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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Default Superman #42 discussion thread (spoilers)

    I guess we should make a separate thread from the preview thread.

    I think the story is kind of interesting, but at the same time, it feels like a chore just to get to the big story that's been hyped since the spring. At least it's progressing, and Lois confirmed her suspicions. Sometimes, a story's hype is its worst enemy.

  2. #2

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    Urg why did they have Superman use his flare power again for no reason? The guys he was fighting should have been total pushovers for him and yet he's all "I can only hold them off for ten minutes"

    It's really dumb that he keeps whipping out something that should only be used as a last resort on stuff he should be able to handle easily.

  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Part of me wonders if they're just utilizing the flare so much because they'll be rid of it once he gets his powers back later on. In regards to the story though, ever since we found out that he'd been taking less and less time to recharge after it, part of me has been assuming that he's using it so much so that he'll become so acclimated to it that it won't require any recharge at all. That in essence he's both training his body and fighting the bad guys at the same time.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 07-29-2015 at 07:45 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Darth Kal-el's Avatar
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    I remember that issue in the early nineties when Lois found out the secret and though she was thrown you could tell she would be a true partner. I am happy in this continuity Lois and Clark will not be together because she is not a partner or friend. She is the enemy is sheep's clothing. Look how Jimmy reacted verses her. She made it about herself and I have no doubt the reason for her outing him will be selfish either career or hurt feelings. I hope Clark and Jimmy never forgive her and Lana or WW pummels her into next week.

    The issue was good. Yang is still finding his footing. Toyota's art definitely improved.

    So did mystery guy after the flair take Clark's powers for good. Is that the moment of the depowering. Is he supposed to be part of this organization or someone else entirely

  5. #5
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    I haven't bought or read this yet...and based on all the "this proves Lois is a b!tch" talk I'm hearing all over, I'm wondering if I should. It almost seems my worst fears of the effect of this story and Lois' treatment may be coming true after all.



    spoilers:
    Is it true HOADR is pretty much dealt with in this issue, meaning that Lois revelation of the secret next issue may not be connected directly to saving Clark from blackmail after all?
    end of spoilers

  6. #6
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Kal-el View Post
    I remember that issue in the early nineties when Lois found out the secret and though she was thrown you could tell she would be a true partner. I am happy in this continuity Lois and Clark will not be together because she is not a partner or friend. She is the enemy is sheep's clothing. Look how Jimmy reacted verses her. She made it about herself and I have no doubt the reason for her outing him will be selfish either career or hurt feelings. I hope Clark and Jimmy never forgive her and Lana or WW pummels her into next week.

    The issue was good. Yang is still finding his footing. Toyota's art definitely improved.
    New artist on the title?

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Kal-el View Post
    I remember that issue in the early nineties when Lois found out the secret and though she was thrown you could tell she would be a true partner. I am happy in this continuity Lois and Clark will not be together because she is not a partner or friend. She is the enemy is sheep's clothing. Look how Jimmy reacted verses her. She made it about herself and I have no doubt the reason for her outing him will be selfish either career or hurt feelings. I hope Clark and Jimmy never forgive her and Lana or WW pummels her into next week.
    Though Lois and Clark aren't as close as they have been in other continuities at the time she learns the secret, she and Clark are still friends and have been through a lot together. Below are all images and quotes that are in continuity and not mind-whammy moments between Clark and Lois, for example.


    Also, for the record, other Lois Lanes who have found out Clark's secret also got angry, and just like the mature and good person that she and Clark are, they work on their relationship, they come to understand, to mend, and to even love and get married. Take a look at this to see the truth and below for a sample.


    "This was a highly inauspicious moment for the two of them, Superman and Lois Lane. There are a lot of inauspicious moments in the course of such discussions between people who are momentarily insecure and in love. The purpose of such discussions is to slide headlong at these moments, bump around a bit, deal with them, and eventually resolve whatever it is at issue." -- Miracle Monday

    As for Superman #42, one reason Lois' reaction differs from Jimmy's is probably because while Jimmy knew that Clark was confiding in him, Lois had to find out for herself because, as she said, "Jimmy got the truth" and she "got the lie." As a result, she doesn't feel like Clark treated her as much of a partner or friend even before this and for no good reason.

