Felicia's "Not So Secret" Identity

[Bertone]

A fan asked Slott this on Twitter....

"Why is Felicia pissed about her identity being "outed" when her identity has been a matter of public record since the 80s"

Slott replies...

"You play the ball where it was last left on the field. During the BND run, Mark G did a story where her ID had 2 be kept secret. Continuity's a minefield. After 50 yrs of stories, there are multiple stories for every subject to be played 1 way or the other. For example: Can Spidey run up a wall while wearing shoes? Do you need super human strength to use a web-shooter? What war did Flash Thompson fight in? Was the Coffee Bean above or below ground? What street's the Bugle on? I can find you tons of stories that contradict AND prove either side. In the end, it's what best serves the story at hand. Not what you want to hear, but that's the truth of the matter."

I actually remember Mark G giving Felicia a SECOND secret identity because she couldn't be anonymous as Felicia Hardy due to her identity being known.

What are your thoughts on Felicia's identity? Should it be brushed off as "just comics" or is it a status quo that should be remembered...

Things worth noting...

1) She attempted a secret identity in the 90's (although her identity was already public) while dating Flash Thompson. Flash later revealed he knew all along because he reads the newspaper.


2) While the ASM relaunch implies Felicia's identity is revealed for the first time, it never outright STATES it. It can be worked around.

My take
While her identity is public, I don't think Felicia is a famous enough figure that most strangers would see her and realize she's the Black Cat. That said if one was to Google her they would find out. It has depended on the story.

I don't think her identity being public comparable with "what war Flash fought in" or "what street is the Bugle on". If a writer is doing a Black Cat story, they should know if her identity is public or not.

[cyberhubbs]

Not sure how many people really know Felicia got outed. It's not usually a big point of interest when the character shows up.

I haven't read the new run yet, mostly due to a current trade-purchasing attitude. But I do remember Felicia working for the Mayor's office under a new identity, something that didn't come up much at all after that specific story. So it might just be her new identity that gets outed, unless otherwise already stated.

[Bertone]

Not sure how many people really know Felicia got outed. It's not usually a big point of interest when the character shows up.

I haven't read the new run yet, mostly due to a current trade-purchasing attitude. But I do remember Felicia working for the Mayor's office under a new identity, something that didn't come up much at all after that specific story. So it might just be her new identity that gets outed, unless otherwise already stated.

The implication in the story was that her real identity got outed. Although it wasn't outright stated. That's the assumption Slott and Twitter guy seemed to be working under.

When Felicia was paling around with Peter's friends in the 90's, Harry and Liz didn't seem to take notice of the fact that they were having dinner parties with the Black Cat...even when she showed up to a costume party in her Black Cat outfit.

It's public record, but most likely a record you'd have to look up. Like Jay Z's real last name.

[Keeper of the Crows]

A fan asked Slott this on Twitter....

Slott replies...



I actually remember Mark G giving Felicia a SECOND secret identity because she couldn't be anonymous as Felicia Hardy due to her identity being known.

What are your thoughts on Felicia's identity? Should it be brushed off as "just comics" or is it a status quo that should be remembered...

Things worth noting...

1) She attempted a secret identity in the 90's (although her identity was already public) while dating Flash Thompson. Flash later revealed he knew all along because he reads the newspaper.


2) While the ASM relaunch implies Felicia's identity is revealed for the first time, it never outright STATES it. It can be worked around.

My take
While her identity is public, I don't think Felicia is a famous enough figure that most strangers would see her and realize she's the Black Cat. That said if one was to Google her they would find out. It has depended on the story.

I don't think her identity being public comparable with "what war Flash fought in" or "what street is the Bugle on". If a writer is doing a Black Cat story, they should know if her identity is public or not.

You raise a very fascinating and interesting question. Kudos!

On one hand, I have a great deal of sympathy for any writer working in comics with so many years of continuity. In the case of Spider-Man, there are hundreds of issues of Amazing, not to mention satellite titles, miniseries, and spinoffs.

I’ve also enjoyed a lot of Slott’s work, especially the Spider-Man/Human Torch miniseries and his Big Time and Superior runs on the title. He seems to have a genuine love and passion for the character and they mythos.

But I will say that sometimes it appears that his application of continuity is subversive. Or at least, he decides what continuity is important (Marla Jameson helping to build spider slayers) versus “continuity is a minefield” (Daniel Kingsley’s super strength). Sometimes I suspect this is based on what Spider-Man stories he enjoys and prefers himself. But as the writer, I guess it’s his prerogative to play with established continuity in order to create the status quo he wants to tell stories from, even if it’s frustrating to those of us who are continuity-minded.

