Thoughts On The "President Luthor" Storyline Years Back

[Agent Z]

I have decidedly mixed feelings on it.

As someone else pointed out, the story changed due to 9/11 so we never got the full extent of what Loeb & Kelly had planned. Had we, the payoff might have been worth it all.

As it stands, the biggest issue I had and still have is that I don't believe Superman would just sit back and allow someone like Lex to be voted President of the United States. He would say and do something about it. Also, I thought Lex's motives were pretty weak and silly.

What could he have done about it?

[kingaliencracker]

What could he have done about it?

ANYTHING. But first and foremost he could have gone to the press and stated something to the effect of "I don't support Lex, please don't vote for him." He could have NOT posed in pictures with him. He could have REFUSED to work with him as he did at times.

Superman believed Americans wouldn't vote Lex in. Yet they did. So it effectively made him look stupid, while simultaneously making the DC populace look as stupid.

[Agent Z]

ANYTHING. But first and foremost he could have gone to the press and stated something to the effect of "I don't support Lex, please don't vote for him." He could have NOT posed in pictures with him. He could have REFUSED to work with him as he did at times.

Superman believed Americans wouldn't vote Lex in. Yet they did. So it effectively made him look stupid, while simultaneously making the DC populace look as stupid.

If he did that, he'd also have to explain why he thought Luthor shouldn't be President and without evidence of Luthor's crimes, he'd just look like an idiot.

I agree on not posing in pictures with him. Working with him is a bit more complicated. Heroes have worked with villains at times.

[Ascended]

I think conceptually there's a lot of merit to the idea of Lex becoming POTUS. As a businessman, he was able to accomplish a lot. As President, his reach and influence would have been multiplied considerably and he would have really felt like an "omega" type threat to the entire DCU, not just Metropolis. Bigger scale, more fitting for the Man of Tomorrow. It also brings a sharp contrast to Superman's relationship with the government, which at the time was far too friendly for my personal tastes. If Superman represents the best of America and our ideals, Lex holding the oval office seems fitting, as he represents the worst of America, and to me that includes deep-rooted corruption and greed.

The "being accountable to the public" stuff never bothered me. Lex is smart enough to avoid any pitfalls, and was accustomed to dodging the truth and manipulating public opinion anyway. And besides that, we've seen plenty of examples where a President or governor has said "Well, the people voted this way. But screw it, we're doing it this other way instead" and nothing has come of it. Politicians are already free from punishment so Lex has very little to fear, other than a raw and complete expose that brings every scumbag thing he's ever done to light. And even then, by the time the impeachment process had run its course, he'd be just about finished with his term anyway.

Ultimately, the execution of the idea was lackluster and Lex ended up being someone I might have even voted for. Sure, he's a super villain...but what politician isnt? And he was portrayed as truly wanting America to succeed and do well, because it fed his ego to do so. Employment was up, crime was down.....honestly, America could (and has) done worse. Sure, he made some backroom deals with the devil and rogue nations...but again, what politician hasnt?

I'd welcome a well-thought out return to that status quo, but only if the quality matches the potential the idea carries. The circumstances, hook, and reasoning would have to be just right, as would Clark's role in events. He cant end up looking impotent again.

[Ascended]

ANYTHING. But first and foremost he could have gone to the press and stated something to the effect of "I don't support Lex, please don't vote for him." He could have NOT posed in pictures with him. He could have REFUSED to work with him as he did at times.

Superman believed Americans wouldn't vote Lex in. Yet they did. So it effectively made him look stupid, while simultaneously making the DC populace look as stupid.

If they ever do this story again, an easy way around that is to say that the American people didnt vote for him, but he rigged the election. If the popular vote can be denied in favor of an opposing electoral vote, then Lex can get in too.

[Jim Kelly]

The bothersome thing with these stories is that they can't hold true for very long and have to be written out of continuity in short order. The one that bugged me even more was the whole Y2K thing with Brainiac.

The timing was unfortunate given 9/11. Imagine if, during WW II, Luthor was the president in all the DC comics instead of FDR. There would have been none of those flag-waving, patriotic stories where the wartime president is portrayed as the great leader.

Of course, there was a 1960s story that had Luthor becoming the president. It's like all that DC writers do is thumb through Superman's back catalogue and pick out stories to revamp. The good thing about all the classic stories was that they were self-contained and didn't stretch out for months.

After 9/11, there was a certain feeling that one shouldn't exploit this real tragedy. Yet DC was so taken up with their events--Luthor as president and Our Worlds At War--that they missed the opportunity to use Superman for a good purpose--except in a few one-off tribute tales.

Without any effort from DC, the people embraced Superman as a symbol in the post-9/11 world. Yet slow to respond (with their comics planned out months in advance), DC couldn't tune in on what everyone in the free world was feeling. At that moment we didn't need stories about corrupt politicians and businessmen--we needed stories that restored our faith in basic human goodness and the belief that virtue will triumph over evil.

It didn't make sense that Superman would let Luthor be president and do nothing about it. I grant that in the post-modernist world of comic books, good men will always fail in the face of evil--because we're too jaded to believe otherwise. But the way that kind of story had played out up to that point was that Superman did try to do something (to stop corporate Luthor, to stop Phantom Zoners, to stop Doomsday) and he got his ass handed to him. So, okay, that's probably what would have happened--but it's unbelievable that Superman wouldn't even try to do anything.

