Captain Marvel / Shazam Appreciaton

[SelinaK12]

http://thedorkreview.blogspot.com/20...alex-ross.html
http://thedorkreview.blogspot.com/20...d-captain.html

[Phoenixx9]

captain marvel once made marvelium.the first time he made it in a lab and another time he made it with his bare hands
Attachment 64926Attachment 64927Attachment 64928

I knew of Supermanium and Amazonium, but not Marvelium!

[Güicho]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah! - https://www.cbr.com/shazam-marvel-family-cast-brody/

the cast appears to have grown by five as the upcoming DCEU film has filled out its Marvel Family — or, as it was rebranded with The New 52, The Shazam Family.

....the New 52 origin of Shazam, DC had Billy Batson’s foster family shares in his magic, becoming adult superheroes alongside him. This is seemingly the case for the film version of the franchise.

Holy Moly! They did it!
My favorite part of the story Billy sharing the power with his new family.

Adam Brody = adult Freddy Freeman
Michelle Borth = adult Mary ?
Ross Butler = adult Eugene
Meagan Good = adult Darla
D. J. Cotrona = adult Pedro

I love this cast:

Solomon / Wisdom = Eugene



Hercules / Strength = Pedro


Achilles / Courage = Mary



continued...

[Güicho]

Zeus / Power = Billy


Atlas / Stamina = Freddy



Mercury / Speed = Darla


Love all the cast, love the costume, (and that they didn't use blond Freddy), love the source material/story, both classic and new52 version they are using as the source material.
That humanized Billy, not born some impossibly perfect kid, but one who struggles, even lashes out, angry to belong to something a family again, for fear of losing them
Of course the story shows, it's what he wants all along is a family, and the desire to share with them, and belong to something bigger, very true to the classic character.

https://scontent-sin6-2.cdninstagram...19332608_n.jpg

My biggest concern/hope now is they don't turn Dr. Sivana (Mark Strong) into a brawler character. While he has explored that to hysterical effects, He should ultimately be the science guy, manipulating things behind the scenes.
And that in their big reveal it's Teth Adam (Dwayne Johnson) who shows up at the end to nab the power!
Prompting Billy to "share" it with his family, and the final big fight is between them and (not Sivana) but Adam.


And now they just need to launch the comic again!

[SelinaK12]

my idea of the marvel/shazam family is:
Captain Marvel
Captain Marvel Jr
Mary Marvel
Kid Eternity
Ibis The Invincible Protege Daniel Khalifa
Darla
Eugene
Pedro

[Güicho]

my idea of the marvel/shazam family is:
Captain Marvel
Captain Marvel Jr
Mary Marvel
Kid Eternity
Ibis The Invincible Protege Daniel Khalifa
Darla
Eugene
Pedro

I like your team!
Although I feel the SHAZAMily powered Lieutenant Marvels (whatever we are calling them now?) Mary, Freddy, Eugene, Darla & Pedro, should remain as a unique shazam-powered group that Billy only sometimes calls on, separate from his other main team.

That if Billy Shazam/Captain Marvel was to ever be a regular on: I'de want to see him in his own Shazam's Squadron of Justice/Fawcett City Crusaders.
Using updates of this team.

Definitely! Would love to see them all updated and revisited.
Rather than continue to be an afterthought joiner of the JL, answering to Superman and Batman,
I'd rather see SHAZAM start and lead his own team.



AKA The Fawcett City Crusaders

Shazam (Billy)
Spy Smasher
Ms. Scarlet (my update above)
Ibis (I like the Daniel Khalifa update)
Bulletman & Bulletgirl/The Bulleteers (also updated costumes above (more Rocketeer-like))

Adding Kid Eternity and Captain Midnight(not sure if DC owns him) would be great too.

What I hate is Billy on the JL, always there as an afterthought, answering to Batman and Superman founders, especially if they are playing him as still a kid in a man's frame. Answering to them or awaiting their approval.
He should never need or seek that.

This is how DC (and some fans) have crushed Captain Marvel/Shazam, and made him not even a secondary, but near D list in the DC pantheon.

Billy should always be champion and leader of his own team and city.
Not joining theirs.