For me anyway, sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. I enjoy Slott’s fast pacing, his out-of-the-box storytelling, and the enthusiasm he brings to the character. So I can overlook occasionally hammy dialogue or selective use of continuity, unless it’s particularly egregious.

[Punisher007]

I wouldn't mind it as much if they weren't using it to make her into this incredibly stereotypical villain-esque character. It makes her look like an idiot for not realizing that the guy who attacked her in SSM wasn't "her" Spidey, or at least that there was something seriously wrong with him. And THIS is the justification to have her go borderline psychotic. It makes her look petty as well as stupid. That's pretty much the most clichéd, uninteresting, uninspired, and downright insulting thing that they could possibly do. It's just another example of Marvel mishandling her badly post-OMD. And because this whole set-up is so bad, you cannot help but remember that her identity was already public knowledge back in the 80's, so it makes even less sense.

[Captain Haddock]

I just assume that it is on record that Black Cat= Felicia Hardy but no-one particularly cares who Felicia is - you want a thief, you hire The Character not The Civilian Identity. John Q Public would probably be able to go look it up at any time but have no particular reason to think perhaps this girl is secretly a costumed hero/villain/antieither, so they don't... unless prodded.

[cyberhubbs]

I wouldn't mind it as much if they weren't using it to make her into this incredibly stereotypical villain-esque character. It makes her look like an idiot for not realizing that the guy who attacked her in SSM wasn't "her" Spidey, or at least that there was something seriously wrong with him. And THIS is the justification to have her go borderline psychotic. It makes her look petty as well as stupid. That's pretty much the most clichéd, uninteresting, uninspired, and downright insulting thing that they could possibly do. It's just another example of Marvel mishandling her badly post-OMD. And because this whole set-up is so bad, you cannot help but remember that her identity was already public knowledge back in the 80's, so it makes even less sense.

'Cause Peter has never acted weird and still been Peter.

[cyberhubbs]

You raise a very fascinating and interesting question. Kudos!

On one hand, I have a great deal of sympathy for any writer working in comics with so many years of continuity. In the case of Spider-Man, there are hundreds of issues of Amazing, not to mention satellite titles, miniseries, and spinoffs.

I’ve also enjoyed a lot of Slott’s work, especially the Spider-Man/Human Torch miniseries and his Big Time and Superior runs on the title. He seems to have a genuine love and passion for the character and they mythos.

But I will say that sometimes it appears that his application of continuity is subversive. Or at least, he decides what continuity is important (Marla Jameson helping to build spider slayers) versus “continuity is a minefield” (Daniel Kingsley’s super strength). Sometimes I suspect this is based on what Spider-Man stories he enjoys and prefers himself. But as the writer, I guess it’s his prerogative to play with established continuity in order to create the status quo he wants to tell stories from, even if it’s frustrating to those of us who are continuity-minded.

For me anyway, sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. I enjoy Slott’s fast pacing, his out-of-the-box storytelling, and the enthusiasm he brings to the character. So I can overlook occasionally hammy dialogue or selective use of continuity, unless it’s particularly egregious.

Well...yeah. Most writers, especially after 50 years, are gonna get a little pick-and-choosy with continuity. You only use ALL continuity when you wanna do something crazy like Morrison did with Batman. Even Grant knew it was gonna be weird.

[RobertMacQuarrie1]

'Cause Peter has never acted weird and still been Peter.

And because Felicia is someone who has no intimate knowledge of Spider-Man at all, and is clearly the type to completely turn on him without giving him the chance to explain.

[cyberhubbs]

And because Felicia is someone who has no intimate knowledge of Spider-Man at all, and is clearly the type to completely turn on him without giving him the chance to explain.

You mean the passionate, spontaneous burglar who wears leather and fur? Her, yeah, she's definitely a name I'd put on a list of people who you don't want mad at you. "Peter" webbed her up and left her for the cops. There's a deep grudge to be had there. She probably doesn't care what his reason was for doing it, had a bad day, wanted to hit his quota before going home and just happened to run into her, or maybe he joined Boy Scouts of America and it changed his philosophy on crime and justice. All she knows is that it was Spidey's voice talking trash to her and that it was Spidey's fist that knocked a tooth out.

Not to mention that it's basically comic book drama. But clearly we're all too snooty for comic book drama. Everything has to be all detailed out because oh my god how will Black Cat ever survive this kinda sorta maybe comparison to Catwoman, and when will she go back to being Spider-Man's bestest buddy in the whole wide world, 'cause let's all remember that that it was another case of the heroic guy straightening out the naughty woman and showing her down the "right path".

