DC is still trying to find Wonder Woman?

[Lex Luthor]

when asked about writers NOT building on past wonder woman ideas Gail Simone responded

Yeah, absolutely true. I think part of it is that editorial hasn’t really found a version they believe in 100%.

Like, I was not allowed to use Greg Rucka’s brilliant version of the gods. Similarly, I’m sure writers were asked not to refer to my additions to the myth. Or maybe they just didn’t like them or didn’t read it, I don’t know.

But my entire plan was, EVERYTHING HAPPENED. My idea was that ever version of Wonder Woman was in the myth somewhere. So I tried not to negate previous stories, even if I thought those stories were awful.

In retrospect, I don’t know if that was a worthwhile idea. It took tremendous effort and it might have been baffling to newer readers. But I was proud that I didn’t tear things down to try to tell my stories.

There are two things I really wish new writers kept, maybe it’s vanity or maybe it’s because I think they are solid ideas.

One is, I think the origin story I had for Diana’s costume was very tight, and less convoluted than the previous one (which I still tried to keep in continuity). And I think having the island guarded by megalodons is a fun idea that makes a lot of sense. I can certainly see not keeping the gorillas, that could get tiresome over time, maybe.

The cool thing is, David Finch says he’s promised to bring the megs back, so THANK YOU, DAVID!

SOURCE: http://gailsimone.tumblr.com/post/12...s-that-marston


apparently DC has trouble finding how to approach her which is why i think there is so much of a problem trying to figure out who she is

Discuss.

[numberthirty]

That would explain why they gave Azzarello/Chiang a blank slate when the "New52" started.

[Sacred Knight]

This was painfully apparent pre-New 52. A new creative team meant everything was washed away And creative teams changed often. It was exhausting. While the jump from Azz/Chiang to the Finches has had its share of problems, at least its carried over fairly steady from a point of view of the established mythos. Its still clearly carrying on and building upon themes from that run, not tossing everything aside. A sign that hopefully they're getting over being so damn jumpy with the character.

[borntohula]

I hope the Multiversity-route opens her character up for writers.

[Dr. Poison]

This has been pretty apparent since JMS' run. Even now, Wonder Woman is portrayed quite differently in the different comics she appears in. I'm hoping now that Geoff Johns has found some major appreciation for the character, he'll work to make sure her world is built up and kept consistent across the various books and media she appears in.

[Silvanus]

This has been pretty apparent since JMS' run. Even now, Wonder Woman is portrayed quite differently in the different comics she appears in. I'm hoping now that Geoff Johns has found some major appreciation for the character, he'll work to make sure her world is built up and kept consistent across the various books and media she appears in.

Hasn't it been pretty apparent since the late 1940's? Marston, as a psychologist who saw his comic as part of a larger project of emotional education and social change. had a pretty unique and even idiosyncratic vision, so it's not surprising that DC didn't know quite what to do it. They let Kanigher, it's editor and new writer, decide, and he stripped out the philosophical/sexual subtext and a lot of the feminism, and then embarked on a bunch of experiments--origin tweaks or alternative origins, supporting cast changes, etc.--that suggest that he himself didn't quite know what to do with her, even within his own run. And then there was the "all-new" mod Wonder Woman. Other old characters have gone through a lot of changes too, but Wonder Woman's case seems to have been aggravated by the fact that the creator adn the company had pretty different agendas for the book in the first place.

[Dr. Poison]

Hasn't it been pretty apparent since the late 1940's? Marston, as a psychologist who saw his comic as part of a larger project of emotional education and social change. had a pretty unique and even idiosyncratic vision, so it's not surprising that DC didn't know quite what to do it. They let Kanigher, it's editor and new writer, decide, and he stripped out the philosophical/sexual subtext and a lot of the feminism, and then embarked on a bunch of experiments--origin tweaks or alternative origins, supporting cast changes, etc.--that suggest that he himself didn't quite know what to do with her, even within his own run. And then there was the "all-new" mod Wonder Woman. Other old characters have gone through a lot of changes too, but Wonder Woman's case seems to have been aggravated by the fact that the creator adn the company had pretty different agendas for the book in the first place.

That's very true but I think from Perez's reboot through JMS's run, things were pretty consistent for her. Not every single thing stayed the same but for the most part, she wore the same costume, had the same powers/accessories, regular adversaries(Cheetah, Circe, Ares, Silver Swan, Dr. Psycho), and lack of a real love interest. She did move around a bit from Boston to Gateway to NYC but those moves only brought on a couple of new supporting characters with each. I guess Heinberg's run was a bit of a reinvention as Diana Prince was back in full effect and Wonder Woman was a founding member of the JLA again but her personality, powers, and villains were pretty much the same.

[Darius]

Hasn't it been pretty apparent since the late 1940's? Marston, as a psychologist who saw his comic as part of a larger project of emotional education and social change. had a pretty unique and even idiosyncratic vision, so it's not surprising that DC didn't know quite what to do it. They let Kanigher, it's editor and new writer, decide, and he stripped out the philosophical/sexual subtext and a lot of the feminism, and then embarked on a bunch of experiments--origin tweaks or alternative origins, supporting cast changes, etc.--that suggest that he himself didn't quite know what to do with her, even within his own run. And then there was the "all-new" mod Wonder Woman. Other old characters have gone through a lot of changes too, but Wonder Woman's case seems to have been aggravated by the fact that the creator adn the company had pretty different agendas for the book in the first place.

