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  1. #76
    The One Above All 616MarvelYear is LeapYear's Avatar
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    Default All-New All-Different All-Terrific CAPTAIN MARVEL!

    ASMANN16A.jpg
    Great cover!
    Imperius Rex!
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/.../74396-9Bk.jpg
    It's clobberin' time! Hulk is strongest one there is! Have at thee!
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/...74396-51Bk.jpg
    I'm the best there is at what I do, but what I do best isn't very nice.
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/...74396-43Bk.jpg

  2. #77
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 616MarvelYear is LeapYear View Post
    ASMANN16A.jpg
    Great cover!
    Yeah, it's pretty cool. I sort of wish she'd kept the wing things as a part of her costume. It gave her a unique look.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike82 View Post
    Well, she IS Captain Marvel, so it makes sense making her more of a cosmic character. I know what you're thinking. Carol should be on Earth so she can team up with Spider-Man. Sorry, its not going to happen.
    Well. Let's see what the future brings with the new creative team. But my feeling is that the father away Carol's from Earth, the less relatable she'll become. Historically speaking, Carol has always work best Earthbond rather than spacebond.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinFan4880 View Post
    It is going to take a A-list creative team to rehabilitate Monica and make her relevant again. Until then, she will just continue to listlessly exist.

    As one of the few female POC characters in Marvels Avengers roster, she will probably get that rehabilitation sooner rather than later. Like the Guardians, it will come a year or two before the movie premie.
    Let Captain Marvel's rehabilitation be sooner.
    Imperius Rex!
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/.../74396-9Bk.jpg
    It's clobberin' time! Hulk is strongest one there is! Have at thee!
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/...74396-51Bk.jpg
    I'm the best there is at what I do, but what I do best isn't very nice.
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/...74396-43Bk.jpg

  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    I haven't read through this whole thread, so forgive if someone's already said this, but I think one of the reasons Monica got short shrift is that they gave her the "Captain Marvel" name without having it tie in to the previous CM mythology at all. It seemed kind of random - like Marvel just had the name sitting around. Mar-Vell was a big part of Marvel mythology, so that when anyone wanted to revive his legacy (Genis-Vell pun intended), the name just seemed more fitting for other characters like Genis or Carol, leaving Monica without a legacy or mythology of her own.

  6. #81
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    I think it's the powers. Not their level, but their nature.

    IMO, it's easier to sell a superhero concept as a stand-alone lead when the powers are visceral, involving punching/kicking and resisting punches/kicks, than when they are more esoteric. If the character can energy blast too, fine, but it's probably easier to get TPTB to buy into images of a hero punching a bad guy through a wall or vice versa.

    Think carefully about the characters that have been able to maintain on-going solo titles over the years. Except for very special cases (Dr. Strange), all of them have had some kind of hand-to-hand technique as a central part of their schtick. Even DC's Green Lantern is rendered as punching with an extendable energy appendage in a lot of his fights.

    I have always loved Monica and her powers, and always hated the continual claim-jumping of her names. She just has the misfortune of being an energy hero in a genre of brawling goons.

  7. #82
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    Lightbulb TO ME, the answer!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins View Post
    Racism, ultimately.
    I have found out not only about racism but ALSO about mocking and harassment ;

    http://www.avclub.com/article/marvel...l-corps-218003

    ...there is a serious racism problem in the Carol Corps that unfortunately hasnít been addressed.
    ...the behavior of some Carol Corps members to mock and even harass fans who prefer Rambeau has not been adequetly addressed.
    ...the truth of the matter is that it was a Carol Danvers book from the outset, which was a choice, and one that the Carol Corps is basing their behavior on. As long as fans of a woman of color character feel unsafe in the Carol Corps, they have a major racism problem that shows no indication of being resolved.


    This article is, to me, very enlightening. I am very grateful to be made aware of this.
    CM pushed aside.jpgCM pushed aside 2.jpg
    Like the marvel characters from the 20th century to me this century they are akin to bullies I have to oppose the mocking and harassment.

