The Shocker Appreciation thread

[Beacon]

So I feel like the Silvermane’s mocking of Herman’s trust in friends who keep stabbing him in the back (in Superior Foes #12) went a long way toward reconciling the “loser” and “professional” aspects of the character; it seems he’s the last man who still believes in honor among thieves and others are quick to take advantage of that.

[The Overlord]

So I feel like the Silvermane’s mocking of Herman’s trust in friends who keep stabbing him in the back (in Superior Foes #12) went a long way toward reconciling the “loser” and “professional” aspects of the character; it seems he’s the last man who still believes in honor among thieves and others are quick to take advantage of that.

That's a good step in the right direction, I still wonder how you can reconcile Shocker's supposed professionalism with his actions in "Unscheduled Stop", where he is willing to murder 12 innocent people because he took an insane job from an insane crime boss. Its not a bad story, but it seems like to derailed Shocker's character. For Shocker's professionalism to mean something, he should have a code of ethics, a line he will not cross in terms. If he is just some scumbag who will murder woman and children for the right price, it makes professionalism seem meaningless. I am wondering if they should give an explanation on why he took that job and define whether his professionalism is truly a sympathetic trait or not.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

So I feel like the Silvermane’s mocking of Herman’s trust in friends who keep stabbing him in the back (in Superior Foes #12) went a long way toward reconciling the “loser” and “professional” aspects of the character; it seems he’s the last man who still believes in honor among thieves and others are quick to take advantage of that.

So shocker doesn't believe in honor among thieves but he keeps swimming in shark waters figuratively speaking?

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

That's a good step in the right direction, I still wonder how you can reconcile Shocker's supposed professionalism with his actions in "Unscheduled Stop", where he is willing to murder 12 innocent people because he took an insane job from an insane crime boss. Its not a bad story, but it seems like to derailed Shocker's character. For Shocker's professionalism to mean something, he should have a code of ethics, a line he will not cross in terms. If he is just some scumbag who will murder woman and children for the right price, it makes professionalism seem meaningless. I am wondering if they should give an explanation on why he took that job and define whether his professionalism is truly a sympathetic trait or not.

This is stuff I can add to unanswered question in comic books.

[The Rhino]

I think Shocker was just pushed to the limits to carry out that job. He does not want to kill people but if that is what is required, he would. I'd have to read the story again to get into his mind better though.

[The Overlord]

I think Shocker was just pushed to the limits to carry out that job. He does not want to kill people but if that is what is required, he would. I'd have to read the story again to get into his mind better though.

Why didn't Shocker just no to that particular job? The crime boss who commissioned him was either criminally insane or some sort evil bloodthirsty psychopath, because that was not something a crime boss with an modicum of common sense would know that trying to bully the legal system by trying to murder 12 jury members, will backfire in a huge way, someone like Kingpin wouldn't sign off on something like this, he wouldn't want the blow back. If Shocker is supposed sane, he shouldn't be taking the type of crazy jobs, they seem more like the kinda job Bullseye would take. If Shocker is willing to take a job that involves going on a killing spree and becoming a mass murderer in the span of a day, it doesn't seem sane or professional.

I think for Shocker to be elevated and become more of an A-list villain, he needs more of a consistent personality, rather then the writers just saying he is whatever they want him to be that week. He can't go back and fourth from joke villain to greedy villain who has some moral standards to evil greedy scumbag will murder anyone, including women and children for the right price.

I would prefer that for Shocker, his professionalism actually means something and that he actually has some moral compass, Spidey already has enough evil scumbag villains. Again I want to like Shocker, but I think the writers have work a little harder with the character. I wonder if it would be better to somewhat retcon Shocker's actions in Unscheduled Stop or at least give him a better reason for attempted mass murder then I was greedy. The writers should give the character another dimensions besides that.

[Beacon]

RE the “professionalism” thing: anyone read the Parker novels? Professionalism doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing to Parker and the Shocker but I do think both see it as doing the job you’ll paid to do and expecting your accomplices to do the same. The difference being that Parker deals with traitors brutally and Shocker mostly bemoans his fate when stabbed in the back and sees revenge as a sucker’s game. Considering things tend to fall apart for Parker when he makes things personal, Herman might have the right idea though some will still see him as a loser.

So shocker doesn't believe in honor among thieves but he keeps swimming in shark waters figuratively speaking?

