Captain Marvel / Shazam Appreciaton

[Ares]

Something about that last shot of Cap looking down at the world as the music swells gets me everytime I watch it.

[Ares]

I also think that Cap's rogue's gallery is actually one of the best in comics, it's just that more needs to be done with them. Some of them could use some minor tweaking, but for the most part they're a wonderful collection of bad guys.

Dr. Sivana: Cap's classic foe, probably the iconic "mad scientist" in fiction now that Lex Luthor is more of an evil Tony Stark these days, equal parts scientist and industrialist. Sivana works great as science without conscience, someone who will advance scientific understanding primarily to fuel his own desire for power, no matter who gets hurt. If anything he should gleefully embrace mad scientist sterotypes purely because of how fun they are.

Black Adam: The opposite number, Johns kind of dropped the ball with Adam in the Nu-52, removing a lot of the complexity he'd given the villain. Adam works best as a kind of cautionary tale, one who shows why it's important for Billy to turn back into his mortal form. Adam has lost his connection to humanity and sees himself as a god. By turning back into their human forms, the Marvel Family avoid this and remain grounded. Adam likely works best as a kind of Dr. Doom, ruler of his own nation, powerful, intelligent, with some genuine nobility that is unfortunately usually overshadowed by anger and a desire for power.

Mr. Mind: The invader. Mr. Mind actually works really well as an organizer, someone who gets groups of disparate individuals to join together in a Monster Society. Mr. Mind also just works as this genius psychic alien that is an expert in genetic manipulation, often creating his own monsters from scratch. Mr. Mind could easily be the source of a lot of monsters in the DCU with his experiments.

Captain Nazi: The anti-paragon. A flying powerhouse who embodies the worst of Nazi ideals makes for a great enemy to the Marvel Family and the DCU. Nazi was also one of the Marvel Family villains that did see use outside of Cap’s books, usually in the JSA or Wonder Woman, though rarely to much effect. The idea of Captain Nazi leading a group of villains that are either surviving Nazi supervillains from WWII or their legacy villains is pretty genius, and would be a good way to tie into the All-Star Squadron days. Break out Baron Blitzkreig and similar villains.

Oggar, the World’s Mightiest Immortal: A powerful spellcaster who also has impressive physical powers makes for a good villain. His rivalry with Circe can also make for some unique ties to the Wonder Woman mythos, and he can serve as a genuine mystical threat to the DCU. He could do with a looks upgrade to add some grandeur to his appearance, as his biggest failing was that he's just a guy in a green robe.

King Kull: I’d actually play up a kind of H. P. Lovecraft/Robert E. Howard vibe with this character. I mean, he’s an ancient warrior king/man beast from before recorded history, whose people ruled the world before humanity rose up to overthrow them, and now uses a combination of exceptional physical might, warrior skill and strange technology to threaten the world. Whereas classic Kull had more traditional technology, I’d again go full on Lovecraft, making manbeast technology “wrong” somehow, alien, unnatural.

Mr. Atom: Mr. Atom was basically Ultron long before there was an Ultron, and a nearly invincible atomic robot is never a bad thing. He could do with a slight looks update, but he should always make for a fun menace.

More thoughts later.

[dswynne]

I always like the intro and closing themes of the 80's Shazam animated series.

My SECOND most favorite, since it included the rest of the family. 😀

[dswynne]

@ Ares' revamp villains list:

Dr. Sivana: I saw him more weird science than mad science, in that what he does borders on magic. Nevertheless, he is more towards Marvel's Mad Thinker with a touch of Doctor Doom w/o the charm and nobility. His evolution would be similar to what was going on in THE CURSE OF SHAZAM, where a Tony Stark-type devolves into the Sivana we know, thanks to his attempts at "techno-magic".

More to come later, since I am typing this on my phone...

[dswynne]

@ Ares' revamp villains list (Cont.):

Black Adam: I don't see anything that I would add or change, other than wanting the so-called "Black Marvel Family" to return, so, moving on...

Mister Mind: No particular change, but I would add the more creepy, alien feel to the character. I would also add that the character is a "hive mind", rather than a singular entity that goes from world to world to "suck a planet" dry, essentially rendering all life on that world extinct, before moving on. In addition, I would add to the fact that Mister Mind's weakness is "magic", not magic itself, but the idea of magic as defined by the DCU, which is why he would be forced to team up with the likes of Dr. Sivana in forming his "Monster Society" (a name that the media would come up with.

Captain Nazi: For the most part, no change in concept, other than he would be the benefactor of the Thule Society's harnessing of stolen boons of figures of Norse lore. And that brings me to...