    All for the golden glistening avenger Captain Marvel!!!
    Golden Glistening Avenger Captain Marvel.jpg
    Imperius Rex!
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/.../74396-9Bk.jpg
    It's clobberin' time! Hulk is strongest one there is! Have at thee!
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/...74396-51Bk.jpg
    I'm the best there is at what I do, but what I do best isn't very nice.
    http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/...74396-43Bk.jpg

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by 616MarvelYear is LeapYear View Post
    I have found out not only about racism but ALSO about mocking and harassment ;

    http://www.avclub.com/article/marvel...l-corps-218003

    ...there is a serious racism problem in the Carol Corps that unfortunately hasn’t been addressed.
    ...the behavior of some Carol Corps members to mock and even harass fans who prefer Rambeau has not been adequetly addressed.
    ...the truth of the matter is that it was a Carol Danvers book from the outset, which was a choice, and one that the Carol Corps is basing their behavior on. As long as fans of a woman of color character feel unsafe in the Carol Corps, they have a major racism problem that shows no indication of being resolved.


    This article is, to me, very enlightening. I am very grateful to be made aware of this.
    CM pushed aside.jpgCM pushed aside 2.jpg
    Like the marvel characters from the 20th century to me this century they are akin to bullies I have to oppose the mocking and harassment.

    All for the golden glistening avenger Captain Marvel!!!
    Golden Glistening Avenger Captain Marvel.jpg
    Hmm, I don't know about this...this article seems to be trying to make it a Monica vs Carol issue. I don't think that's what's going on at all. And why did they ignore Genis taking Monica's code name ( twice!) and Phylla using the CM name? And since when are Monica fans being bullied by KSD fans? I'm not sure I buy the writer's thesis...

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by 616MarvelYear is LeapYear View Post
    I have found out not only about racism but ALSO about mocking and harassment ;

    http://www.avclub.com/article/marvel...l-corps-218003

    ...there is a serious racism problem in the Carol Corps that unfortunately hasn’t been addressed.
    ...the behavior of some Carol Corps members to mock and even harass fans who prefer Rambeau has not been adequetly addressed.
    ...the truth of the matter is that it was a Carol Danvers book from the outset, which was a choice, and one that the Carol Corps is basing their behavior on. As long as fans of a woman of color character feel unsafe in the Carol Corps, they have a major racism problem that shows no indication of being resolved.


    This article is, to me, very enlightening. I am very grateful to be made aware of this.
    CM pushed aside.jpgCM pushed aside 2.jpg
    Like the marvel characters from the 20th century to me this century they are akin to bullies I have to oppose the mocking and harassment.

    All for the golden glistening avenger Captain Marvel!!!
    Golden Glistening Avenger Captain Marvel.jpg
    Sorry, but Monica fell off long ago before Carol became popular again. Monica had her time to shine as Captain Marvel. Its no surprise they made Carol Captain Marvel, as she was always the more fitting choice for Captain Marvel. Give it a rest.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    When I first started reading the Avengers, Monica Rambeau led the team as Captain Marvel and had a pretty high profile.

    She also had a pretty awesome power set.

    I'm not saying that Carol Danvers should be pushed aside but I'm just curious as to why exactly didn't push Monica Rambeau more as one of Marvel's premiere female characters.
    Because Carol Danvers is a way bigger, more well know character; and she has a longer history with Captain Marvel?

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by simbob4000 View Post
    Because Carol Danvers is a way bigger, more well know character; and she has a longer history with Captain Marvel?
    I don't see how Carol's history with the original Captain Marvel is even important. Monica was already "Captain Marvel" while Carol was Ms Marvel back then.

    Monica actually led the Avengers and was already a fairly high profile character. I would even argue she was much more prominent in the 1980s than Carol Danvers. Marvel could have easily pushed Monica as their "premiere" female character (like they are doing with Carol now) but for some reason as soon as Monica was taken off the Avengers they dropped her profile.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I don't see how Carol's history with the original Captain Marvel is even important. Monica was already "Captain Marvel" while Carol was Ms Marvel back then.

    Monica actually led the Avengers and was already a fairly high profile character. I would even argue she was much more prominent in the 1980s than Carol Danvers. Marvel could have easily pushed Monica as their "premiere" female character (like they are doing with Carol now) but for some reason as soon as Monica was taken off the Avengers they dropped her profile.
    And Danvers was part of the whole Captain Marvel thing before Monica was even a character. She's a bigger character, she's been around longer, and she's got a history with Captain Marvel that goes back further. She was also more prominent in the '80s, same with the '90s.