No, Shocker DOES believe in honor among thieves but none of the other thieves do. It’d be easy to dismiss that sort of belief as him being too dumb to live if not for one other thing; he’s one of the few villains who had a rational reaction to the Scourge of the Underworld. His perfectly justifiable fear there is the main reason some people see him as a coward.

There’s got to be some explanation for his trust in the worst of humanity. That’s a story I want to see.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

RE the “professionalism” thing: anyone read the Parker novels? Professionalism doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing to Parker and the Shocker but I do think both see it as doing the job you’ll paid to do and expecting your accomplices to do the same. The difference being that Parker deals with traitors brutally and Shocker mostly bemoans his fate when stabbed in the back and sees revenge as a sucker’s game. Considering things tend to fall apart for Parker when he makes things personal, Herman might have the right idea though some will still see him as a loser.



No, Shocker DOES believe in honor among thieves but none of the other thieves do. It’d be easy to dismiss that sort of belief as him being too dumb to live if not for one other thing; he’s one of the few villains who had a rational reaction to the Scourge of the Underworld. His perfectly justifiable fear there is the main reason some people see him as a coward.

There’s got to be some explanation for his trust in the worst of humanity. That’s a story I want to see.

So a explanation on why he believes honor amongst thieves is that you mean for trust in worst of humanity?

Unscheduled stop This shows the damn problem of writing him as a plot device but s even lamer explanation would be for this embarrassment would be he has multiple personality disorder, it was a clone, he was mind controlled, or the worst one it was a dream or a illusion produced by Mad Jim jaspers, Mysterio, etc.
This seems about the same as Hal Jordan as parallax it's that much of a problem and a writer is going to have clean this mess up which won't be easy , or retcon it.

Also freakin lame he was greedy more damn lazy writing.
Shocker is a sane man that has professionalism, and him accepting this job that clearly is more fitting for bullseye is egregious writing the kind of egregious writing that is the embodiment of we don't give a damn about shocker.
The professionalism seems like a word that right now is just getting thrown around not meaning anything. It should freakin mean something. He's against killing, recognizes his limits he's sane enough that accepting that job hugely goes against being professional and sane.

Shocker is a sane super villain that has professionalism, this does make a singular spider man enemy he shouldn't be another evil scumbag super villain the web slinger has enough of those to fit in two limos. So much freakin untapped greatness and potential shocker should be a a lister a powerhouse in the street level super heroes league.
I would beg Mark waid to write shocker because he can actually produce the overdue justice for shocker. Shocker written by Mark Waid would be topnotch, Gail Simone i knows she's of dc comics doesn't mean she can't someday write something of marvel, or any great writer that respects shocker and unleash his greatness.

Unscheduled stop is freakin clear proof you can't use a character as a plot device without any fiasco.


The whole explanation he's a greedy thug is a freakin lame excuse on why he choose a life of crime, and didn't pursue a legal job. Give a good explanation.
It's as freakin lame as if Peter Parker says he's attracted to Mary Jane, Gwen, or any other woman's he's dated with she's hot nothing besides those two words. Yes a damn lame explanation that doesn't require any thought. Or the crap of Eddie says I like being bad of the abomination spider man 3 yep it's that huge lame abysmal writing for why he's a super villain on explanation of why he's a super villain.

He keeps fighting spider man a powerful foe why to conclude from that he's a coward is damn stupid. If a tiger is 10 yards away and there's a tree you can climb it would be wise to climb the tree getting up as high as possible.
That's the way I view the situation he's not being afraid he's being smart.
Scourge of the underworld is a grim reaper to criminals, love to see the same damn people have no powers as in normal durability and not become fearful knowing the scourge of underworld is chasing them like a terminator.

[Beacon]

He keeps fighting spider man a powerful foe why to conclude from that he's a coward is damn stupid. If a tiger is 10 yards away and there's a tree you can climb it would be wise to climb the tree getting up as high as possible.
That's the way I view the situation he's not being afraid he's being smart.
Scourge of the underworld is a grim reaper to criminals, love to see the same damn people have no powers as in normal durability and not become fearful knowing the scourge of underworld is chasing them like a terminator.

Why are you agreeing with me in a tone that sounds like you’re arguing with me?

