Goku Vs. Superman 2

[Dispenser Of Truth]

SS was intended as a power up to make it obsolete, so the additional strain was unnecessary. Especially considering the strain of SS3, the last real power up. Kaio ken was abandoned in canon completely.
But again, this seems to go by anime continuity and SA Superman, despite the fact that Bronze Age was stated to be less powerful and he has not been anywhere close in succeeding continuities.

Even setting aside its one appearance post-Frieza in the anime, there's still no reason he shouldn't be able to use the Kaio-Ken as a Super Saiyan, it would just be impractical most of the time because it's only a momentary power-up that would probably leave him drained. And their stats for Goku only seem to go by the anime in terms of Super Saiyan 4 being allowed in the original fight; the weight-lifting/crossing of Snake Way were both in the original manga. Superman's feats are actually all post-Crisis, albeit, as DochaDocha said, the very biggest stuff they could find.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

That guy had the most annoying voice possible.

Boomstick? Yeah. It's astonishing seeing him behind the scenes and realizing he actually talks like a real, perfectly normal and pleasant human being most of the time.

[Kal-El Summers]

Never understand why anybody uses that stupid 40 tons gag scene when Goku, up to that point and afterward, had the best strength feats of the entire manga(picking up giant King Piccolo and kicking Frieza through two islands on Namek). It doesn't put him anywhere near the same galaxy as Superman, but he's not really a slouch in the strength department.

[Kuwagaton]

Clark's actually pretty close now.

Death Battle used all things Superman Post-Crisis. That means pre- and post-Flashpoint. They also limited things to the most absurd accomplishments by Superman, because they limit their stuff to the characters' greatest potential. That's why they disregarded Superman's death to Doomsday, because the comics imply or directly state that he grew in power since then.

I still wouldn't say he's able to time travel under his own power or anything.

I don't remember them saying how much he actually grew after Doomsday, only that he wasn't particularly limited like he was Post Crisis. But I think aside from spanking Mongul he was the same in application against the same characters. Still was under J'onn.

And their stats for Goku only seem to go by the anime in terms of Super Saiyan 4 being allowed in the original fight; the weight-lifting/crossing of Snake Way were both in the original manga. Superman's feats are actually all post-Crisis, albeit, as DochaDocha said, the very biggest stuff they could find.

Anything beyond 3 wasn't in the manga, so "God" is basically the same as SS4 in validity. And again I know they're not limiting themselves to manga. However, if you're going to count the new manga and SGSS while keeping Superman at Post Crisis... yikes. I think SA Superman still wins most scenarios and Post/FP tie SS3. But a form of Goku that beats Bills can likely hang with the Spectre.

[Ascended]

I still wouldn't say he's able to time travel under his own power or anything.

Like I said, he doesnt have the limitless list of ridiculous powers, like the Super-Kiss and Super-Hypnotism and being able to shoot mini Supermen from his hands. But as far as sheer strength goes? He's pretty close. Moving a planet's weight for five days without a break and only one drop of sweat? Surviving a black hole and two months in deep space (assuming Convergence didnt do something to that, I didnt read it so I dont know). That's pretty damned Silver Age, even if its not on par with the silliest and most powerful showings of the era.

Ultimately though, its largely a moot point. It's saying that instead of having a Strength of "X" its "X+". We're well beyond the point where it matters arent we? Superman's as strong as he needs to be.

[Kuwagaton]

Yeah, but that really describes this whole thing. Even if we got an official fight between the two, it's still utterly imaginary and wouldn't be governed by any real fact or law. If a writer decided The Batman could kick Superman in the stomach and make him breathe in knockout gas, even if he doesn't actually need to breathe, it will happen. Which is why I don't agree with trying to calculate the fight at all, there's no official consistency. I respect the effort put in, but if one went back to '60s Binder or '70s Maggin with calculations, they wouldn't have a clue what that person was talking about. Toriyama just has the one story and even he can't tell you what's what.

All I was saying in addressing you is that from what we see, this Superman isn't that Superman. Maybe he's as strong, if every writer and editor would agree on such a thing, but if he doesn't have everything the same then it wouldn't play out the same. I think SA Superman has a strong enough case for being unbeatable here, but less doesn't go as far.

With the fight at large, I disagree with anything implying "infinite power" because Superman has shown time and again difficulty in dealing with particularly tough alien opponents, and I think Goku qualifies.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Well this was a total shocker right? Ha. As much as I love Goku, Supes was always going to be the winner.

[Cosmic Spider]

I've only watched DBZ and a few of the movies on Adult Swim, So my knowledge is far from complete.

So, Umm... Goku teleports Superman and Himself to a planet orbiting a Red Sun VIA Instantaneous Transmission. Goku then uses his abilities defensively, Conserving his energy while Big Blue wears Himself out. Goku finishes Superman off. Afterwards, Goku gives Supes a Senzu Bean because Goku is just that type of guy.

