Why didn't Marvel push Monica Rambeau as Captain Marvel

[Hrist]

I'm sorry your going to have to explain to me about the 80s as some dark time for Monica when she was created, put right into Avengers, and eventually ascended to lead of the team during that time. Their is a fundamental strangeness to saying a character got "jobbed" when she was plugged right into the A-list team and eventually, given command.

When I say she was mishandled in the 80s I mean basically the whole incident which led to Roger Stern resigning/getting fired from Avengers. I thought in context that was pretty obvious, obviously before that happened Monica was at the height of her popularity and prominence.

I don't think the point of Galactic Storm was to make Steve look incompetent, though there was definitely a lot of questioning of his, hmmm, by the book heroism in the edgy 90s. But you get to a point where all the characters look murky and poorly written because of plots like The Crossing. Some of the super self-righteous Steve stuff that played into Galactic Storm was set up when Gruenwald did the "Steve never killed even in WW2" retcon, which has since been pretty much dropped from the character. I don't think Gruenwald did that to make Steve look bad, even if it reads goofy today. Similarly the John Walker as replacement Cap wasn't meant to show Steve as outmoded; it plays with that idea in order to reject it. Where Steve did get screwed over in the 90s was with the cancellation of the Mark Waid run for the infamous Liefeld Heroes Reborn volume.

I don't have actual evidence for this, just impressions from comics I haven't read in a while, but my guess as to why Carol didn't get the Captain Marvel codename immediately after Mar-Vell's death is because Claremont felt Carol's heroic journey that led to her becoming Binary (and thus having her own unique cosmic powers/codename) was more satisfying/progressive than her taking up someone else's legacy. I think you can argue about whether that was the right choice in retrospect.

[THANOSRULES]

When I say she was mishandled in the 80s I mean basically the whole incident which led to Roger Stern resigning/getting fired from Avengers. I thought in context that was pretty obvious, obviously before that happened Monica was at the height of her popularity and prominence.

I don't think the point of Galactic Storm was to make Steve look incompetent, though there was definitely a lot of questioning of his, hmmm, by the book heroism in the edgy 90s. But you get to a point where all the characters look murky and poorly written because of plots like The Crossing. Some of the super self-righteous Steve stuff that played into Galactic Storm was set up when Gruenwald did the "Steve never killed even in WW2" retcon was introduced, which has since been pretty much dropped from the character. I don't think Gruenwald did that to make Steve look bad, even if it reads goofy today. Similarly the John Walker as replacement Cap wasn't meant to show Steve as outmoded; it plays with that idea in order to reject it. Where Steve did get screwed over in the 90s was with the cancellation of the Mark Waid run for the infamous Liefeld Heroes Reborn volume.

I don't have actual evidence for this, just impressions from comics I haven't read in a while, but my guess as to why Carol didn't get the Captain Marvel codename immediately after Mar-Vell's death is because Claremont felt Carol's heroic journey that led to her becoming Binary (and thus having her own unique cosmic powers/codename) was more satisfying/progressive than her taking up someone else's legacy. I think you can argue about whether that was the right choice in retrospect.

Well said..I see..yes your thoughts are clearer now, I basically agree with every word here.

I think , as such your point with the horrid Avengers stuff for a chunk of the nineties, that was the place where Monica and many others, got jobbed...that everything was back burner ed for something as bad as the Harras era. I can be very nostalgic about the 90s...but even i hated that.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Marvel comics sidelines Captain Marvel in their audioversion of Marvel Superheroes Secret Wars

http://www.graphicaudiointernational...cret-wars.html

Contempt to the max towards marvel comics for this!

[Agent Z]

edit: never mind.

[krazijoe]

I prefer Monica as Captain Marvel and Carol as the lady who got her ass handed to her by Rogue.

[krazijoe]

When I say she was mishandled in the 80s I mean basically the whole incident which led to Roger Stern resigning/getting fired from Avengers. I thought in context that was pretty obvious, obviously before that happened Monica was at the height of her popularity and prominence.