Being afraid of Scourge, Punisher, or even the Superior Spider-Man is a perfectly sensible reaction. People claim its cowardly but its actually just sane.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

Why are you agreeing with me in a tone that sounds like you’re arguing with me?

Being afraid of Scourge, Punisher, or even the Superior Spider-Man is a perfectly sensible reaction. People claim its cowardly but its actually just sane.

Because I responded in anger to this I'm sorry.
Also I should have said that analogy for those characters that believes he's a coward, along with why the whole he's a coward is crap.

Yeah and logical for a sane individual that isn't bulletproof.
These individuals are who? Whoever they are I'm sure they would also be running like there's no tomorrow if vengeance was driving towards them, Ghost Rider, Blackheart, Or some other powerhouse individual.

[The Rhino]

Shocker's appearance in She-Hulk was EH. There was one good character moment and a few bad ones for Shocker.

TOO BAD.

[gwangung]

Anybody give a thought that he has a learning disability? Dropped out of high school because he couldn't afford treatment?

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

Anybody give a thought that he has a learning disability? Dropped out of high school because he couldn't afford treatment?

As in dyslexia?
It's a possibility, also possible he grew up on the wrong side of the tracks and without a mentor or mentors and seeing a life of crime easier than working at a legal job.
Maybe told he would want amount to nothing constantly so why waste time in a place to him is garbage and despair. That or there was no treatment, or he got treatment but not without constant ridicule, mockery, antagonism, and being bullied.

Plus with a life of crime he's on control able to crack safes.

[Beacon]

Shocker's appearance in She-Hulk was EH. There was one good character moment and a few bad ones for Shocker.

TOO BAD.

Finally read that issue of She-Hulk. Once I got past the terrible fill-in art, it was okay. I’d enjoyed the first few issues of the new run but this was just okay.

Shocker himself seemed like a mixed bag. On the one hand, I appreciated his pragmatic worldview (“If you see a Hulk, you run. Same for Thors”)*. I thought the futile attempt to escape with only his mask, gauntlets, and underwear was hilarious. I liked that he was reasonable enough to know he was outmatched to quit while he was ahead and appreciative enough of the food that he was willing to help Jen.

On the other hand, I hated that he came off as brain damaged and was willing to blast himself with something meant of blow bank vaults in order to “knock [memories] loose”. I really hated the heavy-handed way they nearly broke the fourth wall by having Jen ask why he turned to crime if he was able to design the gauntlets. It’s made even worse by the way Herman doesn’t actually answer the question. If I wanted to see petty criminals weasel out of answering pandering questions then I’d watch a political debate.

*”Thors” are any Asgardian and/or Beta Ray Bill.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

Finally read that issue of She-Hulk. Once I got past the terrible fill-in art, it was okay. I’d enjoyed the first few issues of the new run but this was just okay.

Shocker himself seemed like a mixed bag. On the one hand, I appreciated his pragmatic worldview (“If you see a Hulk, you run. Same for Thors”)*. I thought the futile attempt to escape with only his mask, gauntlets, and underwear was hilarious. I liked that he was reasonable enough to know he was outmatched to quit while he was ahead and appreciative enough of the food that he was willing to help Jen.

On the other hand, I hated that he came off as brain damaged and was willing to blast himself with something meant of blow bank vaults in order to “knock [memories] loose”. I really hated the heavy-handed way they nearly broke the fourth wall by having Jen ask why he turned to crime if he was able to design the gauntlets. It’s made even worse by the way Herman doesn’t actually answer the question. If I wanted to see petty criminals weasel out of answering pandering questions then I’d watch a political debate.

*”Thors” are any Asgardian and/or Beta Ray Bill.

Thanks for the summary.

This seems like they've made a participant of The tv show Jackass with this constant garbage whether as a plot device, he's a pushover for other characters, or the crud of the highest he's going to kill murder members of a jury are you freakin kidding me.
He doesn't get any damn respect and it's a freakin mile high injustice.

It be best to reboot shocker so the garbage of this mire, and all other mire doesn't have to be explained as there are to many voodoo sharks to explain.
Also finally get the answers of why he turned to crime along with dropping out of high school, what does the professionalism mean in his own words, and if there is anything about of why he believes robbing banks and other illicit activities to get large amounts of money is going to result in having a professional reputation.

That's a trope made created by the egregious fourth movie Jaws the revenge.