Captain Marvel / Shazam Appreciaton

[J. D. Guy]

She mentioned something called the Wonderlands. A lot of the old Mary Marvel covers came to my mind when she mentioned it.

Yep, "Wonderlands", that's what it was!

[adkal]

One adendum to something I wrote earlier.

The worst thing to ever happen to the Captain Marvel character was Distant Fires. I don’t think there’s any lower to go.

I enjoyed the artwork and the general story, but Billy's fall...

That's something that shouldn't have happened... but it's Elseworlds and that's one of the things about those books:

In Elseworlds, super-heroes are taken from their usual settings and put into strange times and places - some that have existed, and others that can't, couldn't or shouldn't exist. The result is stories that make characters who are as familiar as yesterday seem as fresh as tomorrow.

Just as the characterisation of Superman in Act of God shouldn't have happened, but did

[SilverWarriorWolf]

I enjoyed the artwork and the general story, but Billy's fall...

That's something that shouldn't have happened... but it's Elseworlds and that's one of the things about those books:



Just as the characterisation of Superman in Act of God shouldn't have happened, but did

Oh man. Can’t agree more with you there. Act of God should have been renamed “Everyone kiss Batman’s feet! Oh, and by the way, Clark/Diana OPT!”

Wirh Distant Fires, the problem is it’s another “Captain Marvel and Superman have to be at odds because their powers are too similar” stories, and tossed it into a love triangle with Wonder Woman. :P I’m sorry, Superman and Wonder Woman I don’t mind (though I prefer Clark/Lois and Diana/Steve), but Billy being in a love triangle with them feels just wrong and icky in so many ways. It just makes it worse that they derailed him to make him the bad guy of the set! Over all, I’m glad it’s Elseworlds, because I never want to see anything like this even near canon.

[Güicho]

They could have did it that way, but it wouldn't have had the same impact and conveyance of the themes they were conveying if they did it like that...... showing the facades' cracks carried the impact and conveyed the themes of the story better.

Exactly you are not told outright he's perfect this time.
Instead like the Wizard, like Billy himself, you the reader are also supposed to doubt a little, be wondering if this is the right kid?
It ads to the wonder, a little simple drama, any kid could get.

Yet for some adults there supposedly wasn't enough early clues as to Billy's good side?

My point is they should have hinted to that earlier...

They did.



That clue comes like lightning! Literally: You see Billy alone saying "they don't know me" as he absolutely shows regret for having hurt someone, somone like him who has lost their family, he clutches the bag holding the single remnants of his own family.
At that moment .....lightning literally strikes!

It's the first time you see the Wizard! Why then? What does he see in Billy here? Obviously connecting and hinting to another side being recognized and shown in Billy, a beautiful and powerful hint of what's coming.
You instantly know there is more to Billy than what he's been putting out there.
The clue literally hits like lightning!

Yet somehow they missed it completely?

Listing :

I mean, show him feeding a stray cat, or making a slight move to help another kid,

That they in fact show him sneaking away to feed a giant cat!
And that he goes out of his way - not just to help one kid from the bullies, but many, to protect his whole family, all early hints telegraphing Billy's true nature.
Yet they somehow missed it all?
I mean it's fine not to like the story, if you read it, but then also to become one of the loud voices against it, without having read it seems odd.
Speaks to some reading it blindly looking to hate it, or sadly just going by others reviews, then complaining before reading it themselves.

Although I think maybe they've come around, which is terrific?!

In a way, it acts like a secret test of character for the persons reading the story that is juxtaposed alongside the one we see Billy struggle and go through in the book.

Love your interpretation, ...Brilliant!!!

[Güicho]

Looking at that scene again ^ , there are actually three talking beings highlighted there.
Very Beauty & the Beast(ish):
The mirror, the bell-jar which turns out to contain Mr. Mind, and the third is a talking Knights armor. Which has SHAZAM logo emblazoned on the shoulder, and wrist guard.
Also a lethal looking scar across the chest.
Does this visual reference anything/anyone from one of the past Fawcett stories?




?

Interesting. I obviously need to reread the story again, because I forgot a few of these details - the being in the mirror and spirit trapped within the suit of armor in the Rock of Eternity.