Years later, Gohan marries Supergirl; Leading to the birth of the Mythological, Ultra-Legendary, Hyper-Super Krypto-Saiyan.

[Auguste Dupin]

Goku teleports Superman and Himself to a planet orbiting a Red Sun VIA Instantaneous Transmission. Goku then uses his abilities defensively, Conserving his energy while Big Blue wears Himself out. Goku finishes Superman off.

Out of character. All of it. Even assuming Goku knows Superman gets his power from the Sun, he would never settle for a weakened Superman when he could fight him at his peak.
Plus, I'm pretty certain that Goku's teleportation doesn't work like that. He can't just appear anywhere he wants, he needs to use someone's ki as a beacon. In short, he doesn't teleport in a location, but next to someone else.

[Cosmic Spider]

Out of character. All of it. Even assuming Goku knows Superman gets his power from the Sun, he would never settle for a weakened Superman when he could fight him at his peak.

Figuring out how to defeat your opponent is basic to the concept of winning a fight. Taking advantage of the environment is a perfectly legitimate strategy; As is discovering and capitalizing upon an opponents weaknesses'. Also, Most of Goku's fights are endurance matches anyway; With both sides wearing down the other till one Party is able to achieve a Victory.

Plus, I'm pretty certain that Goku's teleportation doesn't work like that. He can't just appear anywhere he wants, he needs to use someone's ki as a beacon. In short, he doesn't teleport in a location, but next to someone else.

Like I said, Not an expert. I just thought it was a cool idea so I threw it out there.

[Auguste Dupin]

Figuring out how to defeat your opponent is basic to the concept of winning a fight. Taking advantage of the environment is a perfectly legitimate strategy; As is discovering and capitalizing upon an opponents weaknesses'. Also, Most of Goku's fights are endurance matches anyway; With both sides wearing down the other till one Party is able to achieve a Victory.

It's not about the strategy not being legitimate. It's about why Goku fights people.
The reason why Goku became a martial artist is because he enjoys testing his limits against strong opponents. To him, it's a pleasure in itself for which he has put the world in danger on a number of occasions. In a way, when fighting other fighters, it's as much about himself than it is about the other guy. Goku will want to fight Superman at his strongest because he will want to test himself against him. Long story short, a weakened Superman Goku can easily overpower isn't an interesting opponent for him, while a Superman who surpasses him in every way would be like Christmas for him, because it's a challenge.

[CowGirl]

I've only watched DBZ and a few of the movies on Adult Swim, So my knowledge is far from complete.

So, Umm... Goku teleports Superman and Himself to a planet orbiting a Red Sun VIA Instantaneous Transmission. Goku then uses his abilities defensively, Conserving his energy while Big Blue wears Himself out. Goku finishes Superman off. Afterwards, Goku gives Supes a Senzu Bean because Goku is just that type of guy.

Years later, Gohan marries Supergirl; Leading to the birth of the Mythological, Ultra-Legendary, Hyper-Super Krypto-Saiyan.

In that moment Superman realizes that Goku is a danger to the Universe. A guy who likes to fight and destroy planets just to prove his strength is a threat that must be erradicated. Then he goes through the red sun while fighting Goku, who dies incinerated while Superman continue his journey til he find a yellow/blue sun.

[DochaDocha]

This raises a question about the rules of death battle: are the characters fighting at win-at-all-costs? Already fighting to the death is largely out of character for Superman, so if you talked about having the characters stay within character, Superman's at a disadvantage in a battle to the death because you could argue that there's only like a 2.794% chance he would willingly kill the other guy.

[Ascended]

With the fight at large, I disagree with anything implying "infinite power" because Superman has shown time and again difficulty in dealing with particularly tough alien opponents, and I think Goku qualifies.

Goku would likely be as tough an opponent as Superman has ever fought, I'd imagine. Goku's an infinitely better fighter, and unlike most comic book martial artists, is accustomed to fighting on a level where things like gravity, solid objects, and physics start to become suggestions and not actual rules. And while he doesnt have the raw strength or durability, his energy manipulation makes up for a lot.

I watched DBZ back in the day, and whichever version it was where Goku learns SS4 and gets turned back into a kid (except when he's SS4 for some reason), but Im far from an expert on the character. But I always thought that he'd prove a real challenge to a post-Crisis Superman. Odds would still favor the Last Son of Krypton, but Goku would still have a solid enough chance of winning. Anything close to Silver Age and its a different story though. That Superman is just a pure beast.

But yeah, when characters are written as inconsistently as comic and anime/manga characters typically are......these sorts of things really dont matter.

[Sacred Knight]

Do these games take canonicty into account? If so SSJ4 would have to be out, With Dragonball Super though, Superman would have Super Saiyan God to worry about it in its place.

And I say that all in the interest of this being fun, not serious business.