Monet St Croix (M) Appreciation Thread

[WallStreeter]

A black people, say African, does not have the extremely curly hair, of the ethnic form, that we all know, is by two great aspects.

1) It is multiracial, they have mixed races, that is so, you will not see in Africa, nobody with straight hair.

Unless you are getting as "black people" also different types and aborigines and Indians (from India or Indians from South or Central America), because if so, you are in a big mistake.

2) It is treated with chemicals, and obviously does not give a natural appearance of straight, , appearance obviously Monet and his sisters if they have, their hair is natural straight, and we have seen how is the father of Monet, so obviously the hair is inherited of the mother.

A black person will not have the natural type of hair that Monet has, unless, like her, it is a mixture of races.

:::::::::::::::::::::

And if it is, that some whites do not have straight hair, but one thing is curly, and another thing the ethnic hair type of black people, that when they have it more loose, it is evidently by mixture of races.

There are whites, Arabs, Berbers, Indians, and Asians in Africa. Of course there are people with straight hair from Africa. Not all African ethnic groups are "Black" either. There are mixed race people in Africa. Some Ethiopians have long wavy or curly hair because they mixed a lot with Middle Easterners (Arabs and Jews).

[WallStreeter]

Do you know how Roberto has hair? if it's not like Prodigy's for example.

And no, Roberto is not an African-American, because to start he's from Brazil.

And if perhaps this is a schock for you too, but Roberto has always been identified as Latin or multiracial, I advise you to read the first numbers of New Mutants.

Roberto's father was a black man, with all the associated phenotypic characteristics.

Roberto's mother was white and redhead.



So they represent Prodigy.







And that's how they represent Roberto.



I think there are obvious phenotypic characteristics, which make them quite different from each other.

Even in the movie, why was not it represented by someone black? anyway.


_______________


And yes, Monet is not of a specific race, so it has always been and always will be, for something comes from mixed races, and is something very noticeable in it. And marvel wants to leave her like that.

Not understanding and making M a black woman is why, when it is not the truth.

This is going way off subject, but I've known a number of Black Latinos to refer to themselves as Afro-Latinos, and many of these people were mixed race. Afro-Brazilian or Afro-Latino is a cultural, not explicitly a racial term. But that's way too much to get into here.

Re: Some mixed race people like President Obama and Halle Berry identify as Black. How people identify has nothing directly to do with their genes and does not follow their ancestry 100 percent. Monet does identify as Muslim, beyond that she has never mentioned how she identifies beyond being a mutant so that is hard to say.

[Tycon]

Do you know how Roberto has hair? if it's not like Prodigy's for example.

And no, Roberto is not an African-American, because to start he's from Brazil.

And if perhaps this is a schock for you too, but Roberto has always been identified as Latin or multiracial, I advise you to read the first numbers of New Mutants.

Roberto's father was a black man, with all the associated phenotypic characteristics.

Roberto's mother was white and redhead.



So they represent Prodigy.







And that's how they represent Roberto.

I think there are obvious phenotypic characteristics, which make them quite different from each other.

Even in the movie, why was not it represented by someone black? anyway.


_______________


And yes, Monet is not of a specific race, so it has always been and always will be, for something comes from mixed races, and is something very noticeable in it. And marvel wants to leave her like that.

Not understanding and making M a black woman is why, when it is not the truth.

Nope nope nope. Sunspot is black, and has been that way since his first appearance. Don't start making up stuff to fit your narrative.



You pointed out panels where Bobby is clearly whitewashed. And no one called Bobby "African American", we called him "AFRO LATINO." And he can't "identify as Latin or multiracial" because, first of all, Latin isn't a race. Second of all, show me anywhere where Bobby started calling himself "multiracial." It's 2018 and yet, people still don't known the difference between nationalities and races. Try again.

So no, Monet is black, and your arguments are getting repetitive and tiring.