Yeah the story is quite rich, every time I skim through it, I get something new I'd only casually absorbed. Last month it was that Adam actually refers to Billy's "Enchanting your Animal Avatar", an acknowledgment which to me implied it's maybe something they could all eventually do. Now while discussing the mirror, it wasn't till I went to grab those images above, I really noticed not only Mr. Mind was already there, discussing Billy, but the Knight standing and talking there too.
Book is full of magic!

For the mirror, I'm going to start scouring wikias for Shazam villainesses who may make sense as a captured/cursed occupant. Maybe it's a known, popular Shazam foe with a thematic twist? Hmmm...

Also, for reference, the lady trapped in the mirror is named Francesca, for anyone who did not know her name. If I recall, she name-drops something that gives me "Through the Looking Glass" vibes, but presumably we'll know more in time. I don't think she's going anywhere.

Yeah, also the fact that she is together with Mr. Mind there, (yet still guided Billy) made her presence there a little more ominous.
Thanks J. D. Guy, totally spaced that they did giver her a name "Francesca"
WonderScott let us know what else you find.

She mentioned something called the Wonderlands. A lot of the old Mary Marvel covers came to my mind when she mentioned it.

That is interesting.
While speaking on Billy's mortality and mistakes, she mentions we are all fallible, and it's how she ended up :"The face of the Wonderlands".
Which again paints her maybe as a once fallen hero or villain, maybe seeking redemption here? Also may explain why she is also there with Mr. Mind? \...and that strange Knight?

As to the Mary covers? Please elaborate, you mean just visually, or does Mary actually reference "the Wonderlands?

I wonder if Mr. Mind is a long-lived species that attacked Earth at a previous point in time and was brought to the Rock of Eternity for incarceration? Or if time passes differently/more slowly in the RoE, compared to the outside realms?

I do look forward to getting more back-story, and with the new solicitations, already setting up for the return of the Monster Society, it's quite exciting.

I'm guessing the suit of armor belongs to a former, Medieval champion of Shazam that we never heard of before and maybe we'll get a time's past take, similar to Black Adam's origin.

Yes they seem very invested in who the new champion will be. But is it something they want, or something they are concerned about?

As for the talk of visiting the seven realms (I think that's the total number mentioned) in the new series, I wonder if the realms have any correlation between Mamaragan and the other wizards and sorceresses present in the Circle/Council of Eternity from the Free Comic Day Shazam story from a few years ago?

In story the Rock is referenced as "a Nexus to the Magic Realms"
Although it looks like they've gone up one, Francesca only mentions "six".
And now in the new solits, they specifically reference Seven realms.
I didn't even notice Mamaragan had a name, I guess I better look up "the Free Comic Day Shazam story", as well as read; I guess it's the Trinity War? Where Sivana resurrects Adam, and Mamaragan shows up again, and is given a name?
Is that where that takes place?

I'd love to learn more about all those characters and they're seven in number.
Attachment 70907

So they could each represent a Nexus to one of these "Realms".?
I guess i never actually counted them, as you indicate there are seven.

And the biggest mystery of all, what was up with the random snowman in a doorway at the Rock of Eternity? LOL!

[Knightmare]

The final nail in the coffin is here folks, it's official!

[byrd156]

The final nail in the coffin is here folks, it's official!

I was debating posting this in here as a joke but it's here now.

[Güicho]

The final nail in the coffin is here folks, it's official!

Trailer looks great.
LOL at all those endlessly whining about the name change, who didn't think these movies were the game changer, and still think Marvel's Captain Marvel wasn't or wouldn't be an issue in how the General public would view and associate the name brand Captain Marvel.

This^ is who the general audience would and will associate with the name Captain Marvel.
Despite us knowing the history.
The name "Captain Marvel" for DC other then as a pointless little self-serving wink to us comic fans (which is a tiny audience which feels they need to get pandered to), The brand name Captain Marvel is and has been useless to DC/WB.
It's been this way since the 70's.
And the Marvel movie explosion nailed it shut, when they made the announcement years ago. - https://community.cbr.com/showthread...l=1#post380763
And still people complain. LOL!

And yes I can love both Billy Batson and Carol Danvers characters! DC and Marvel, I always have.
And embrace SHAZAM! for Billy, it doesn't make me a traitor, or sell out.

Damn that trailer looks terrific.
Also that trailer shames DC/WB's handling the GL franchise, all over again.