Look, she'll be mad at him for a while, they'll fight and stuff, and then they'll make up and it'll be a sweet scene to read.

[Bertone]

And because Felicia is someone who has no intimate knowledge of Spider-Man at all, and is clearly the type to completely turn on him without giving him the chance to explain.

Felicia framed Peter for murder in the 80's to teach him a lesson about helping people who haven't asked for help. A man died because of this.

[RobertMacQuarrie1]

You mean the passionate, spontaneous burglar who wears leather and fur? Her, yeah, she's definitely a name I'd put on a list of people who you don't want mad at you. "Peter" webbed her up and left her for the cops. There's a deep grudge to be had there. She probably doesn't care what his reason was for doing it, had a bad day, wanted to hit his quota before going home and just happened to run into her, or maybe he joined Boy Scouts of America and it changed his philosophy on crime and justice. All she knows is that it was Spidey's voice talking trash to her and that it was Spidey's fist that knocked a tooth out.

Not to mention that it's basically comic book drama. But clearly we're all too snooty for comic book drama. Everything has to be all detailed out because oh my god how will Black Cat ever survive this kinda sorta maybe comparison to Catwoman, and when will she go back to being Spider-Man's bestest buddy in the whole wide world, 'cause let's all remember that that it was another case of the heroic guy straightening out the naughty woman and showing her down the "right path".

Look, she'll be mad at him for a while, they'll fight and stuff, and then they'll make up and it'll be a sweet scene to read.

Felicia framed Peter for murder in the 80's to teach him a lesson about helping people who haven't asked for help. A man died because of this.

The problem is that a lot of stuff has happened between those stories and now, that makes this sort of reversion back to being a straight villain a little hard to accept.

It's like Grant Morrison's argument for how he depicted Magneto in the finale of his X-Men run, "People forget Magneto started out as a mad old terrorist twat." But people didn't forget that. They were just more aware of the growth and development of his character since then.

It's not that people are ignorant or unaware of these stories. It's that they know of all the stories between then and now that makes such sudden reversals hard to accept narratively.

[Bertone]

The problem is that a lot of stuff has happened between those stories and now, that makes this sort of reversion back to being a straight villain a little hard to accept.

It's like Grant Morrison's argument for how he depicted Magneto in the finale of his X-Men run, "People forget Magneto started out as a mad old terrorist twat." But people didn't forget that. They were just more aware of the growth and development of his character since then.

It's not that people are ignorant or unaware of these stories. It's that they know of all the stories between then and now that makes such sudden reversals hard to accept narratively.

I agree. I meant that there is precedent for her to act this way, although I would argue that she should be past it. Same thing with her stealing. She had grown past it, but one could argue that there is precedent for her doing it when I moan about her regression (as I often do). I also bring up the Blaze incident out of my own personal amusement. She helped kill a guy to teach Peter a lesson and Peter never brought it up to her after that.

Regarding her anger at him...and maybe this belongs in another thread (since this is mainly about her secret identity)...

What if Peter had encountered her instead of Otto? Would he not of also arrested her? She was committing a crime. He wouldn't have assaulted her in the process, but I would think Peter would also have brought her to justice.

[RobertMacQuarrie1]

I agree. I meant that there is precedent for her to act this way, although I would argue that she should be past it. Same thing with her stealing. She had grown past it, but one could argue that there is precedent for her doing it when I moan about her regression (as I often do). I also bring up the Blaze incident out of my own personal amusement. She helped kill a guy to teach Peter a lesson and Peter never brought it up to her after that.

Regarding her anger at him...and maybe this belongs in another thread (since this is mainly about her secret identity)...

What if Peter had encountered her instead of Otto? Would he not of also arrested her? She was committing a crime. He wouldn't have assaulted her in the process, but I would think Peter would also have brought her to justice.

I think given their previous histories, if Peter's character had encountered her in the process of stealing something, it would be believable if he asked her to simply put the stuff she stole back. There would be some playful banter, Peter would appeal to Felicia's better nature, tell her he's going to look past it this one time, and Felicia would probably comply and return the stuff she stole this one time.

That to me seems more in keeping with their characters. Peter wants to do the right thing, but is willing to give his friends a pass as long as they aren't hurting anyone. Felicia is a little less moral than Peter, but isn't an outright villain and has grown enough over the years to the point that she wouldn't willingly endanger someone if she could help it. Given her character's pragmatism, Felicia seems more willing to avoid a fight than initiate one.

[cyberhubbs]

One man's progression is another man's bad idea.

And in Magneto's case, he'd flopped back and forth between hero, anti-hero and villain numerous times since his introduction. Heck, he's a perfect example of a guy who is proof you can always go home.