Infinite Futures (HA,Av#1-5) Portends Age Of Ultron By Bendis?

[jackolover]

Are we to believe, from that wall map in HA Avengers #5 that Tony Stark and Maestro teamed up at the start of Age of Ultron, to send Kang back in time to talk the Avengers into coming to Ultrons future and convince Ultron to lose? Sort of like an Avengers : Days of Future Past? Because that's what it looks like from that time line map.

We, the reader, catch Age of Ultron #1 a week after Ultron wins, but we don't know what goes on between the start of Ultrons fight, and 1 week later. Did Kang arrive at that point, day 1, in Age of Ultron, and try to beat Ultron 20 times and lose, but in the process, break time? Then (Stark already being there), Maestro, and Avengers Next were there in the MU because of Kang bringing them there. (Remember, the Age of Ultron Ultron didn't appear until Avengers #12.1, way after Avengers #1-5). It's possible Kang brought Avengers Next to Age Of Ultron, even Maestro, in the hope these two forces could defeat Ultron but it didn't work. Kang had 20 goes at this to try and find a combination that would work. Maybe Maestro and the kids stayed there after their turn failed. Maybe Stark was the only one who could steer clear of the carnage and that's why he had that wall chart, as the only one who recorded all the events from Heroic Age up to Age of Ultron? Once Kangs egotistical plan failed, and the Avengers from HA Avengers #1-5 helped restore time, then Ultron attacked in ernest and won.

If that is the case, we can slip HA Age of Ultron #1-5 just before Age of Ultron #1 as an Avengers : Days of Future Past saga.

Post script : Then we have the other part of the wall map, post-Age of Ultron, which shows a sudden end of everything like a big lens, and there is nothing after that. Did Stark already know the end of everything, like he admitted to Rogers in Hickmans finale Avengers #44 portending Secret Wars?

Really, Marvel could do one thing that would change Hickmans version of events, and that is to go back in time to before HA Avengers #1-5, and never allow the Intelligencia to find that Space Knight in the cave. Then this whole Secret Wars would never have happened. I'm convinced the only thing that made Secret Wars happen is the breaking of Space-Time, causing the anomaly that Builders ever existed, that Beyonders created Molecule Men for this sick purpose, and a host of other unlikely events like Arno Stark, Original Sin, and AVX. These are just leaks of bad alternate realities infecting the MU.

If some time traveller could erase the Space Knights discovery, the MU could be restored.

[SidheKnight]

What is "HA Avengers"?

[resipsaloquitur]

I am having a little trouble following this thread. I think what you're asking is whether the Ultron-conquered future in Avengers (2010) was our first glimpse of the Age of Ultron reality we saw in 2013. I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Avengers #1-5 was esentialy a follow-on to the "Next Avengers" directo-to-video cartoon where most of the original Avengers (except Tony, Hulk, and Vision) were dead at Ultron's hands. It certainly resembled AoU to the extent that it was an Ultron-conquered future, but my recollection is that the big fight with Kang's forces and Ultron was in the Next Avengers reality.

If I'm correct, it's a little disappointing since it *could* have been a glimpse into a then-upcoming story. I think at best, it served as a warning of what Ultron *could* do if he ever came back (which he did a few months later in Avengers #12.1).

[Bamfthony]

What is "HA Avengers"?

Heroic Age maybe?

[EmrysM]

IIRC, didn't this whole thing happen sort of how you're explaining it, but with different characters involved?
I believe in Hickman's Fantastic Four run, it's actually when future Franklin and Valeria try to change how to universe dies that they get stuck with the incursions. There's a certain point before the end of the 'Three' story I believe, where having changed the future, the stars start dying and people begin ominously saying everything dies continuously.
I could be wrong; my memory's a bit hazy.

But my end-point would be that basically a time-traveller could rewrite time and avert the whole of secret wars not unlike you're suggesting, probably.

[jackolover]

Yes, HA Avengers is during the Heroic Age.

I was not aware that Age of Ultron could have been in the actual Avengers Next alternate reality, just that a few of the characters from there were involved. It's possible what you say is correct, resi. I don't think it matters though, as wherever the 616 Avengers were doing this in the future, they had the same wall map as the future of the 616 anyway, pretty much identical.

What does become important is that in AoU #10, Tony Stark says this is "Multiversal Chaos", and he said it just after Pym explained to Stark and McCoy, (no Richards), what just happened in 2010, I think. It could be 2013, because it gets confusing after that, but by the time of "Multiversal Chaos" anything could have been altered to the point where Builders now existed in the 616, Beyonders had now made Molecule Men time bombs, a galactic council was now in this reality, and Incursions were initiated back in 1963. None of this existed before HA Avengers #1-5, or Age of Ultron.

[resipsaloquitur]

I am not sure the Heroic Age story was intended to get us to Secret Wars. Tony's map did identify *most* of what Marvel was plotting over the next 2-3 years, apparently up to AoU. Maybe it was, at the time, intended as a lead-in to AoU, though the final AoU product turned out pretty differently--so I stand by my position that it was sort of an allusion to what Ultron could do to the 616 in the future without it actually being 616's future. "Infinite Futures" is pretty vague and open-ended, though.

[RobinFan4880]

I am not sure the Heroic Age story was intended to get us to Secret Wars. Tony's map did identify *most* of what Marvel was plotting over the next 2-3 years, apparently up to AoU. Maybe it was, at the time, intended as a lead-in to AoU, though the final AoU product turned out pretty differently--so I stand by my position that it was sort of an allusion to what Ultron could do to the 616 in the future without it actually being 616's future. "Infinite Futures" is pretty vague and open-ended, though.

Age of Ultron definitely felt like it was supposed to be one thing, then rejiggered to be something else. The characters in it were decidedly pre-AvX/Marvel Now yet was released well after Marvel NOW was underway.

Infinite Futures could very well be another new event.