[MYCMTSC]

I LOVE the idea of Kelly Thompson writing M and/or a new X-Factor.

Why are so many people in this thread against monet having any sort of emotional growth and want her only personality trait to be bitchy one liners. No jubilee and monet are not going to have their petty teenage "rivalry" go on forever. They've graduated from school, matured and are now in their early 20's so no they're not playing their game of cats and mouse anymore (looking at you christina strain and your terribly flat gen x run). It was written in canon (one of the very few good narrative arc pad wrote for monet) that monet hides behind an arrogant, egoistical and overly smug "m" persona as a copying mechanism for the trauma inflicted by emplate so i don't see why anyone would want monet characterisation clinging to that. Monet can be confident and extremely witty while still experiencing the full range of human emotion and being you know, happy and getting along with her fellow x-men.

I want her to have both. I think her relationship with Jubilee can be really nuanced (a la Wilson’s and Wood’s take on their friendship) but I think the zingers will always be a facet to their dynamic.

[Silver Fang]

Why are so many people in this thread against monet having any sort of emotional growth and want her only personality trait to be bitchy one liners. No jubilee and monet are not going to have their petty teenage "rivalry" go on forever. They've graduated from school, matured and are now in their early 20's so no they're not playing their game of cats and mouse anymore (looking at you christina strain and your terribly flat gen x run). It was written in canon (one of the very few good narrative arc pad wrote for monet) that monet hides behind an arrogant, egoistical and overly smug "m" persona as a copying mechanism for the trauma inflicted by emplate so i don't see why anyone would want monet characterisation clinging to that. Monet can be confident and extremely witty while still experiencing the full range of human emotion and being you know, happy and getting along with her fellow x-men.

Appreciate the African info. Always good to hear from someone who actually lives in the region to speak on the races & cultures.

Far as growth, I want that for Monet. I don't want her to just stay Ms. Perfect. That's why I loved her in Bunn's Uncanny X-Men. She seemed to have taken a darker turn as a character. She was working with the Hellfire Club, which isn't a group for pure upstanding citizens. Then her being a member of Magneto's team on top of it, who I believe has always been a mutant supremacist. Then Monet has lost 3 men she cared for, if not loved -open for debate. She's died, to learn there's no Heaven -only nothingness or Hell being your best choice, and she admits she was emotionally dumb after that experience.

I think if Bunn had kept her, we would've seen a lot of darkness in her. Not to say she's evil. But yeah, a darkness in her & many demons that have no fully been addressed.

Then there's her relationship to Creed. Many hated it because it was Creed, and we've seen him do lots of disgusting things personally. Even though they're probably cool with Daken & Deadpool, who aren't any better lol but that's another topic.. In any case, I think that relationship could've been very compelling. Some of Sabretooth's stories show he suffers with self-hatred, a cynical view of life, and has even stated he's been ready to die for years. Similar to Monet who seems to be very cynical, and states she has to chose not to kill herself everyday.

Both have mountains of issues, but hide them behind a facade of bravado & arrogance. Now these 2 aren't the only characters in Marvel to be this way. Almost everyone has some kind of sob story. But I think Creed would be the first person Monet connected to who may be able to really get her inner demons, darkness, and understand how continued abuse from her brother effects her due to being in the same boat himself, and taking such a personal interest in her that nobody else had in Uncanny. They were a team, but there wasn't much personal interaction. Creed's feelings & actions toward Monet was the only time things were personal. And she didn't trust him, so she ran hot & cold on him frequently. But even then, she did show or allow for some vulnerability around him that she doesn't share with everyone.

So both characters struggling to fight their darkness, and whatever influence they may have on each other could've made for a compelling read imo. But You know, that would lead to character development & depth, which Marvel is heavily against with many characters. Hence why damn near everything relating to Creed & Monet in Bunn's Uncanny run has been ignored.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Monet needs a bad boy...someone she can punch around and snuggle up to depending on the mood. Creed was good while he was inverted, but he's going back to being more vicious.

