Captain Marvel / Shazam Appreciaton

[phantom1592]

First SHAZAM! TV spot.. Nothing that new, mostly just a re-edit of previous footage.

I am really looking forward to this show... and I REALLY hope that lightning bolt plays better on the big screen. It's just a little too... mundane? It looks to me like some Cosplayer put a 9volt battery in his belt and an LED panel on his chest.


It doesn't scream out 'POWERED BY THE GODS!!' like I think they were going for... Don't love it in the books either, but at least there it looks like the energy is just crackling out of it all the time. This... doesn't. :-/


C"MON CAP!!! Your pretty much my last hope for DCEU!

[J. D. Guy]

Wow, that was harsh LOL! Not sure why you directed that at me?
Since if you actually read what I wrote I'm saying they need to read the whole story to get it.
And emphasized what they are missing.
I was however, also trying to be a bit more empathetic (i guess that's a sin here) to the reviewer, and SilverWarriorWolf who posted the review, in recognizing the Billy as portrayed in the first few issues is hard to like, and I can understand why that turned some off.
However I also clearly pointed out.
Which you completely ignore I said, in your reply to me.

When pointing out that they hadn't read the whole story and why they should, was my main criticism of the review, as well as to SilverWarriorWolf who has admitted he never actually read beyond the first few issues.
Yet he continues to be one it's harshest critics across these boards.

Maybe direct a bit of your hostility there. LOL!

I apologize if my passion for the issue came off as harsh and disrespectful. That wasn't my intention.

I replied to you because yours was the one who first brought up that bit about feeling the writers failed in the early bit of the story with making Billy so acerbic. Also, I was largely calling out the review and its reviewer, of which I mistakenly thought that the reviewer's thoughts were relayed through your post, which is also why I made my response to it.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding and also for my tone. On a different note, sorry for my post's typos, as that likely didn't help any, either.

(Empathy is fine, important, in fact, but the reviewer really did do himself a disservice not reading the whole story and then looking down on it without having done so.)

[J. D. Guy]

Really don't agree with that at all. This is a newer mentality that I just don't get behind. These aren't novels. They aren't movies. They aren't something that has earned the kind of Loyalty and patience. These are sequential magazines. The writers have one job and that is to tell an interesting story that delivers every month and makes the customer come back next month for the next part.

There are a lot of stories out there that do not deliver on that. If a writer is failing to connect with his audience and is writing a 12 issue epic where parts 1,2,3, 5, and 8 are boring to tears... it isn't the readers fault for walking away. Maybe it's a fine story... maybe that's the story that the writer really wanted to tell... but if that's not what the audience wants to read, then the writer is failing the company he's working for and the books get cancelled.


I remember similar conversations about Final Crisis and Morrison. If you didn't like it or you didn't 'get it'.... than it was on you and he was writing for himself... But no, It was advertised as a DC epic crossover and climax to the Crisis trilogy. That wasn't what we got.

Not saying any of this applies to THIS story. It had a few flaws I didn't like (no mention of the gods, sharing the power with too many people, Freddy being blonde... etc.) but overall it was pretty solid.

It doesn't have to be a grand piece of literature, though. And I don't believe something like loyalty factors in. It's about a general sense of patience, and how many of the readers I am referring to did not have it. So much so that they have and still are making ill-informed and outright erroneous opinions and scathing criticisms, over 6-7 years later, in direct contradiction with the truth that they did not even read through the story and didn't even give the story the chance to be read through.

Really, my issue lies with how they rage-quit the book and spewed forth very toxic opinions that have dealt their damage, still visible to this day, as if those opinions were fully informed and taken from the story, which, once more, they did not finish because they had rage-quit it before it really could even begin. Perhaps if they did not come off as if they had read the whole thing, or weren't so incessant about it, it would not have left the bad taste in my mouth that it did.

It's one thing to drop a story you feel isn't your cup of tea or you feel won't likely grow on you or something like that. It's another beast altogether to rage-quit and then bash an incomplete story and its writer for years on end, long after it has been completed, that you didn't even fully read, bringing up complaints that make no sense under scrutiny in the context of the full story.

[phantom1592]

It doesn't have to be a grand piece of literature, though. And I don't believe something like loyalty factors in. It's about a general sense of patience, and how many of the readers I am referring to did not have it. So much so that they have and still are making ill-informed and outright erroneous opinions and scathing criticisms, over 6-7 years later, in direct contradiction with the truth that they did not even read through the story and didn't even give the story the chance to be read through.