[byrd156]

I really wish there was a 90s song like Nirvana or Pearl Jam or something. Otherwise I'm hyped and hope DC can start making consistently good movies.

[Knightmare]

Trailer looks great.
LOL at all those endlessly whining about the name change, who didn't think these movies were the game changer, and still think Marvel's Captain Marvel wasn't or wouldn't be an issue in how the General public would view and associate the name brand Captain Marvel.

This^ is who the general audience would and will associate with the name Captain Marvel.
Despite us knowing the history.
The name "Captain Marvel" for DC other then as a pointless little self-serving wink to us comic fans (which is a tiny audience which feels they need to get pandered to), The brand name Captain Marvel is useless to DC/WB.
It's been this way since the 70's.
And the Marvel movie explosion nailed it shut, when they made the announcement years ago. - https://community.cbr.com/showthread...l=1#post380763
And still people complain. LOL!

And yes I can love both characters! Billy Batson and Carol Danvers.
And embrace SHAZAM! for Billy, it doesn't make me a traitor, or sell out.

Damn that trailer looks terrific.
Also shames DC/WB's handling the GL franchise, all over again.

The trailer might look visually great, but it was actually pretty boring. I don't know if you felt excited for the movie after seeing the trailer, but I didin't.

Marvel may have announced the movie was happening, but until a trailer is put down those are just words these days. Hence the trailer making it official!

I never really had a problem with the name change, I'll always refer to Billy Batson as Captain Marvel. However the level of disrespect shown by Marvel since gaining the rights to the name has annoyed me.





Using "Earth's Mightiest Hero" as a tag line is just pure disrespect in my opinion. Plus Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel is just a boring SJW/Feminist character that can't carry her own title, maybe the 4th relaunch will be the charm?

[Güicho]

So cute, i love that cover.


Yeah we posted and discussed those covers years ago when they came out, and later blatant Marvel oversteps too- https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post1599543
As well as once upon a time Rick Johns version clanging his power bands being replaced by the Adult Captain Marvel

It's not something new.
A few fans wanting to be the latest to grand stand "..but I will never call him by the name SHAZAM!" is just that.
Good for them! Be that last to start a new thread whining about it, we have like 50 threads going complaining about it already LOL! And it comes like clockwork here too. ...meanwhile ...Marvel has and will continue exploit the name to any end.

Love SHAZAM!

[Knightmare]

Yeah we posted and discussed those covers years ago when they came out.
As well as once upon a time Rick Johns version clanging his power bands being replaced by the Adult Captain Marvel

It's not something new.
A few fans wanting to be the latest to grand stand "..but I will never call him that" is just that.
Good for them! ..meanwhile ...Marvel has and will continue exploit the name to any end.

Hey it's a personal choice and I happen to like grand standing! Beside DC still call Billy Captain Marvel from time to time (Young Justice).

[Güicho]

Hey it's a personal choice and I happen to like grand standing!

LOL.
Well done! I'm right behind you.
Hey Sandberg did say we will get a Captain Marvel name drop in the movie "for the fans", lets see how well that nod lands, or if it blows up in their face.

[J. D. Guy]

Personally, I disagree, but that’s a matter of how much brattishness you can tolerate.

I think the idea was/is to transcend the notion of "tolerating brattishness" altogether, especially, as mentioned, because the brattishness in this case was a facade.

I’d love to introduce them as normal, and then build (through character development) to the point where Adam can share his powers with them the way Billy does with the Shazamily, so the mirror could be complete.

Building them up from "normal" for Black Adam and allowing him to rediscover his humanity through them (just enough for them to be Adam's moral anchors and drop him down to a stable Anti-Hero) would be brilliant.

[SilverWarriorWolf]

I think the idea was/is to transcend the notion of "tolerating brattishness" altogether, especially, as mentioned, because the brattishness in this case was a facade.

I just don’t enjoy reading about that sort of thing, facade or no. If you enjoyed it with that knowledge, more power to you. It’s just a matter of opinion.

Building them up from "normal" for Black Adam and allowing him to rediscover his humanity through them (just enough for them to be Adam's moral anchors and drop him down to a stable Anti-Hero) would be brilliant.

Exactly! It would build up an exciting set of new supporting characters, ground Adam a bit more, and allow for the analogies between Adam and Billy to continue. The only caviot is don’t just build them up to messily murder them later. That would be a waste of characters.