    A better question would probably be why after buy Marvelman didn't Marvel just add him to the Marvel Universe as the new Captain Marvel? Why after buying Marvelman do you make Danvers Captain Marvel while also putting her in a very Marvelmanesque costume?

  13. #88
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    And Danvers was part of the whole Captain Marvel thing before Monica was even a character.
    Marvel knew this but still gave Monica the name. That's why I said that it was irrelevant at the time. If Marvel had a Captain Marvel who was female and who they positioned as major character, why drop the character unceremoniously like that considering the position they already gave her in their universe? It just seemed a bit odd that Marvel would create a new character, give her the Captain Marvel name, have her lead the Avengers and feature prominently in a major event (Secret Wars) only to later completely side line the character.

    She's a bigger character, she's been around longer, and she's got a history with Captain Marvel that goes back further. She was also more prominent in the '80s, same with the '90s
    .

    No doubt, Carol has been around longer, no one is debating that. However,she's a bigger character now because Marvel has positioned her as so which is part of the original question, why didn't Marvel position Monica like that? Carol Danvers was NOT more prominent in the 80s because she only made sporadic appearances then as Binary and later on as Warbird. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I do agree though that from 1990s up until now Carol has been far more prominent.

    A better question would probably be why after buy Marvelman didn't Marvel just add him to the Marvel Universe as the new Captain Marvel? Why after buying Marvelman do you make Danvers Captain Marvel while also putting her in a very Marvelmanesque costume?
    Apparanently, Marvel plan to add Marvelman to their universe. That could change though.
    Last edited by Username taken; 08-18-2015 at 12:00 AM.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Marvel knew this but still gave Monica the name. That's why I said that it was irrelevant at the time. If Marvel had a Captain Marvel who was female and who they positioned as major character, why drop the character unceremoniously like that considering the position they already gave her in their universe? It just seemed a bit odd that Marvel would create a new character, give her the Captain Marvel name, have her lead the Avengers and feature prominently in a major event (Secret Wars) only to later completely side line the character.
    It's not odd, Marvel needs to put out comics with the title Captain Marvel every so often. This time they're just doing it with a character more people know. Maybe they could have gotten Warren Ellis to launch a Captain Marvel series with Monica or something, but they didn't, whatever, who really cares?

    No doubt, Carol has been around longer, no one is debating that. However,she's a bigger character now because Marvel has positioned her as so which is part of the original question, why didn't Marvel position Monica like that? Carol Danvers was NOT more prominent in the 80s because she only made sporadic appearances then as Binary and later on as Warbird. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I do agree though that from 1990s up until now Carol has been far more prominent.
    Why didn't Marvel position Monica like that? Because Monica isn't as big. Danvers isn't big because Marvel said it's time for the character to be big. She's just big, so Marvel is riding that. Maybe someone even wanted to write? I don't know. It's not like when Marvel started gearing up to do movies, so they started pushing the Avengers even as the X-Men titles were still their biggest sellers.

    And those X-Men comics she was showing up in, in the '80s, where bigger than the Avengers stuff.

    Apparanently, Marvel plan to add Marvelman to their universe. That could change though.
    They are? I didn't know that. I haven't really heard much of anything about what they want to do with that characters since they bought him.

  15. #90
    Rookie Member Ronin0985's Avatar
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    As other have said in previous pages on this thread, she was objectively a victim of the industry politics of the era of her creation. No one wanted to seriously use her after Stern moved on because of the creator control movement, which made her an easy mark when Grunewald wanted to return Steve Rogers to being the leader of the Avengers. The name issue is just criminally bad timing. Carol was in de-powered limbo when Monica was introduced, only for Carol to re-powered in the Binary story line a few months later. Which I think only piled on top Grunewald's desires and lead her to her own time in comic book limbo in the 90's.

    The Marvelman thing reads like a replay of the Capt. Marvel legal saga with DC. Marvel probably just wants the character's trademark and copyright off the market for the same branding reasons that they snatched the Capt. Marvel trademark out from under DC's nose. Although, I guess they may do something with him later, but that's hard to see given that he's basically a Billy Baston clone and Marvel already gets enough heat for having a couple of Superman clones running around.

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