I'm glad for the movie they are for the most part so far developing him separate, as the champion of his own world.
Although if the fans get their way, Superman and Wonder Woman will soon show up to say they approve of him.
And instantly relegate him to subservient to them, and the fans will applaud and squee look Superman
and Batman approves! As the character is again cast and relegated to their shadow.

LOL rant!
Great team though.

[Nomads1]

AKA The Fawcett City Crusaders

Love this line-up. That's kind of what, IMHO, DC missed with the end of the multiverse (as much as I loved COIE an the unified DCU that came out of it). So many options to explore. Shazam and the Squadron of Justice. Earth X and the Freedom Fighters facing a world where the Nazis won WWII. The Charlton Heroes, the Sentinels of Justice, and their world of government intrigue. And so on...

Peace

[Shockingjustice]

Zeus / Power = Billy


Atlas / Stamina = Freddy



Mercury / Speed = Darla


Love all the cast, love the costume, (and that they didn't use blond Freddy), love the source material/story, both classic and new52 version they are using as the source material.
That humanized Billy, not born some impossibly perfect kid, but one who struggles, even lashes out, angry to belong to something a family again, for fear of losing them
Of course the story shows, it's what he wants all along is a family, and the desire to share with them, and belong to something bigger, very true to the classic character.

https://scontent-sin6-2.cdninstagram...19332608_n.jpg

My biggest concern/hope now is they don't turn Dr. Sivana (Mark Strong) into a brawler character. While he has explored that to hysterical effects, He should ultimately be the science guy, manipulating things behind the scenes.
And that in their big reveal it's Teth Adam (Dwayne Johnson) who shows up at the end to nab the power!
Prompting Billy to "share" it with his family, and the final big fight is between them and (not Sivana) but Adam.


And now they just need to launch the comic again!

What do you mean by Perfect kid?Wasn't Billy the only "perfect" kid. Practically every hero in DC has some tragic background/problem.

[Güicho]

Wasn't Billy the only "perfect" kid. Practically every hero in DC has some tragic background/problem.

Yeah and Billy was no exception.
Billy was thrown out by a greedy uncle who following the deaths of his parents, stole his inheritance too.
Even Batman didn't survive that, kept his inheritance, home and someone who loved him.. And Superman actually had adoptive parents that loved him and taught him right from wrong, that's all Clark Kent knew, is their love.
Billy had NONE of that.
Talk about "tragic background/problem" Geoff Johns & Gary Frank didn't add or make that up to make him tragic or grim, they just acknowledged that was always part of the character, Billy is one of the most tragic characters in comics history.
He didn't even know he had a twin sister. Everything was robed from him.

So the question (and story) becomes, how does he survive that?

What do you mean by Perfect kid?.

I mean considering his origin, it's not unrealistic for a kid to lash out, be angry, not want to belong or attach himself to anything, to a family, for fear of losing something he loved again.
That he wouldn't be just automatically perfect and "pure heart" and loving everyone, like in the original story, but maybe a little abrasive, bitter, self defensive, self destructive, and self serving, at first. Not so "perfect".
This update reads more human (to me).

He even tragically empathizes with the villain Teth Adam, who also lost his family and was betrayed, and resents the world. Billy sees (recognizes) himself in the villain.
Implication being; given the circumstances, and the path he is walking, he could even become the villain.
And the villain, given a different path, had he made a different choice, could have been a hero.
That is interesting to me, I get that.
These characters now live a bit more in the grey, they are more sympathetic.

Finally when it comes to it, Billy is able to do the one thing Teth Adam could never do, that is share the power.
And that is what ulltimalty separates him from you, me, the villain, not cause he's just automatically born "pure" and perfect, but by his choices, what he wanted and is surprisingly able to do.
To share the greatest gift with his new family, (what even the Wizard didn't see) what he secretly wanted most. What Teth (who is lost) could tragically never do.
That is the story.

That is what I mean, what makes Billy Batson interesting and a hero.

Does that make sense?

[dswynne]

Members of the SHAZAM! Family (empowered by the Wizard):

Billy, Mary, Freddy, Eugene, Pedro, Darla

Members of the Lt. Marvels (the SHAZAM! Family's auxiliary team, and non-powered allies based on MULTIVERSITY: THUNDERWORLD):

Uncle Freddy, Freckles, Tawny Tiger, Hill Billy, Tall Billy and Fat Billy

Members of the Squadron of Justice (allies to the SHAZAM! Family, but independent):

Bulleteer (Alix Harrower), Spy Smasher (Katrina Armstrong), Golden Arrow, Minute Man, Mister Scarlet (and Pinky) and Ibis the Invincible.

