Thread Drift: Was Casting Emma Stone as Gwen Stacy rather than MJ a mistake?

[Kevinroc]

In the sense that Stone was a complete home run, I think so. The rest of the movies notwithstanding, the Stone and Stone/Garfield parts were widely liked and successful. They had to follow up on that, but I still think that's a good "problem" to have. It's certainly better than if they had cast a different Gwen, who was not as liked and did not connect as well as Stone did.

I think we have to look at the rest of the movies for context as to why I think casting Stone as Gwen was a mistake. Sure, casting Stone as MJ wouldn't have saved those movies from the terrible parents subplot. But it would have kept up interest as they moved into ASM 3.

See, for all the "world building" they were trying to do to turn ASM into a mega franchise to compete with the MCU, they didn't build up Peter's world. In fact, they reduced Peter's world going into ASM 2 with Flash Thompson's disappearance. And cutting out the scenes with Shailene Woodley as MJ. And keeping the Bugle entirely off screen. And the mess that was the Harry Osborn story. (He was supposed to be Peter's BFF? Didn't even get mentioned at all in the first movie.)

See, I agree it's a "good problem" to have the audience care about the characters and what happens to them. It's a "bad problem" when that's the ONLY thing they care about when they plan on killing off the character. And in these movies, Gwen ended up being a BAD PROBLEM. (Capitalized for emphasis.)

The Daniel Craig James Bond films did okay despite killing off Eva Green's character. The Nolan bat-films made a fortune even with the death of Rachel Dawes.

As has been said, the romance angle wasn't a major selling point of those franchises. Romance has been a major selling point of the Spider-Man films since the first Raimi film.

An ASM with Stone as MJ probably gets you Stone as the Ultimate MJ, which would still be a very similar character. The main difference would be in Captain Stacy, although I'm sure they could figure out a way to figure out an authority figure who doesn't trust Spider-Man.

MJ's dad being a complete jerk is pretty much a constant through the Marvel multiverse. What he actually does as a job? That one's up in the air.

(But I always love it when Jonah rallies the public against Spider-Man.)

[Project Initiative Cascada]

Lol no. Stone was perfection as Gwen. Easily one of the best parts of the franchise along with Garfield.

Though she would've made a much better MJ than Woodley. Yuck. They really dodged a bullet there by cutting her scenes from the sequel.

[BlitheringToot]

Taylor Swift as Gwen...and Katy Perry as MJ.

*eyes widen*

Ye. Gods.

[Totoro Man]

Taylor Swift as Gwen...and Katy Perry as MJ.

the cinematic equivalent of water-boarding, LOL.

[Totoro Man]

1) Gwen started to unravel as a character as soon as MJ arrived on the scene. Stan decided to reduce Gwen to goodie two shoes so to serve as the foil to MJ's happy-go-lucky 60's party girl, and that was the beginning of the end for Gwen. Regarding MJ's characterization, I keep repeating this because people keep forgetting, but she had absolutely no thought bubbles throughout the Lee/Romita run. All we knew of her was what she chose to present on the outside, giving later writers like Conway the perfect opportunity to reveal her superficial act as a facade.

2) Gwen wasn't necessarily based off the Lee/Romita MJ but she was definitely more similar to Ultimate MJ than to 616 Gwen herself.

3) The direction Sony chose to take in regards to the romance, was them forcing themselves into a corner. The only reasons Sony chose Gwen was because she was the best known alternative to MJ, who was already used in the Raimi trilogy, and because Gwen was the "girlfriend who died", which must have definitely seemed to Sony like a lucrative tale to milk at a time when "dark and gritty" was the catchphrase for superhero movies coming off the immensely successful The Dark Knight. Then they decided to cast Emma Stone as Gwen Stacy so as to ensure Gwen's death had the maximum impact. But what they failed to take into account was that the Mary Jane actress following her had to be even more charismatic and have more chemistry with Andrew Garfield's Peter Parker. An incredibly tall order indeed. That's what Kevinroc means when he says Sony casting Emma Stone as Gwen, the love interest who would die, was a major mistake, a mistake which ultimately ended the rebooted franchise because seriously, the romance was all that it had going for it.

1. sounds about right. things just didn't feel downright awful until after George Stacy died. subsequent writers, after Lee, didn't even try to finesse the issue. but yes, as soon as MJ got introduced the seeds of Gwen's destruction were already being planted.