I don't think the point of Galactic Storm was to make Steve look incompetent, though there was definitely a lot of questioning of his, hmmm, by the book heroism in the edgy 90s. But you get to a point where all the characters look murky and poorly written because of plots like The Crossing. Some of the super self-righteous Steve stuff that played into Galactic Storm was set up when Gruenwald did the "Steve never killed even in WW2" retcon was introduced, which has since been pretty much dropped from the character. I don't think Gruenwald did that to make Steve look bad, even if it reads goofy today. Similarly the John Walker as replacement Cap wasn't meant to show Steve as outmoded; it plays with that idea in order to reject it. Where Steve did get screwed over in the 90s was with the cancellation of the Mark Waid run for the infamous Liefeld Heroes Reborn volume.

I don't have actual evidence for this, just impressions from comics I haven't read in a while, but my guess as to why Carol didn't get the Captain Marvel codename immediately after Mar-Vell's death is because Claremont felt Carol's heroic journey that led to her becoming Binary (and thus having her own unique cosmic powers/codename) was more satisfying/progressive than her taking up someone else's legacy. I think you can argue about whether that was the right choice in retrospect.

It was the jackets...

[Project Initiative Cascada]

I prefer Monica as Captain Marvel and Carol as the lady who got her ass handed to her by Rogue.

Why don't you like Carol?

[krazijoe]

Why don't you like Carol?

I am fine with Carol.

[RafDanvers]

Simple. Monica just took the name, she doesnt have anything to do it it. Carol does. Carol is half Kree, heroic and this was always her role. Carol IS Captain Marvel. She was called Ms.Marvel, she grew to her fate. She always lived the legacy. This a very natural update for her. This is a mantle not a simple name. Monica is a cool hero and Spectrum really fits her.

Thank God the movie is coming, and she will be known as Captain Marvel for the general public forever.

[Hypestyle]

after The Perfect Guy comes out, hopefully Sanaa Lathan can be on the reference list for Monica...

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

I prefer Monica as Captain Marvel and Carol as the lady who got her ass handed to her by Rogue.

In the beginning of her comicbook existence the comicbook character Rogue was somebody to despise BUT remarkably she was set on a path these past 3 decades which made her a likable character, embraced by readers of marvel comics 'round the world.

[aja_christopher]

Don't really see much point in fighting over a name, especially since Spectrum and Binary (or Warbird) are better.

[AcesX1X]

Simple. Monica just took the name, she doesnt have anything to do it it. Carol does. Carol is half Kree, heroic and this was always her role.

excuse me, but monica is just as heroic as carol.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

I think it's the powers. Not their level, but their nature.

IMO, it's easier to sell a superhero concept as a stand-alone lead when the powers are visceral, involving punching/kicking and resisting punches/kicks, than when they are more esoteric. If the character can energy blast too, fine, but it's probably easier to get TPTB to buy into images of a hero punching a bad guy through a wall or vice versa.

Think carefully about the characters that have been able to maintain on-going solo titles over the years. Except for very special cases (Dr. Strange), all of them have had some kind of hand-to-hand technique as a central part of their schtick. Even DC's Green Lantern is rendered as punching with an extendable energy appendage in a lot of his fights.

I have always loved Monica and her powers, and always hated the continual claim-jumping of her names. She just has the misfortune of being an energy hero in a genre of brawling goons.

Captain Marvel being an energy hero is fine as is.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

I don't see how Carol's history with the original Captain Marvel is even important. Monica was already "Captain Marvel" while Carol was Ms Marvel back then.

Monica actually led the Avengers and was already a fairly high profile character. I would even argue she was much more prominent in the 1980s than Carol Danvers. Marvel could have easily pushed Monica as their "premiere" female character (like they are doing with Carol now) but for some reason as soon as Monica was taken off the Avengers they dropped her profile.

Marvel comics indeed could have with ease