And there you go.

[SelinaK12]

I like your team!
Athough I feel the SHAZAMily powered Lieutenant Marvels (whatever we are calling them now?) Mary, Freddy, Eugene, Darla & Pedro, should reamin as a unique shazam-powered group that Billy only sometimes calls on, separate from his other main team.

That if Billy Shazam/Captain Marvel was to ever be a regular on: I'de want to see him in his own Shazam's Squadron of Justice/Fawcett City Crusaders.
Using updates of this team.


Shazam (Billy)
Spy Smasher
Ms. Scarlet (my update above)
Ibis (I like the Daniel Khalifa update)
Bulletman & Bulletgirl/The Bulleteers (also updated costumes above (more Rocketeer-like))

Adding Kid Eternity and Captain Midnight(not sure if DC owns him) would be great too.

What I hate is Billy on the JL, always there as an afterthought, answering to Batman and Superman founders, especially if they are playing him as still a kid in a man's frame. Answering to them or awaiting their approval.
He should never need or seek that.

This is how DC (and some fans) have crushed Captain Marvel/Shazam, and made him not even a secondary, but near D list in the DC pantheon.

Billy should always be champion and leader of his own team and city.
Not joining theirs.

I'm glad for the movie they are for the most part so far developing him separate, as the champion of his own world.
Although if the fans get their way, Superman and Wonder Woman will soon show up to say they approve of him.
And instantly relegate him to subservient to them, and the fans will applaud and squee look Superman
and Batman approves! As the character is again cast and relegated to their shadow.

LOL rant!
Great team though.

Yeah i think the foster kids should only be called when needed and I think one of billy weaknesses is being pushed around. He is the type of person who would stick up for everyone but himself

[Jekyll]

I am so excited for this movie, it looks like it’s going to be great. I only wish DC would capatalize on this by giving us a comic book series too..........

[Güicho]

Members of the Lt. Marvels .....

Uncle Freddy, Freckles, Tawny Tiger, Hill Billy, Tall Billy and Fat Billy

Uncle Freddy? ...That's Dudley.
\

I think one of billy weaknesses is being pushed around. He is the type of person who would stick up for everyone but himself

Classic Billy had no problem handling bullies...



Sticking up for himself and others.
And New Billy despite himself, when he sees Freddy, Mary and the other kids being picked on, as always steps up...

[Ares]

Mark Strong as Dr. Sivana is kind of interesting, as he did play a sort of Super Scientist in "The Kingsmen", and played a pretty effective villain in the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movie, so I think this could be a good thing. He isn't the ugly, shriveled, old Sivana of the comics, but he's a solid actor with a good track record.

As for the rest, the idea of adding the Nu-Shazam Family to the movie, that just kills even more of my enthusiasm for this, despite what I said a page or two earlier. The Curse of Shazam is, in my opinion, just a bad story, the worst portrayal of Billy Batson since "Shazam: A New Beginning", and tied for the worst thing to happen to the Marvel Family since "Trials of Shazam". If you're someone who liked the way Billy was portrayed in that story and the inclusion of Nu-Shazam Family, I'm not saying your opinion is wrong or bad, as clearly that portrayal and those characters were meant to appeal to some people and they clearly found an audience if they're being used. That or Geoff Johns still has plenty of pull at DC and they're going with his version of events.

But as a story, Curse of Shazam is a trainwreck, with the only person to come out of said story with any dignity being Mary Batson, whose portrayal I actually liked. Freddy was turned into a blonde thief for no real reason, the foster kids have really nothing in the way of personality, and the Wizard Shazam was basically portrayed as a broken, foolish old man. Black Adam lost pretty much all of the character bits that made him a compelling villain, Dr. Sivana was given an "extreme" upgrade with the lightning eye, but whose only after releasing Black Adam he basically stopped mattering to the story save for exposition. The Seven Deadly Enemies of Man/Sins are made out to be some big menace but don't really do anything but provide a convenient distraction for the Shazam Kids so that they can't help Billy with Adam.

