


    Some youtuber forneverworld called Goku a better developed character than Superman. I almost cried out of laughter
    the facebook thread in question is a private group, but if you want to see the fight, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0D0VGomWb4
    And now I finally arrived.

  8. #23

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    I love Death Battle. These guys find the kind of data on characters that nobody else can. And the Superman/Goku battle was as thorough as anyone could hope to get. But I get the sense that a lot of Dragonball fans didn't like how they calculated Goku's stats. I can understand that frustration, but I don't see how there's a more accurate way to do it. And even if there were, Superman's stats are insane. The man can survive supernovas and move planets. Even on his best day, I don't think Goku could defeat him, not unless he exploited his weaknesses. But Goku doesn't do that. As the first Death Battle said, he's not very bright. He's not a genius the way Superman is. Even with a new god-like state, I don't think he can match Superman. But like I said, the Death Battle guys tend to find data that others can't. So we'll have to wait and see.
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  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    So....who won?

  10. #25
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    I love Death Battle. These guys find the kind of data on characters that nobody else can. And the Superman/Goku battle was as thorough as anyone could hope to get. But I get the sense that a lot of Dragonball fans didn't like how they calculated Goku's stats. I can understand that frustration, but I don't see how there's a more accurate way to do it. And even if there were, Superman's stats are insane. The man can survive supernovas and move planets. Even on his best day, I don't think Goku could defeat him, not unless he exploited his weaknesses. But Goku doesn't do that. As the first Death Battle said, he's not very bright. He's not a genius the way Superman is. Even with a new god-like state, I don't think he can match Superman. But like I said, the Death Battle guys tend to find data that others can't. So we'll have to wait and see.
    Well, outside of combat, yes, but as far as fighting goes, he's considered a tactical genius.
    That being said, it doesn't change anything. Because the reason Goku fights people is to test his limits against strong opponents. He wouldn't want to beat a weakened Superman,he would want to face him at his stongest so that he could actually improve fighting him.
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  11. #26
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Which is why I understand the idea of making it look one sided, Goku has been fighting as a full time plus job since he was a young kid, it's all he's ever done. SO any version capable of actually hurting Superman would hurt him badly.

    I did like the animation a whole lot. I thought it was dumb that Superman of all people had to tell Goku to avoid damaging the planet in a fight, but oh well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Well, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to use the Kaio-Ken as a Super Saiyan. It's not a transformation, it's a momentary technique that he improves over time, and by the time of the Cell Games where he's mastered the Super Saiyan form to where it no longer drains him, he should be able to use them in conjunction (he did for a single attack against Pikkon, calling it the 'Super Kaio-Ken' but it left him drained) and to much higher degrees of multiplication. And I've read (most of) the manga as well; actually, what I haven't seen on the show I've read in the manga, and vice-versa.
    SS was intended as a power up to make it obsolete, so the additional strain was unnecessary. Especially considering the strain of SS3, the last real power up. Kaio ken was abandoned in canon completely. But again, this seems to go by anime continuity and SA Superman, despite the fact that Bronze Age was stated to be less powerful and he has not been anywhere close in succeeding continuities.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Overhazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke Uchiha View Post
    I was thinking the same thing as I watched it, when they started talking about Super Saiyan God form and Super Saiyan God Form Super Saiyan (by the way i seriously think any person with a transformation thats called that should lose all the time, it sounds way to silly.) people went bonkers, a little part of my pride in something that is as American as Apple Pie just died a little, and I obviously like anime/manga, but damn what is it about Superman that turns people off to him so much. People calling him boring, or not much of a character, you should have seen the facebook threads, the salt levels could dry up the ocean.
    I saw the death battle and it made sense to me. I like both characters, and I don't think they would fight if they met each other.

    People don't like Superman because they see him as a boring, overpowered boy scout, who is totally unrelatable. Even though he's not. He's viewed as being part of the establishment, even though he's always stood up for the downtrodden, and he grew up on a farm. He does the right thing not out of guilt, angst, or a desire for glory, he does the right thing because it's the right thing to do. He's not overly macho, he's willing to listen to others opinions. Some see that as sanctimonious.

    These are the same folk that say Batman and 80% of Marvel is relatable.
    Last edited by Overhazard; 07-19-2015 at 01:12 PM.

  13. #28
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    That guy had the most annoying voice possible.

    In other terms? How the hell can Goku beat Superman? Isn't Superman the dude who could blow up the universe if he didn't learn how to contain his burps?

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    SS was intended as a power up to make it obsolete, so the additional strain was unnecessary. Especially considering the strain of SS3, the last real power up. Kaio ken was abandoned in canon completely. But again, this seems to go by anime continuity and SA Superman, despite the fact that Bronze Age was stated to be less powerful and he has not been anywhere close in succeeding continuities.
    Clark's actually pretty close now. Superman's been gaining power consistently since the reboot. Starts off at Golden Age power levels, leaping tall buildings. Ends up at a roughly post-Crisis level by the time Morrison leaves, putting him at about where he was in the previous continuity. Then Lobdell comes in with the idea that Clark's been training so he can stand up against Helspont and we get a Superman who can bench press the world for five days straight and only shed one single drop of sweat. That's pretty Silver Age powerful right there, just without the silly powers like being able to shoot miniature Superman from his hands, or the infamous Super-Kiss. And then Johns brought in the idea of the super nova, adding a powerful area of effect ability to Clark's arsenal. And its already been established (by Romita I believe?) that he's learning/learned how to channel it so his power drain isnt as severe. So Clark might not be quite at Silver Age levels, but he's not that far off either.

    Granted, the current TRUTH story has depowered him but that's not going to last.
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  15. #30
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Death Battle used all things Superman Post-Crisis. That means pre- and post-Flashpoint. They also limited things to the most absurd accomplishments by Superman, because they limit their stuff to the characters' greatest potential. That's why they disregarded Superman's death to Doomsday, because the comics imply or directly state that he grew in power since then.

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