    If you've been paying attention to the interviews the creators of this arc have given, they don't seem to be approaching Lois' outing Clark as a selfish or spiteful act. Pak even called Lois a hero. They've described her as having complex motivations, and there is already a set up with Hordr which is still a threat. That you continue to employ violent language to describe your reaction to a character, specifically a female character, is disturbing to say the least. Your wishes also don't seem likely to come true with Clark already calling Lois in Batman/Superman and Wonder Woman seeking Lois' help in a future Superman/Wonder Woman.

    I suggest, though, that if you are dissatisfied with how Lois has been characterized here, you take it up with the creators themselves as they seem to think they're doing great things for Lois.
    Last edited by misslane; 07-30-2015 at 12:16 AM.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I haven't bought or read this yet...and based on all the "this proves Lois is a b!tch" talk I'm hearing all over, I'm wondering if I should. It almost seems my worst fears of the effect of this story and Lois' treatment may be coming true after all.
    While I can't say I completely love how Yang characterized Lois in this issue, I don't think it is as bad as some of the reactions here are making it out to be. Plus, it seems some who are saying terrible things have always hated Lois so they would have hated her regardless and are predisposed not to give her any empathy or slack.



    spoilers:
    Is it true HOADR is pretty much dealt with in this issue, meaning that Lois revelation of the secret next issue may not be connected directly to saving Clark from blackmail after all?
    end of spoilers
    The short answer, I believe, is no. Yang pretty much confirmed that the matter isn't over in the interviews he gave today.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Darth Kal-el's Avatar
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    I enjoy the book but don't like Lois but that's part of the story and I don't blame writers for different interpretations of characters. I just don't think Lois is a good friend. The reaction was mean and didn't give Clark a chance to talk. Plus her spying on him was creepy enough. Next issue is called betrayal. The blackmailing will probably factor in but it will be complex. I think her main motivation will be the story and her hurt ego. She is proving despite their closeness as friends over the years, she is not a true one. She heard the consequences of this coming out and doesn't care. Plus with him losing his powers in this issue it's like kicking someone when they are down and especially Clark because he is not in a position to defend his loved ones. Clark's phone call from Batman/Superman did not show forgiveness. He was still furious and we don't know why WW contacts her yet. But I don't see Diana wanting to be bffs. Probably something to help Clark and she has no choice. Also sorry you were offended by wanting Lana, a true friend to Clark, to pummel her. I don't condone violence in real life but this is comics, fictional stories I don't take to seriously. I would love a scene where Lana at least verbally attacks Lois over her actions. Hopefully lots of characters throw some shade her way


    Also before more blaming OOC writing for Lois, it's my opinion that this is completely in character for her current continuity character. When she was in a coma and was astral projectioning all around Metropolis she basically reacted the same. She kinda yelled at Clark and told him she would expose him. It's kinda why he trusts Lana and Jimmy over her