Really, my issue lies with how they rage-quit the book and spewed forth very toxic opinions that have dealt their damage, still visible to this day, as if those opinions were fully informed and taken from the story, which, once more, they did not finish because they had rage-quit it before it really could even begin. Perhaps if they did not come off as if they had read the whole thing, or weren't so incessant about it, it would not have left the bad taste in my mouth that it did.

It's one thing to drop a story you feel isn't your cup of tea or you feel won't likely grow on you or something like that. It's another beast altogether to rage-quit and then bash an incomplete story and its writer for years on end, long after it has been completed, that you didn't even fully read, bringing up complaints that make no sense under scrutiny in the context of the full story.

How much patience is expected though?

I spent a LOT of money trying to support a Daredevil Comic... pretty much the entire bendis run and most of Brubaker's (It started out better... but then ended with him leading the Hand... and Shadowland) Basically 2002-2008 because it was on my pull list. I loved the character and I had been collecting it for decades. But I came to realize that I hated everything about those long drawn out stories where nothing happened or the story telling wasn't good. I spent WAY more money then I'm comfortable counting believing that it'll all end well and I'll enjoy it as a whole... and I never did.


Steve Rogers as classic Captain America... no Bucky, no Falcon, no hydra, no old steve… That's something we hadn't seen since Civil War in 2006. Thor has been 'unworthy' since 2014...


At what point SHOULD you rage quit a story you don't enjoy? Especially if in this case it was a backup story to a team you may not have enjoyed. $4 a pop for 7 or so pages... That's asking a lot.


Some stories and some formats... the long game is the WRONG way to write it. Don't wait for part 6 to show what you want to hook the readers with in part one. If you are writing a classic familiar Shazam/Billy... and present him in a way that will chase long time fans away only to surprise them in part 5 or 6.... then that's bad planning. They have to get hooked every issue. If the fans drift away, retaliate or rage quit... then it's because the story didn't do what you wanted it to do.

In the 90's the first Power of Shazam was released as a TPB... If you want to write something that needs the whole story in hand to 'understand'... maybe they should have done that here too. They DID collect the backups in it's own TPB and it was the first time I read it and yeah... it read well that way. But I probably wouldn't have stuck with it in just the first parts either.

Granted I also wouldn't have trashed things online. I'm more of a 'Scream about what I want' then I am 'Trash everything else around me' mentality

[J. D. Guy]

How much patience is expected though?

I spent a LOT of money trying to support a Daredevil Comic... pretty much the entire bendis run and most of Brubaker's (It started out better... but then ended with him leading the Hand... and Shadowland) Basically 2002-2008 because it was on my pull list. I loved the character and I had been collecting it for decades. But I came to realize that I hated everything about those long drawn out stories where nothing happened or the story telling wasn't good. I spent WAY more money then I'm comfortable counting believing that it'll all end well and I'll enjoy it as a whole... and I never did.


Steve Rogers as classic Captain America... no Bucky, no Falcon, no hydra, no old steve… That's something we hadn't seen since Civil War in 2006. Thor has been 'unworthy' since 2014...


At what point SHOULD you rage quit a story you don't enjoy? Especially if in this case it was a backup story to a team you may not have enjoyed. $4 a pop for 7 or so pages... That's asking a lot.


Some stories and some formats... the long game is the WRONG way to write it. Don't wait for part 6 to show what you want to hook the readers with in part one. If you are writing a classic familiar Shazam/Billy... and present him in a way that will chase long time fans away only to surprise them in part 5 or 6.... then that's bad planning. They have to get hooked every issue. If the fans drift away, retaliate or rage quit... then it's because the story didn't do what you wanted it to do.

In the 90's the first Power of Shazam was released as a TPB... If you want to write something that needs the whole story in hand to 'understand'... maybe they should have done that here too. They DID collect the backups in it's own TPB and it was the first time I read it and yeah... it read well that way. But I probably wouldn't have stuck with it in just the first parts either.

Granted I also wouldn't have trashed things online. I'm more of a 'Scream about what I want' then I am 'Trash everything else around me' mentality

I don't know how to respond to this, honestly. In truth, I'm sorry your experience was as bad as it was with those runs and you were left feeling buyer's remorse.

However, I do not see it as equivalently applicable to this situation with the New 52 Shazam story, which wasn't nearly as long and "widespread" (for lack of a more accurate term) than I suspect those runs were. Perhaps there's a "you had to been there" (but it's good if you missed the biggest brunt of it, where you'd risk getting flamed for saying you liked it), but it was a combination of the rage-quitting, combined with uninformed opinions and hate that came after. The baggage brought on from haters of the New 52 just made it "acceptable" and left the environment unchallenged. As I said, those complaints go past not feeling the story is their cup of tea, and would have been remedied if those making them had given the story the chance to tell itself and avoided misreading what they did read and holding onto grudges.