Speaking of the Shazam kids and the film, putting the Nu-Shazam Family in the first movie has the same problem of including them in the Curse of Shazam origin story; namely that it's too much, too fast. When Cap first appeared, he was a solo hero for a couple of years, and then added Capt. Marvel Junior and Mary Marvel to the Family organically, and each of them were developed enough to immediately get their own series. Just like in Curse of Shazam, the other foster kids are going to take screen time away from Billy and the development he could be receiving, and not get enough screen time to really flesh them out as characters either, basically making them caricatures that are suppose to drive Billy's emotional development. It also doesn't help that they all have identical powers to Billy, even ignoring how "each kid embodies one aspect of the Shazam pact" devalues Billy as a hero. It's too much too soon, especially when you throw in trying to develop the villains while also trying to work an origin story in as well.

This is the movie that is suppose to introduce Billy and Cap to the larger audience who aren't familiar with his portrayal in comics and television. That's already a tall order, but throwing in 5 kids with the exact same powers and even attempting to flesh them all out is just asking for trouble. It'd be like making a Batman movie for an audience that had never heard of the character, but in the origin film try to also introduce Batgirl, Batwoman, Nightwing, the Red Hood and Robin all at the same time. It's possible they can pull it off, but the DCEU barely made Justice League work with the same number of heroes, and it had three previous films to introduce Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman.

[Ares]

Regarding “Billy being pushed around”, classic Billy never had trouble standing up for himself. Even in his earliest stories, the first time some older kids tried to bully him, Billy fought right back and handily trounced said bullies. Billy will stick up for everyone, himself included. He IS a very sweet and helpful kid though, so I'd say he can be kind of a pushover in the sense that if someone asks for help, he'll give it 9 times out of ten, regardless of his own plans. Because Billy is a good kid.

As for Nu-Billy, I just don’t think there’s another way to put it: he's a jerk. You can dress it up however you want, whether it’s Geoff Johns saying that Nu-Billy is “prickly” or that he’s just someone disappointed by life, pushing people away because it hurts too much to be part of a family again. But really, he’s a jerk. He's an angry, self-centered brat who mocks people who want to help him, pushes away those who want to befriend him, condescends to those who believe in higher values, is arrogant and cocky rather than merely confident, and has no problem bullying people he feels deserves it. His only redeeming qualities are the rare glimpses of wonder and genuine heroism we get amidst him behaving like a complete tool. I mean, I get it: Billy is a "bad boy" character who can still look like a puppy dog, so people overlook his problems in order to feel like they can "save" him and hope he turns out okay in the end. Young adult fiction is full of characters like that, which is part of the problem. They turned Billy into a dime-a-dozen angsty, emo teenager because "it's more realistic" than him being a good person after his tragedy.

The idea that it's "realistic" for a kid to become angry, angst-ridden, and anti-social after losing his parents is both accurate and misleading. There are people who go through that at a young age and are completely well adjusted, happy and okay. There are people who grow up in perfectly fine homes who become complete monsters. People are unique and respond to happiness and tragedy in different ways. Heck, there are kids who have had things much worse than Nu-Billy who are every bit as noble and good as classic Billy (Kesz Valdez). If anything, that's one thing that makes Nu-Billy less appealing: he's actually had a relatively better life than any other version of Billy Batson, yet he's the one that comes off as the most maladjusted. It's kind of sad when Mark Millar (someone whose stories can be downright nihilistic) essentially wrote a better Captain Marvel story than Geoff Johns with Superior.

So yeah, Billy losing everything and still being a friendly, big-big hearted kid is frankly just as realistic as Billy being an angry, "woe is me" brat. Geoff Johns just chose to focus on the latter because Johns frankly doesn't get the character and prefers his villains. And I wouldn't have nearly the problem with Nu-Billy if he was a completely original creation. An orphaned kid who is unfriendly, lashes out at people who want to help him, who gains great power and becomes both a hero and a better person thanks to the efforts of his foster family is a story worth exploring. I probably wouldn't read it because those types of characters are almost never allowed to evolve out of that state of jackassery (as Nu-Billy/Nu-Shazam has never been allowed to do), but then it'd just be another superhero going through a more douche-babby version of the Peter Parker Process, and it would just be a book I wouldn't follow as opposed to a portrayal I can't stand.