    I also cannot speak for others who don't like current Lois but I am not predisposed to dislike her. I was a huge fan of Bryne/Jurgens Triangle Lois. I loved the marriage and was really upset when flashpoint took it away. I plan to buy the upcoming Jurgens book. But eventually realized the new continuity gave writers new ideas to play with like the Superman and Wonder Woman relationship and now a Lois who would betray her best friend for a story. It's new and interesting ideas that are entertaining. This reveal and betrayal wouldn't be half as interesting if it didn't come from his best friend. So I like Lois historically. But now I have a Lois I love to hate and with the upcoming book it's the best of both worlds
    Last edited by Darth Kal-el; 07-30-2015 at 12:55 AM.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Kal-el View Post
    I enjoy the book but don't like Lois but that's part of the story and I don't blame writers for different interpretations of characters. I just don't think Lois is a good friend. The reaction was mean and didn't give Clark a chance to talk. Plus her spying on him was creepy enough. Next issue is called betrayal. The blackmailing will probably factor in but it will be complex. I think her main motivation will be the story and her hurt ego. She is proving despite their closeness as friends over the years, she is not a true one. She heard the consequences of this coming out and doesn't care. Plus with him losing his powers in this issue it's like kicking someone when they are down and especially Clark because he is not in a position to defend his loved ones. Clark's phone call from Batman/Superman did not show forgiveness. He was still furious and we don't know why WW contacts her yet. But I don't see Diana wanting to be bffs. Probably something to help Clark and she has no choice
    But you should blame the writers because, as far as I can tell from their interviews, they don't seem to have intended for Lois to come across as selfish or a bad friend yet that is how you are interpreting her character.

    I understand that it can be frustrating for Clark to want to talk, but because he can't have his cake and eat it too. He can't lie to Lois and trust others before he trusts her (in fact, he never trusts her)--all actions that aren't those of someone who feels someone else is their partner and friend--and expect Lois to not feel as if he's betrayed her and hurt her. Clark, because of his lies, in a sense gave up his right to talk first. This is Lois' time to say how she feels, since this is all new to her. It wasn't exactly the best time to have a heart to heart anyway, so the shortness of the conversation isn't entirely her fault either.

    You say you think Lois' main motivation will be her hurt ego and grabbing a headline, but as far as I know from interviews, that doesn't seem like it will be the case. I brought up Clark's call to Lois in Batman/Superman to illustrate that Clark is already feeling a pull toward Lois. Even though there's still some tension between them, he's open to reaching out to her and takes her advice to heart. All is not lost between them.

    I guess I just think you're seeing things, especially Lois, as worse than they are. However, based on the way this has been marketed and the way the story was written to not give as much time and space to this new wrinkle in Lois and Clark's dynamic, I can sort of see where you're coming from. It's partly why I've been annoyed with this storyline since it was promoted back in the Spring. I hope, for both our sakes, that the story ends up better for Lois than it may appear at the moment.

  11. #11
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I haven't bought or read this yet...and based on all the "this proves Lois is a b!tch" talk I'm hearing all over, I'm wondering if I should. It almost seems my worst fears of the effect of this story and Lois' treatment may be coming true after all.



    spoilers:
    Is it true HOADR is pretty much dealt with in this issue, meaning that Lois revelation of the secret next issue may not be connected directly to saving Clark from blackmail after all?
    end of spoilers
    I must say I'm a bit suprised by some of the fans' reactions. I mean, yeah, she gets pissed off because he didn't tell her and stuff, but that's about it. And frankly, if you put yourself in he shoes for 5 minutes, it's kind of understandable, y'know. They're supposed to be friends -both his personnas-and he has been lying to her face for years. Now, we know he had reasons because we've been following the show for the last 4 years, but she didn't.
    Besides, it's far from the first time Lois reacted to the discovery with anger, for instance in Miracle Monday or All Star Superman. So, to me at least, it didn't feel that far off.
    As for HORDR, nah, it's definitively not over. Basically, the leader escapes and he still knows who Clark is which, considering that Clark reacted to is attempt at blackmail by destroying his "evil campus", which basically screams "reckonning".
    Overall, I thought it was interesting. I like the concept behind the bad guys.
    Last edited by Auguste Dupin; 07-30-2015 at 01:08 AM.
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
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  12. #12
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Kal-el View Post
    I enjoy the book but don't like Lois but that's part of the story and I don't blame writers for different interpretations of characters. I just don't think Lois is a good friend. The reaction was mean and didn't give Clark a chance to talk. Plus her spying on him was creepy enough.
    When, exactly, did she 'spy' on Clark? She noticed Superman was slowing down, getting hurt when he ordinarily wouldn't. She was chasing that down - an aspect that goes side-by-side with her following (not stalking or spying on, there are distinctions) Superman since day one.