Oggar, the World's Mightiest Immortal: Oggar would be the antithesis of the wizard Shazam, as ruler of "The Pit of Infinity" (or something to that effect). There would be a connection between Oggar and Shazam would remain somewhat a mystery (or it could have been something as simple as Oggar being a protege of Shazam). Nevertheless, the wizard Oggar, condemned to the Pit of Infinity, hatches plots against Shazam, such as the corruption of Teth Adam and Dr. Sivana, having alliances with Mister Mind and King Kull, and the creation of "champions" such as Captain Nazi and Sabbac, etc. Since Oggar is stuck in the Pit, he uses others, directly or indirectly, to guide events to his desired goal: to rule all of Reality. If he can undermine his former mentor, he can then set upon cementing the Rock of Eternity into the Pit of Infinity, and thus cause all of Creation to restart, but with Oggar in full control to reshape it to his hearts desire.

King Kull: No change, though a bit problematic since there is Vandal Savage around.

Mister Atom: No change either, but more "Firestorm", with Mister Atom being a possessed atomic suit, possessed by those who fell victim to the horrors of nuclear catastrophes (from Madame Curie to the dropping of atomic bomb on Hiroshima to 3-mile Island). Mister Atom himself would be an "elemental" of a modern age.

Mister Banjo: A grifter/con-man who is more comic relief, and would be a perfect foil to Uncle Marvel (maybe they are cousins?).

Crocodile Men: This, I would change. It would be Sobek, the crocodile god, ally of Black Adam and the Black Marvel Family, and father of a race of sentient crocodiles known as the "Sons of Sobek". However, the media simply refer to as "Crocodile Men". And the interesting part? They have "human" forms (though still appear pretty thuggish), making them sort of like "were-crocs" (though only the uninitiated would be so hyperbolic in describing an ancient race who are descendants of a Nile god).

More later.

[dswynne]

[dswynne]

Should DC put out a SHAZAM CHALLENGE, just like they are doing with a KAMANDI CHALLENGE, where a bunch of writers and artists get together to craft their own SHAZAM stories? I'd buy it...

[J. D. Guy]

I love this pic! Do you know who made it?


And by the way, for those more in the know, how closer are we to that Shazam Family book that we were allegedly promised?

[dswynne]

I love this pic! Do you know who made it?


And by the way, for those more in the know, how closer are we to that Shazam Family book that we were allegedly promised?

To your first question: This was done by an artist named "SEN", and you can find her work here.

To your second question: who knows? I assume will have something in the near future...whenever that will be.

[J. D. Guy]

To your first question: This was done by an artist named "SEN", and you can find her work here.

To your second question: who knows? I assume will have something in the near future...whenever that will be.

Thanks for the first answer, and for the second, well, I'm still hoping that it'll be apart of Rebirth's alleged second wave of comics. The only worry about that is that we should be hearing something about it by now and/or soon.

[dswynne]

[Ales]

I'm sure it has come up earlier but I can't find a refference to it in this thread. Shazam isn't part of Hitch's Justice League aparently. Is there an in-story reason given somewhere why he suddenly disapeared from the roster after Rebirth?

[maxmcco]

I'm sure it has come up earlier but I can't find a refference to it in this thread. Shazam isn't part of Hitch's Justice League aparently. Is there an in-story reason given somewhere why he suddenly disapeared from the roster after Rebirth?

No in-story explanation for his absence. Since DC Universe Rebirth, Cap has appeared only once very briefly back in June in the Hellblazer Rebirth #1.

[Stanlos]

Heya Stan. Doing good, thanks. How about yourself?

I am doing well!! It's always a delight running into the veterans from the old Black and Blue DC Boards. I hope that you get to write for the Marvel Family one day and soon.

[dswynne]

Is a "perfect" Captain Marvel/SHAZAM means having a "Gary Stu"? character?

As I re-read some of the proposals, I begin to see a familiar pattern, one similar to the character Rey from Star Wars: The Force Awakens. And it seems like we want a perfect version of "Billy" who has little to no flaws, and who is always capable of "saving the day". Should "Billy" have the type of pathos that he has to overcome while being the best hero he can be? After all, Billy is an orphan with a tough life, and yet he appears to be optimistic, like your typical Orphan Annie?

In any story, there should be an antagonist. There is MAN v. MAN, there is MAN v. NATURE, MAN v. Society, and there is MAN v. SELF. The first is obvious, thanks to threats ranging from Dr. Sivana to Black Adam and so on. The second is not as obvious. Sure, we have Billy stopping a natural disaster, but how would he do if he was placed in a similar situation like in SUPERMAN THE MOVIE (when Superman had to tackle Lex Luthor's land scheme in California)? The last two would more interesting to explore. In fact, we get something like that in "Convergence: Shazam!" when Billy had to deal with the hopelessness of not being able to do anything for a year, while trying to keep a city calm in the face of uncertainty. Those stories are worth exploring more, IMO.

But, regardless, I do hope that whatever pathos that is to be explored with Billy, it is balanced with a sense of optimism. After all, regardless of Billy's snarky attitude, he has the obligation to protect others, because it is the right thing to do. And just maybe, that will give Billy a brighter outlook on life.