I mean, I want to watch something about a classic DC character being portrayed as an egotistical jerk who is dark, brooding, infantile and has a severe fear of connecting with people until his adoptive family help him become a better person, I’ll just watch the LEGO Batman movie. At least there it’s played for laughs rather than as serious melodrama.

Again, I'm not knocking people who like those kinds of characters. Some people prefer reading about Jason Todd over Dick Grayson or Tim Drake, and some people prefer Frank Castle over Steve Rogers. That's just a difference of taste. But when you start writing Steve Rogers as acting like Frank Castle, have Dick or Tim act like Jason, then you've got a problem. Which is the problem with Nu-Shazam: he's so different from Captain Marvel that I basically consider the two completely separate characters rather than a simple re-imagining.

And I have to laugh at anyone calling classic Billy anything resembling "perfect", since all they did was basically make Nu-Billy into Freddy Freeman with the emo dialed to 11 and put him in a blandly idealistic foster home. "Hey, we're a pair of blandly idealized foster parents living with our multi-ethnic foster kids, with narry a problem or personality to be found. Come join us, won't you?" "Your efforts to treat me with kindness make me seethe with generic angst. I clearly have no choice but to respond with cruel mockery". It's also kind of hilarious how classic Billy basically had empathy for everyone, while the only person Nu-Billy ever showed unconditional empathy for was Black Adam, and only when he thought Adam was a kid like him. "Wow, a kid who grew up in a bad situation, who is angry and violent, has no regard for others and likes to beat people up! He's just like me!" He almost comes off as a parody of the worst aspects of Millennials.

Classic Billy was "incorruptible" in that he'd never use his powers for evil, but apart from that he was just a sweet kid with a good sense of humor and empathy who wore his big heart on his sleeve. He got angry, he got sad, he was occasionally melancholy about his lost family, he sometimes struggled with the responsibilities his young shoulders had to bear, but in the end, his optimism, sense of wonder and hope for a better tomorrow would always win out. As I've said, he is basically Steve Rogers from the Marvel Captain America films, but with Spider-Man's sense of humor and relatability, with a little injection of wonder and enthusiasm. And given the success of the Captain America films, I'm not sure how anyone would call Steve Rogers (who basically had things just as hard as Billy) is unrealistic or uninteresting. Classic Billy is a far more intriguing character to me, because I find characters with the inner strength to rise above a bad situation and remain a good person to be much more interesting and inspiring.

I consider classic Billy/Cap to be every bit as iconic a character as Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman, but I feel he adds some interesting contrast to them. Clark grew up on an idyllic farm with good parents, spent his teenage years with bunch of kids just like him in the future, has the powers of a living god and is the most beloved hero on the planet. Diana grew up the beloved princess on an island literally called "paradise", raised with love and a unique philosophy, also has the powers of a living god. Bruce suffered the same tragedy as Billy, but was also a multi-billionaire who had a loyal father figure that helped him train to become the world's most dangerous man and greatest detective and crime fighter. Billy lost his family, his home, his life as he knew it at a young age, but he found the strength to keep going and not fall into despair, and instead found a great empathy for everyone around him. He earned his powers by suffering the hardships he did and rising above them rather than letting them drag him down. He splits his time evenly between being a normal kid, with normal friends, interests and past-times, and being a superpowered demi-god keeping the world (which he considers one big extended family) safe.

In a sense, Billy is less naive than Clark and Diana, having dealt with tragedies and circumstances they haven't and also having a very realistic understanding of people. At the same time, he's far more optimistic than Bruce, having never let his circumstances get him down. He's also far less privileged than any of them, having had to live alone as an orphan for years and slowly build up everything he has. Even his powers are less of a gift than a reward for who he is. Billy can also relate to normal people in a way that Bruce and Diana sometimes have trouble with, and in a way that even Clark sometimes struggles with. Billy's humanity, empathy and personality help him contrast against the other great heroes of DC. In a sense, I think there is less of a degree of separation between Cap and normal people, the way there often is with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and even folks like Captain America. You could see Cap stop some bad guys, and then just chat casually with the cops and civilians after about normal things like sports. Cap should be someone who immediately puts everyone at ease and makes them feel like they can talk to him like he was just "one of us".