2. I haven't read any of the Ultimate titles-- but I don't doubt that the cinematic Gwen in TASM was based more heavily on the Ultimate MJ then 616 Gwen. I just don't think the classic MJ we saw early on would have been a good artistic decision. and, naturally, they didn't go with that. it's also why they couldn't make the original version of Betty Brant a viable leading lady/love interest.

3. I fully understand that getting somebody who could hold their own against Stone's performance as Stacy would practically be asking for a casting/scripting miracle. in that case, if they REALLY wanted to continue the franchise they needed to reconsider IF and WHEN they would kill off her character. as a Spider fan I found myself bewildered. people were writing "they should just hurry up and kill of Gwen so that MJ can show up!" I found myself thinking "do they REALLY need to kill off Gwen when she's easily the best part of this franchise?" the odds of them finding somebody who could actually eclipse Stone's performance (combined with her popularity) would be nearly impossible. they actually didn't HAVE to kill her off. but I'm glad that they did because it took the wind out of their sails and forced a reboot. there were things I enjoyed about TASM-- but it had a LOT of problems. and TASM2 had more things wrong than good.

maybe if they had kept Gwen Stacy alive people would have been interested in watching more films-- but not me. I wouldn't have watched a third film even if Garfield and Stone were both back... well, MAYBE if Alfred Molina came back as Dr. Octopus. but that would never happen.

[Dr. Skeleton]

Oh yes. Marc Webb is one of those typical directors in which he was gonna do things his way whether you liked it or not. The majority saw Stone as the MJ type, but Webb decides to throw us a curve. Out of spite maybe? I always knew the reboot was doomed from the start. A british, late 20's actor for Peter Parker and no J. Jonah Jameson was a couple of those things.

[Spider-Tiger]

I think Emma Stone would have been much better suited as MJ. She has that fiery personality that Gwen ... just doesn't. Plus, she looks better as a redhead.

That being said, I think having Gwen be Spidey's first love was a good idea ... but I would have cast a different actress in the role. But who would have been a better Gwen than Emma Stone? Bryce Dallas Howard was pretty much perfect in "Spider-Man 3," despite being woefully wasted in the unnecessary role, but she's definitely too old now. Honestly ... and please bear in mind that this suggestion comes solely from seeing the resemblance in J. Scott Campbell's lovely "Spider-Gwen" variants ... I could kinda see ... dear God, I can't believe I'm even saying this ...

*winces slightly*

... Taylor ...


... Swift ... ?


*recoils in shame*

emma_stone_taylor_swift.jpg

MJ and Gwen

Seriously though, I think Dianna Agron would've also made a fine Gwen.

[boots]

can we define who it was a mistake for? because i honestly can’t wrap my head around it. was it a “mistake” for marvel comics? the marvel cinematic universe? the sony pictures? the fans? the human race?

[AJpyro]

I watched the ASM movies for Stone and Garfield. Didn't really care if she was MJ or Gwen, I just liked the chemistry.

[boots]

I watched the ASM movies for Stone and Garfield. Didn't really care if she was MJ or Gwen, I just liked the chemistry.

i think you’d be in the majority of movie goers.

[MJsDefense]

Maybe.

TASM gave a forgotten and undeveloped character like Gwen another chance to shine. And it's great! They took a lot from Ultimate!MJ, though, to the point she's almost unrecognizable personality wise. Still, see the new Gwen interacting and being friends with what-I-suppose-they-were-going-for biker MJ would have been amazing.

But... Emma Stone as 616!MJ... We could have had it all.

[Kevinroc]

can we define who it was a mistake for? because i honestly can’t wrap my head around it. was it a “mistake” for marvel comics? the marvel cinematic universe? the sony pictures? the fans? the human race?

The people who made those movies. And who wanted to make a cinematic universe to compete with Marvel. Because that's ultimately the question. How big an impact did Gwen's death in these films lead to them crashing and burning?

[Scott Taylor]

I felt like there was plenty to follow, but I am easily pleased with superhero movies. Is there a character I like on screen, doing cool things? Then I'm most likely happy. I have liked them all, to some degree, even "Daredevil" the movie and the "Ghost Rider"s. I don't know why, beyond the fact that I am nuts for anything superhero related and am positive by nature.