You could even argue the story reads better in trade (which would be a sound argument to make), but then similar issues still crop up and grudges are still held fast.

It has gotten better in most recent memory, but the New 52 Shazam story is still largely underrated and still judged from that knee-jerk, rage-quitted perspective.

[Rise]

Really enjoyed N52 Shazam by Johns and looking forward to the new run in November.

[Rod G]

Really enjoyed N52 Shazam by Johns and looking forward to the new run in November.

You and me both, Rise.

You and me both.

[Güicho]

Wow they are really pushing the powered up magic-Sivana for the film, and as a counterpart brawler to SHAZAM.

I know Sivana has pursued Magic even gotten powered up before.
But I prefer him as the classic mad scientist, cleverly working behind the scenes and getting or manipulating others to do his fighting.

So powered up, he's very much reading as a hybrid of Sivana and Adam.
That catching a punch scene above^ , is almost exact from the N52 Shazam, they just switched Adam with Sivana.
Now seeing him cary a magic staff?
Is that the actual Wizard's staff?



In Johns' and Frank's N52 Sivana has a hand in releasing Teth Adam, and is exposed to magic, hence his "blinded" eye, which actually allows him to see magic?
Yet it's Adam, and the released Deadly Sins who are the main big 3rd act actual physical fight.
Not Sivana, who is mostly manipulating things.
It's a little weird seeing Sivana forced into this lead brawler role and pushing him as a straight magic user.

SHAZAM 52 END.jpg


Hopefully it reads right in the film.

[SilverWarriorWolf]

Wow they are really pushing the powered up magic-Sivana for the film, and as a counterpart brawler to SHAZAM.

I know Sivana has pursued even gotten powered up before.
But I prefer him as the classic mad scientist, cleverly working behind the scenes and getting or manipulating others to do his fighting.

So powered up, he's very much reading as a hybrid of Sivana and Adam.
That catching a punch scene above^ , is almost exact from the N52 Shazam, they just switched Adam with Sivana.
Now seeing him cary a magic staff?
Is that the actual Wizard's staff?



In Johns' and Franks N52 Sivana has a hand in releasing Teth Adam, and is exposed to magic, hence his "blinded" eye, which actually allows him to see magic?
Yet it's Adam, and the released Deadly Sins who are the main big 3rd act actual physical fight.
Not Sivana, who is mostly manipulating things.
It's a little weird seeing Sivana forced into this lead brawler role and pushing him as a straight magic user.

Hopefully it reads right in the film.

Well, Sivana in Multiversity: Thunderworld usurped the Rock of Eternity and started manipulating magic. Maybe they’re blending that in with the new 52 base.

[MajorHoy]

The Late-Great Don Newton. My All-Time favorite artist for Cap and Batman.

From Shazam! #1 (February 1973), the first issue of DC's revival of Captain Marvel in a regular series:


and from Shazam! #34 (March-April 1978), the next-to-last issue of that run:


issue #35 (May-June 1978), the final issue of that series, would be the start of Don Newton's run (which would next move to being a feature in World's Finest Comics).

[SelinaK12]

i love how the marvel family were written in world finest comics

[Zero Hunter]

Wow they are really pushing the powered up magic-Sivana for the film, and as a counterpart brawler to SHAZAM.

I know Sivana has pursued Magic even gotten powered up before.
But I prefer him as the classic mad scientist, cleverly working behind the scenes and getting or manipulating others to do his fighting.

I liked how they did it in the Nu52 comics where the power itself is what twisted him into the small frail man. He starts out big and buff and the power burns him out leaving him looking more like the classic Dr. Sivana. To me it creates more of a reason why Sivana really hates Shazam too.

[Robotman]

Sivanna’s role is the one aspect that kind worries me about the movie. It seems like he’s less of the classic mad scientist and more like a stand in for Black Adam. There’s a rumor that this version of Sivanna was almost granted the power of Shazam when he was a kid but was passed over by the Wizard, so now he holds a grudge.

[Jabare]

Will see haven't been following things too much. The one curious element I've noticed from the trailers is that normal Billy Batson seems more mature than Shazam (Captain Marvel)

[Frontier]

Will see haven't been following things too much. The one curious element I've noticed from the trailers is that normal Billy Batson seems more mature than Shazam (Captain Marvel)

I think as a kid Billy is more reserved and less approachable, but his real personality doesn't show until he transforms into his Superhero form.