She can stay in limbo until better writers come along. Justifiably she has had a recent character arc.

[Silver Fang]

Monet needs a bad boy...someone she can punch around and snuggle up to depending on the mood. Creed was good while he was inverted, but he's going back to being more vicious.

She can stay in limbo until better writers come along. Justifiably she has had a recent character arc.

I think Inverted, or anti-hero Creed works with her. Both had a good dynamic. Hell I could imagine them roughly sparring with, and punching, each other to let off steam. lol

But anti-hero Creed. Not the serial killing one. Monet wouldn't be the least interested in that version. Hell when she saw a glimpse of that Creed, she got spooked. I see Cronet (not my name idea, but love it lol) like Bangel -Buffy x Angel. There's a good balance needed in the man for the heroine.

But yeah. Sadly, Creed's entire arc in Axis has amounted to nothing. There's no repercussions & he & Monet's Uncanny arcs and relationship has been dropped. Unless it's gonna be revealed that Creed's been hypnotized by Foreigner, and that's why he's bad again. Lord knows.

[Wolfsbane]

Monet’s skin tone changes/ethnicity have never really mattered to me. I just think she’s an awesome character with a lot of depth and has potential for great stories.

As far as relationships go, I did enjoy her and Guido.

[Triniking1234]

Monet’s skin tone changes/ethnicity have never really mattered to me. I just think she’s an awesome character with a lot of depth and has potential for great stories.

As far as relationships go, I did enjoy her and Guido.

Same here. I didn't really appreciate her since Gen X Vol. 1 was a hard book to get here in the 90s and early 2000s. Thank God Peter David added to X-Factor and writers kept using her since.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Same here. I didn't really appreciate her since Gen X Vol. 1 was a hard book to get here in the 90s and early 2000s. Thank God Peter David added to X-Factor and writers kept using her since.

"Why do you have a pillow? Are you going to smother yourself with it?"

LOL

[Tycon]

https://eggosandxmen.tumblr.com/post...-lighten-up-by

[responsarbre]

I don't love feeding into this argument, but re: skin-tone, I think the issue comes from the fact that, in his first appearances, Monet's dad appeared as white, and so did his father. Appearances since have portrayed him as being dark-skinned.

It's awkward to have these disputes about race when there's always been this weird ambiguity with M, and it's never really been set in stone. The white-washing, of course, is awful -- there's no reason to lighten a character's skin, ever, but it's a little dicey when you try to dig into what "race" someone is because race isn't a clear-cut thing IRL, and much less so in an ambiguous fiction.

My bigger problem with M's background isn't really anything to do with race, but how there's no interest in addressing her ethnic background! I've said this before, but Monet Yvette Clarisse Saint Croix has FIVE NAMES, and not a single one reflects her Algerian background, even though we know now that her mother raised the children as Muslim. I appreciate the nods to her heritage that some writers have pulled off — whether it was that one time she casually mentioned she has a place in Algiers, and Wilson wrote a more substantive issue of X-Men that she centered around Surat al-Fatiha — but it usually feels fleeting and inconsequential. There's a lot of places you could take the story of an Algerian living in diaspora in France, especially if you take class into account. I also want to see her have a deeper connection to her heritage. Like, she's supposed to be this international woman of mystery — how relevant is the "international" part to her life?

I would also be ecstatic if we got any evidence that she actually speaks Darija and/or Tamazight.

Monet nationality is serbian because she was born there during her parents skiing trip but that doesn't mean she's of serbian descent. Monet is actually french if I'm not mistaken because her father is the french ambassador in monaco. We don't know her father ethnic background but we know he's of french nationality and we know her mother is algerian ( i personally think her mother is sahrawi because i do believe she's black but itms never been confirmed in comics). Last point why does everyone cling to that one panel in gen x that said monet is of algerian royalty which is historically impossible because algeria never had a royal family.