I do have one idea, though: it may be my age. I am old enough to remember living in a world without ANY Spider-Man movies. A world where the "Superman" movies with Reeves were the best thing out. So now, after decades of wishing, hoping, of false starts and rumors, I have all of the characters I love, up on screen, a couple of times a year!
I have had so many wishes coming true, rapid-fire, for years now, and I'm just really grateful and happy to finally experience it all.

Well we had that animated Spider-Man TV series with the great theme! And there was a live action Spider-Man TV show that I try to forget about.

I love this age of seeing all these beloved characters on screen. But at the same time, Superman is permanently emblazoned on my soul as the movie to beat still. Nothing has topped that time when Clark Kent is running towards the camera ripping his shirt off, to the music of John Williams, revealing the big 'S' underneath. I had no idea that the first superhero movie that I truly loved would be so hard to ever match. Wonder Woman of the 1970s is still my Wonder Woman. That Greatest American Hero TV show is better than the Daredevil movie!

My point is that even though I am grateful to be living in this time, its increasingly apparent that just because these movies are a thing now it doesn't mean that they are done with heart. I felt the ASM movies were done with no goal other than to keep the license for Sony and to make money. Period. No heart. People involved with the movie made noises as if they cared for these characters in the franchise, but I felt that they really didn't. Felt completely different with Raimi, who cared so much about the character and his world that he cast himself as a gopher in the Daily Bugle! Thats heart, buddy! Dan Slott cares enough about the character that he has written him for ... I forget how long now, and he was in a recent issue (don't lie, Dan, that is you!). Heart.

Emma Stone isn't only a good actor, she's also good at being a tough cookie. The girl in Zombieland who kept stealing those guys car, and holding her own again zombie hordes? Over and over she has played streetwise roles. She's also a model - the face of Revlon. And she is known for being a redhead. In cultural consciousness, she is not Gwen Stacy, she is MJ. Anyone with a passing knowledge of the comics would see that.

Long story short - the 'Gwen' of the ASM movies was built into a tough character who probably would have found a way to live through that stupid goblin attack. Yet she died in kind of a putzy way.

[boots]

The people who made those movies. And who wanted to make a cinematic universe to compete with Marvel. Because that's ultimately the question. How big an impact did Gwen's death in these films lead to them crashing and burning?

so…following your train of thought-is it a mistake to have gwen or involve emma stone as gwen? it seems the mistake was killing her.

[boots]

Well we had that animated Spider-Man TV series with the great theme! And there was a live action Spider-Man TV show that I try to forget about.

I love this age of seeing all these beloved characters on screen. But at the same time, Superman is permanently emblazoned on my soul as the movie to beat still. Nothing has topped that time when Clark Kent is running towards the camera ripping his shirt off, to the music of John Williams, revealing the big 'S' underneath. I had no idea that the first superhero movie that I truly loved would be so hard to ever match. Wonder Woman of the 1970s is still my Wonder Woman. That Greatest American Hero TV show is better than the Daredevil movie!

My point is that even though I am grateful to be living in this time, its increasingly apparent that just because these movies are a thing now it doesn't mean that they are done with heart. I felt the ASM movies were done with no goal other than to keep the license for Sony and to make money. Period. No heart. People involved with the movie made noises as if they cared for these characters in the franchise, but I felt that they really didn't. Felt completely different with Raimi, who cared so much about the character and his world that he cast himself as a gopher in the Daily Bugle! Thats heart, buddy! Dan Slott cares enough about the character that he has written him for ... I forget how long now, and he was in a recent issue (don't lie, Dan, that is you!). Heart.

Emma Stone isn't only a good actor, she's also good at being a tough cookie. The girl in Zombieland who kept stealing those guys car, and holding her own again zombie hordes? Over and over she has played streetwise roles. She's also a model - the face of Revlon. And she is known for being a redhead. In cultural consciousness, she is not Gwen Stacy, she is MJ. Anyone with a passing knowledge of the comics would see that.

Long story short - the 'Gwen' of the ASM movies was built into a tough character who probably would have found a way to live through that stupid goblin attack. Yet she died in kind of a putzy way.

two thoughts here-

it’s hard to compare anything to your “first”.

also, heroic depictions have changed recently. media likes to talk about how we’re in the mainstream age of the “anti-hero” (even the best received dramas now feature traditionally unlikeable characters “true detective”, “the knick”, “girls” etc). there’s a lot less earnestness and more pragmatism (i wouldn’t say less heart though) in the majority of heroic depictions; we’re getting a lot more human characters these days and less role models.