Superman's frustration in trying to defeat Luthor and get people to heed his warnings (echoing his own father's warnings about Krypton's doom) would have at least been an interesting story--even if ultimately depressing.

[DochaDocha]

US politics (and maybe politics around the world, in general) can leave you so cynical sometimes that seeing Luthor as president is almost amusing. On top of that, it built on the theme that the types of villains Superman would fight were the ones he couldn't punch. It's an interesting idea, at least conceptually, but I can't say there are any particular stories from the time that stick out as exceptional. At best, it makes for an interesting chapter in Superman's history, and I think I give them credit for trying something noteworthy and different, but I wouldn't call it a high point. Luthor as the slimy businessman who manipulates things behind the scenes and then weasels his way out through high-priced lawyers is okay, and becoming president is a believable extension, but it's a mixed bag of good and bad.

[kingaliencracker]

If he did that, he'd also have to explain why he thought Luthor shouldn't be President and without evidence of Luthor's crimes, he'd just look like an idiot.

I agree on not posing in pictures with him. Working with him is a bit more complicated. Heroes have worked with villains at times.

I don't agree.

"I know Lex Luthor. He is not presidential material. Although I can't get into specifics, I ask the American people trust me, as I trust you, in not voting for him".

I mean, this is Superman. I think a statement like that would carry a lot of clout with the DC populace.

[kingaliencracker]

US politics (and maybe politics around the world, in general) can leave you so cynical sometimes that seeing Luthor as president is almost amusing. On top of that, it built on the theme that the types of villains Superman would fight were the ones he couldn't punch. It's an interesting idea, at least conceptually, but I can't say there are any particular stories from the time that stick out as exceptional. At best, it makes for an interesting chapter in Superman's history, and I think I give them credit for trying something noteworthy and different, but I wouldn't call it a high point. Luthor as the slimy businessman who manipulates things behind the scenes and then weasels his way out through high-priced lawyers is okay, and becoming president is a believable extension, but it's a mixed bag of good and bad.

I think businessman Lex worked for the period it was written.

For me, President Lex never really worked unless you had a REALLY great payoff, which unfortunately we didn't, some of which were due to circumstances outside Loeb's or Kelly's control.

[oldschoolfan]

This has been a very enlightening thread. Thanks I am going to trust that Patrick's sources on his info are for real because I am not familiar with him beyond this thread.

The only thing I reacted to was that it inherently changed the relationship between Luthor and Supes, ways that couldn't be changed back.

I liked the possibility of some of the dilemmas it could put Superman in, but that never got explored. Now I know why.

[oldschoolfan]

If they ever do this story again, an easy way around that is to say that the American people didnt vote for him, but he rigged the election. If the popular vote can be denied in favor of an opposing electoral vote, then Lex can get in too.

Hah! This will never happen! You would have to get the Supreme Court to.....wait a minute....never mind. teehee

[Agent Z]

I don't agree.

"I know Lex Luthor. He is not presidential material. Although I can't get into specifics, I ask the American people trust me, as I trust you, in not voting for him".

I mean, this is Superman. I think a statement like that would carry a lot of clout with the DC populace.

While not as bad as the Marvel universe, the citizens of the DCU aren't always on Superman's side. Remember that Luthor is human, while Clark is not.

[JBatmanFan05]

I enjoyed the beginning (the election) and the end (Public Enemies), but liked only one part in the middle (Lex finding out Sup's secret ID and promptly killing the analyst and losing it to M.Black).

It's this middle that was the problem overall....disappointing, could have been more.


Public Enemies saved the whole thing for me. It was such a fun Loeb story and a great fun Lex story. The art and story were such fun and epic. And even later in S/B you see that Lex was able to trigger his erased memory of Superman's ID, but Mxy changed that & subbed in a portent for Infinite Crisis.

[Triniking1234]

While not as bad as the Marvel universe, the citizens of the DCU aren't always on Superman's side. Remember that Luthor is human, while Clark is not.

Can you imagine if Supes got involved in that mess?

"Who are you to tell us who to vote for? You're illegal! I-L-L-E-G-A-L!!!"

But what does everyone think of Johns' making Lex join the JL?

[Clark_Kent]

I don't agree.

"I know Lex Luthor. He is not presidential material. Although I can't get into specifics, I ask the American people trust me, as I trust you, in not voting for him".

I mean, this is Superman. I think a statement like that would carry a lot of clout with the DC populace.

Superman knew that if he spoke out against Luthor, America would follow his lead...thus abusing his power & position as Superman. The only thing he could do was let democracy play out (his slogan still had "The American Way" in it back then).

Lex Luthor is bad. Nuclear weapons are also bad, but nobody wants Superman to go around telling everyone what to do with them. That story was done once, and it was a disaster. Superman should always be there to inspire us, to catch us when we fall, but never to tell us what to do.

Now, if Lois & Clark would have had the internet that we all have today, then they could have wikileaked their way to ensuring Lex would not win. But there was no way Superman could get involved.