    The reaction was confrontational - and, in my opinion, underlined the fact that Clark has been getting sloppier as Superman - and only happened because Clark had completely (for a few moments) set aside the distinction between 'Clark' and 'Superman'. He used his abilities in front of her and specifically mentioned hearing no heartbeats. To a certain degree, it was akin to the reveal in the second Donner movie - the secret was out but he was still trying to rein it in, so she called him out on it and made it clear that she already knew.

    Next issue is called betrayal. The blackmailing will probably factor in but it will be complex. I think her main motivation will be the story and her hurt ego. She is proving despite their closeness as friends over the years, she is not a true one. She heard the consequences of this coming out and doesn't care. Plus with him losing his powers in this issue it's like kicking someone when they are down and especially Clark because he is not in a position to defend his loved ones.
    Perhaps we have different end panels to this issue? I saw a very concerned Lois - a very caring one.

    Also before more blaming OOC writing for Lois, it's my opinion that this is completely in character for her current continuity character. When she was in a coma and was astral projectioning all around Metropolis she basically reacted the same. She kinda yelled at Clark and told him she would expose him. It's kinda why he trusts Lana and Jimmy over her
    The same one many interpreted as protecting Clark and the secret way back in the beginning of the New52? The one who made excuses for him?

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    I wasn't crazy about Lois in here (her anger was understandable and certainly in some aspects justifiable, but the whole "You're Superman! Why would you want to be normal?!" line was ridiculous), but it wasn't a fraction as bad as I had feared, and she gets some solid bits too - manofsteel and any others concerned on that front, I make no promises about the future, but this issue was fine enough on that front. As for the rest of the issue, I wouldn't call this A-list or even B-list mainsteam superhero comics (though maybe it squeaks into a C+/B-), which is especially a shame after having just read and loved American Born Chinese for the first time, but it's perfectly solid and promising stuff, definitely better than the last issue, and answers like what happened to his powers seem to be trickling in. Still wondering and concerned all things considered how much influence JRJR is levying here.

    Side note, I get he's humble, but I'm somewhat surprised how overwhelmed and excited Yang comes off as in his recent interview for being treated decently and as an equal by the Superman team when he got the job as the guy that was side-by-side with DeConnick, Aaron, Vaughn, Wilson and Morrison as competitors for the Best Writer Eisner and is now the guy who just beat them all, unless he's had some crappy experiences in the past on that front. Or maybe he's just a really nice dude.
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  14. #14
    Mighty Member nightw1ng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gold_guardian View Post
    Urg why did they have Superman use his flare power again for no reason? The guys he was fighting should have been total pushovers for him and yet he's all "I can only hold them off for ten minutes"

    It's really dumb that he keeps whipping out something that should only be used as a last resort on stuff he should be able to handle easily.
    I felt the exact same way. They are writing Superman to be so cavalier with this solar flare power. He is experienced and powerful enough to handle almost any situation, so it's extremely foolish of him to use a power he is not fully in control of yet and that would disable him for a limited time, especially when there are lives on the line that may require his help after the battle. I hope once his powers return to full strength after this temporary powered-down status quo, they'll drop the solar flare.

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I haven't bought or read this yet...and based on all the "this proves Lois is a b!tch" talk I'm hearing all over, I'm wondering if I should. It almost seems my worst fears of the effect of this story and Lois' treatment may be coming true after all.



    spoilers:
    Is it true HOADR is pretty much dealt with in this issue, meaning that Lois revelation of the secret next issue may not be connected directly to saving Clark from blackmail after all?
    end of spoilers
    Its being exaggerated, imo. Her first reaction is to be kinda hurt he didn't confide in her. The most supportive position to take? Maybe not. A reasonable reaction from any normal person after finding out your friend is keeping such a large secret from you and furthermore felt comfortable telling another friend other than you? I think it is. Its not a perfect mary sue "I'll stand by you" initial reaction. But that's what makes it interesting, imo.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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