Emma Frost = Bad Xmen

[Agent Z]

He kept choosing it. Even when he knew it could be wrong he didn't make choices to talk to his wife when she brought it up. He pretended nothing was wrong repeatedly. Even after Jean and Emma's reckoning he got up and left to a strip club. Scott stopped being a victim the second time he chose to talk and cheat on his wife.

Given he was traumatized by the possession I think it's obvious he wasn't thinking clearly. Jean flirting with Wolverine probably didn't help.

[Arya]

Given he was traumatized by the possession I think it's obvious he wasn't thinking clearly. Jean flirting with Wolverine probably didn't help.

Jean flirting with Logan had nothing to do with his lying. All he has to do was say I went to Emma because I can't talk to you. I am hurting help me. Not once did he do that. Emma counted on that to hurt Jean and cause damage.

[DDD]

It doesn't matter how many issues of Gen X there was, she never got any convincing "arc" before that. She changed within 2 issues and everybody accepted that. She never atoned for any of her murders, lives ruined, nothing.

Also, in what were the X-Men responsible for the Hellions deaths?

They weren't and Emma wasn't either. There's no correlation whatsoever between her being evil and the Hellions dying. It makes no sense that would be a catalyst for her to change.

Wolverine killed people because of revenge and having anger management problems. But that's ok because you know he does not do it for fun or profit.

She knew what she was doing. Would you trust a professional swindler with your bank account because you felt sorry for them?

Even after Jean and Emma's reckoning he got up and left to a strip club.

Emma was a vain airhead potential sex toy the whole time. Teaching her class to find celebrity gossip, name dropping designers even when nobody cared, talking about her surgery for attention, being upset at being called "old" by teenagers... Then her idea of making friends with Angel was to give her a make over. Even Wolverine and Cyclops only discussed how sexy she was.

She is simply a terrible character to have been the main focus of the franchise for so long. There is no consistency to her. She changes at the writers' whims.

[Baron of Faltine]

It doesn't matter how many issues of Gen X there was, she never got any convincing "arc" before that. She changed within 2 issues and everybody accepted that. She never atoned for any of her murders, lives ruined, nothing.

aaandd this could be true for a lot of character really. We could make a thread just for that "every character whose characterization had changed withtou apparent reason" albeit in this case there was that little thing of seeing the hellion murdered in front of her eyes, and being stuck in coma. And if you need to be parents to be traumatized by the death of someone, then you're a more cold hearted person than me.

She is simply a terrible character to have been the main focus of the franchise for so long. There is no consistency to her. She changes at the writers' whims.

Again changing at writers's whim is the whole point of marvel and DC comics as well as any long term series whose characters are run from different writers. We want to talk about Wolverine? Because at this point we can as well call in the thread stopper of Xboards in cause.

[Londo Bellian]

She has a Pikachu coffee mug; that's a plus for me. A minor irrelevant plus but one for me nonetheless. Search the Emma Appreciation thread.

[Gray Lensman]

DDD, I know you listed me as the guy to respond to, but I think you might have misquoted. I don't remember posting anything about the Hellions.

[yogaflame]

Everyone forgets that her transition involved a 75 issue series! before Grant Morrison used her.

75 issues that had her beat up children, make children fight against each other, kidnap children, telepathically manipulate children, trade children, endanger children and have one of her charges killed. And then she killed her sister, mindwiped/killed the police looking for her, and left the country. Abandoning her students.

Teacher of the year! SO heroic....

[sureshot]

I get your point DDD. Except your also ignoring that some of the other members on the X-men have done some questionable things as well IMO. You can't simply point at Emma Frost and say she is evil while ignoring the rest. Yes she was and to a certain extent a small part of her will always be. Yet the character at least until a writer retcons it has for the moment chosen to be a X-men. If they they were still able to accept Wilverine after he murdere his illegible children. They can't very well throw Emma out IMO. Not to mention the character is more interesting than some of the new ones IMO. I would take any comic wither her in over one with Goldballs, Glob or eyeball guy any day IMO.

[Londo Bellian]

Manga and independents end. Poor Marvel and DC characters must be published forever, ensuring that they eventually see themselves becoming The Villain *ahem!* convoluted messes of characterization and continuity. But someone will always read them anyway.

I can think of nothing more to say about Emma being a BAD X-Man or making the X-Men BAD by influence.

[airdreams]

I never cared for the Emma Frost character. To me she was always like the Evil Step-Mom that took Jeans place. And I don't know how Scott puts up with her. Shes always stomping him in his place. Wolverine wouldn't put up with that, he would of gutted her by now. But For years I just don't pick up the X-Men because she's become such a prime player in the Xbooks and the fact BMB uses her all the time has kept me away from the majority of Xbooks.