I've been wondering about the Bosnia thing, because while Yugoslavia had birthright citizenship (meaning Monet would have been eligible to become a Yugoslav citizen on birth), Bosnia doesn't. I don't know if Monet's date of birth should be before or after 1993 at this point.

Actually, Algeria did have a royal family. The Zianide/Abd-al-Wad dynasty centered in Tlemcen (and later based in Algiers) lasted for a few hundred years and the kingdom they ruled was the was most recent antecedent to the idea of Algeria/the Central Maghreb as a coherent political division. To this day, Tlemceni wedding traditions (especially the wearing of the Chedda) are said to be directly derived from the Zianides.

In my head, I've always imagined Monet's mom being from Tlemcen because there are some stereotypes about Tlemcenis which fit Monet really well (high-maintenance, holier-than-thou, etc etc). Also, the Tlemceni dialect is really idiosyncratic and I can easily imagine Monet speaking it. (But also I speak Tlemceni so I know that this is a very self-serving headcanon LOL)

[frostedemma]

Actually, Algeria did have a royal family. The Zianide/Abd-al-Wad dynasty centered in Tlemcen (and later based in Algiers) lasted for a few hundred years and the kingdom they ruled was the was most recent antecedent to the idea of Algeria/the Central Maghreb as a coherent political division. To this day, Tlemceni wedding traditions (especially the wearing of the Chedda) are said to be directly derived from the Zianides.

In my head, I've always imagined Monet's mom being from Tlemcen because there are some stereotypes about Tlemcenis which fit Monet really well (high-maintenance, holier-than-thou, etc etc). Also, the Tlemceni dialect is really idiosyncratic and I can easily imagine Monet speaking it. (But also I speak Tlemceni so I know that this is a very self-serving headcanon LOL)

You're right about the Zianide/Abd-al-Wad dynasty but they rule ended around the 1500's when the Ottomans came to algeria. I'm pretty the writer said monet was a descendant of algerian royalty he was confusing morocco with algeria but thats a completely different topic.

I know in pad x-factor he wrote that monet spoke "arabic but only the curse words" but I've always personally rejected that because imo there's no way that monet with her genius level intellect isn't fluent in her mother tongue. To me PAD take on her religious and ethnic backgroup always felt so...watered down? Like he wanted a cookie for mentioning these aspect of monet background but without really putting an effort into it. He had monet said that she's muslim in a panel and a couple of issues later when terry asked her about being muslim she says "she doesn't think about it much" and again he has her speaking arabic "but only the curse words"

[Silver Fang]

You're right about the Zianide/Abd-al-Wad dynasty but they rule ended around the 1500's when the Ottomans came to algeria. I'm pretty the writer said monet was a descendant of algerian royalty he was confusing morocco with algeria but thats a completely different topic.

I know in pad x-factor he wrote that monet spoke "arabic but only the curse words" but I've always personally rejected that because imo there's no way that monet with her genius level intellect isn't fluent in her mother tongue. To me PAD take on her religious and ethnic backgroup always felt so...watered down? Like he wanted a cookie for mentioning these aspect of monet background but without really putting an effort into it. He had monet said that she's muslim in a panel and a couple of issues later when terry asked her about being muslim she says "she doesn't think about it much" and again he has her speaking arabic "but only the curse words"

Then look at what Monet said. She told Strong Guy that she's Muslim because her mom is from Algeria, and most of them are Muslims. Then she tells him to do the math.

Honestly, I never took Monet being Muslim seriously. Not because there's something wrong with it. But because PAD just seemed like he put it in just for the sake of making Monet a "typical Algerian." May be the same reason for changing her race -or skin tone from brown to fair-skinned or tan since "most Algerians are light or tan, not brown."

[frostedemma]

I always felt like illyana and monet would get along with you know both of them having deep rooted childhood trauma and having gone to hell and their personality compliment each other well. Monet could hande illyana no bullshit and brash personality very well