There is also the CCA and congressional hearings to take into account. WW, the Amazons and the Holiday Girls were heavily criticized as lesbian material that had no place in comics. Kanigher, unlike Marston, didn't have the clout or seemingly the interest to fight for the themes Marston used to create WW and the book slid into a more romance based title for girls than a story about awesome women aimed at boys and girls.

[Silvanus]

There is also the CCA and congressional hearings to take into account. WW, the Amazons and the Holiday Girls were heavily criticized as lesbian material that had no place in comics. Kanigher, unlike Marston, didn't have the clout or seemingly the interest to fight for the themes Marston used to create WW and the book slid into a more romance based title for girls than a story about awesome women aimed at boys and girls.

True. I didn't mean to blame Kanigher personally, but more to say the disjunction between Marston's goals (help transform society by teaching girls to be independent of men and and boy to be submissive to women) and DC's goal (just make a comic book that will sell and not be too controversial, while maybe acquiring a veneer or educational respectability) kind of made it inevitable that there would be conflicting visions for the book (maybe even more than for most long-running comics) as it went forward.

Maybe the best thing to now is to see if the lack of one coherent vision can be treated as a strength, in that maybe it leaves each creative team would a little more freedom to contribute its own unique and interesting perspective on the character, with fewer absolute "musts" that have to be honored than we see in the history of some other books. I kind of agree with Simone that it's good to assume that "everything happened"--but I don't think everything has to be acknowledged in every run. Everything's still there in the history of the character and can be revived as needed, but each run should be able to find its own focus, which is likely to involve leaving a lot of old stuff in out as well as putting a lot of old stuff in, along with all the new stuff.

[Batknight]

Nice to see someone confirm the obvious. Yeah I've been saying this forever now, but the reason why Wonder Woman is so less popular than Batman and Superman...or even Green Lantern for that matter is that she lacks a properly built upon mythology. Not much has been allowed to become a establish part of her lore and it's badly hurt the character.

[Nyssane]

True. I didn't mean to blame Kanigher personally, but more to say the disjunction between Marston's goals (help transform society by teaching girls to be independent of men and and boy to be submissive to women) and DC's goal (just make a comic book that will sell and not be too controversial, while maybe acquiring a veneer or educational respectability) kind of made it inevitable that there would be conflicting visions for the book (maybe even more than for most long-running comics) as it went forward.

I think Kanigher does deserve much of the blame. Yes, the CCA had a large impact, but Kanigher was the first in a string of writers to go off in a completely different direction of what the previous writer had done. Kanigher ditched Etta, ditched the Holliday Girls, ditched almost every villain that Marston had set up for her (I think the Duke of Deception is the only one who remained as a major foe). He seemed to set the standard for writers who came after.

Really, the only writers to acknowledge past runs in any sort of significance were Jimenez and to a lesser degree Rucka and Simone. Everyone else seemed eager to rid WW's world of anything that came before it, and that's really tragic. Wonder Woman as a franchise will never get the respect that Batman's, Superman's, or Green Lantern's has if this trend continues.

[mathew101281]

Thanks, this really confirms what I always thought the issue is. Wonder Woman needs a definitive version that takes the best elements from previous versions and melds them into a coherent version. Anything else will be just repeating the same mistake they keep making. As much as I liked the Azz/Chiang run it pretty much suffers from the same problem.

[SiegePerilous02]

Hopefully the movies will help solidify things a little better. That's pretty much how Superman and Batman became as consistent and popular as they are, through other media. None of the reboots in the comics count for jack in the long term, because without the media push, everything fades or struggles to stay afloat.

[Vaffrey]

I get what she was doing and, in particular, why. I can totally appreciate that.

I remember being disappointed, though, that she didn't take advantage of the Infinite Crisis continuity tweak to make a few other adjustments. For example, Perez's horrible mistake of aging up Steve Trevor, taking away a meaningful function for him in the book by removing his role as love interest and not replacing it with anything other than older friend. That was still possible, since we had only had a glimpse of him in Heinberg's story and not really much after that, iirc.

And she was saddled with the story abortion that was Amazons Attack! -- and apparently was forbidden from using any writerly tools to wipe that away.

[LCI]

This is sad. DC should have more faith in Wonder Woman.

That said, I don't quite understand what Gail's point was with creating Genocide considering Deva already existed. They're designs were even kinda similar.
Also, why can't Wonder Woman's costume explanation just be the Flag of Themyscira? It's supposed to represent her country (originally America). It makes more sense to have a half red and blue flag with a Silver Eagle and some stars representing the gods rather than "Blood red moon, Golden Eagle, star spangled sky" being the reason.
Of course, the number of stars would just be like five for the creators of the Amazons (Athena, Artemis, Aphrodite, Hestia borne from Gaia's womb...sorry Demeter and Hermes, you guys are out in my book).

But yeah, it's probably DC's fault mostly. Don't like the megadolons though, it's about high time Themyscira became part of the world already (I think it was during Rucka's time).

Hopefully the movies will help solidify things a little better. That's pretty much how Superman and Batman became as consistent and popular as they are, through other media. None of the reboots in the comics count for jack in the long term, because without the media push, everything fades or struggles to stay afloat.

Really, it's the animated cartoons. Batman has had more animated cartoons than any of the other superheroes. That's honestly what I think helps solidify a fan base, because children become fans and they take that into their adulthood.

Wonder Woman needs an animated series more than anything. And a really good one too! Think Batman TAS. That's why everyone loves Batgod now.