I've always saw her as a Villain. Its as if Poison Ivy was on the Justice League , it makes no sense to me. Whats the whole aura of why X-Fans think shes so great ? At this point in the Xbooks , if your not a fan of Frost , you might as well jump ship because shes dug into the X-Books like a Alabama tick. When I see her on the X- roster it just weighs down the team , putting them more into villain territory.

In a nut shell, you said nothing but "I don't like Emma Frost".

Yeah, I know.

[airdreams]

75 issues that had her beat up children, make children fight against each other, kidnap children, telepathically manipulate children, trade children, endanger children and have one of her charges killed. And then she killed her sister, mindwiped/killed the police looking for her, and left the country. Abandoning her students.

Teacher of the year! SO heroic....

I think you are purposely misleading fans who haven't read Gen X. Put aside your hatred on Emma even for a while and see her purpose of those things: she watched Synch and Skin fighting with a smile because she wanted to provoke students' aggressiveness, she kidnapped the students against their own will because she wanted to save them from Onslaught, she asked Adrienne for a loan because no one else could keep feeding the whole school at that time.

You can say she's not a good teacher, she's so bad at teaching that many of her students end up dead eventually, she always makes bad decisions, her ways of training are very ineffective for the kids and blah blah blah (I don't agree btw), but does any of them have something to do with her purpose? The answer is none. She does want to make them strong, she does want to save them, she does care for her students, yeah, sometimes she fails to do so, but her purposes are never changed.

Emma's way of becoming an X-Man was utterly compelling for me.

She had never been an arch-enemy of X-Men; there were many battles between the junior X-Men, the New Mutants, and Emma's own trained Hellion, with some New Mutants eventually switching teams as what began as a bitter enmity gradually became an un-serious "rivalry". Professor Xavier even believed that the purpose of Emma's school was instructional in the same manner as his; she had wanted to be a teacher, after all. That's why Xavier tried to console Emma after she found out the death of the Hellion and agreed to the Massachusetts Academy, then renamed the school for gifted youngsters, being used to train a new generation of mutants, as a gesture of faith; and Xavier let Emma be the tutor and headmistress of the school. When Banshee doubt if Emma was a good choice to be those kids' teacher, Xavier was the one who vouched for her in UXM 318.

Abandoning her students? NO. Emma went to Genosha because the Generation X team decided to go their own separate ways – even if she hadn't killed her sister, the Academy would be closed too. In Gen X #75, Emma talked with Xavier on phone and left in a helicopter; then we knew that she was teaching in the Genosha after that. Xavier helped to cover up for her from the investigation of Adrienne’s death. And in New X-Men #116, Jean Grey said to rescuers "Emma! She's one of us. X-Men!" All of those can indicate that Emma joining the X-Men was meticulously and originally planned, in a convincing way.

[Londo Bellian]

Now mind, I'm no Emma hater; I'm just miffed by some aspects of her character progression and publication history while gleefully fanboying over the rest of her package that I don't hate. There's not much in her entirety that that I'm on the fence about; I'm divided between like and dislike for Emma, not evenly but with no gray middle ground either. I always go back to GenX, before the dark finale arc.

[airdreams]

Now mind, I'm no Emma hater; I'm just miffed by some aspects of her character progression and publication history while gleefully fanboying over the rest of her package that I don't hate. There's not much in her entirety that that I'm on the fence about; I'm divided between like and dislike for Emma, not evenly but with no gray middle ground either. I always go back to GenX, before the dark finale arc.

I should have quoted the OP's post in #115, my bad.

Fans either love Emma or hate her and that's one of the reasons why she's such an interesting character lol.

[NewMutant]

Emma is questionable and leads to discussions like this; she has depth. THAT IS WHY I LIKE HER. It means she's interesting. Emma adds a more adult theme into the X-Men universe.

Many beloved pop culture characters are terrible people... Walter White, Tony Soprano, Dexter, the Bluth family in Arrested Development, hell even Karen from Will & Grace is a pretty terrible person but is still a fan favorite. Megan Mullally, the actress who played Karen, says people come up to her all the time saying, "I'm just like Karen," and her reply is "that's not a good thing." I might not like them in reality but this is fiction.

[Londo Bellian]

True. I mean, if ever a news story breaks out of a real-life beauty of a professional woman being exposed as following Emma's bearing, life philosophy and METHODS ,to say, get ahead and on top of the company shes's working for, and THEN have the audacity to claim Emma as a role model, I would damn her without hesitation.

Reality may be stranger than fiction, but fiction is still a tad safer, as long as it STAYS in fiction.